EU4 - Development Diary - 13th of December 2016

[CharlesII]

You still have to purchase your unique ability, right ? So the Ottomans won't instantly get their 33% siege speed bonus, they'll have to purchase it ?

Yeah, and if they don't reach their historical greatness, then they won't even recieve it.

 

[rho]

I very much like the idea behind this. Trying to use the same set of rules to simulate 1820 as 1444 has always been one of EU's biggest difficulties, and this absolutely opens a way to address that. I also very much like the bonuses for specific countries, as it feels like a much more nuanced version of lucky nations, potentially allowing for more organic rise and fall throughout the game.

I am, however, worried about the transitions between the ages. I am not really comfortable with the idea of new ages starting always on specific dates. I would much rather that they take into account what's actually going on in the game. Even if it's just "when the first country discovers technology x" which is going to always happen on or around a given date, just that little bit of extra variance and unpredictability would make everything seem more natural.

I'm also worried about the suddenness of the change, and would much rather see the old bonuses gradually decay over a period of a few years. Institutions were great in this respect, because when they first fire, they do basically nothing; it's only as time passes that they become ever increasingly more important. Incremental changes feel so much more natural to me than sudden ones.

 

[Comartin38]

Perhaps a country can only get a special ability only once. @Johan can you tell us if a country can have two special habilities?

If a country can only get a special ability only once, I guess:

Reformation: Castile/Spain, PLC, Mughal, Persia
Absolutism: France, Sweden, Netherlands, Manchu
Revolutions: England, Austria, Russia, Prussia

 

[Douglas Uppity]

I think you mean:

Reformation : Ottomans, Castile/Spain, Austria, ?
Absolutism : Ottomans, France, Netherlands, PLC, Sweden
Revolutions : Ottomans, France, England, Russia, Prussia

Quite possible. Paradox seems to have a real hard-on for the green beast the last few patches. But only time will tell, i guess.

 

[Shock360]

Quite possible. Paradox seems to have a real hard-on for the green beast the last few patches. But only time will tell, i guess.

And you don't think this would be a perfect way to emulate their fall(nerf their base hard and make up for it with bonuses in ages so that the bonuses will fade)?

 

[Gamengervi]

You are quite right. That is actually something that we have discussed here earlier and I intend to flip the order of the age icons when my schedule permits. Well spotted.

Thanks for the reply, but who're you?

Edit: Sorry if that sounded rude, I didn't mean it to if it did.

 

[JCivX]

I very much like the idea behind this. Trying to use the same set of rules to simulate 1820 as 1444 has always been one of EU's biggest difficulties, and this absolutely opens a way to address that. I also very much like the bonuses for specific countries, as it feels like a much more nuanced version of lucky nations, potentially allowing for more organic rise and fall throughout the game.

I am, however, worried about the transitions between the ages. I am not really comfortable with the idea of new ages starting always on specific dates. I would much rather that they take into account what's actually going on in the game. Even if it's just "when the first country discovers technology x" which is going to always happen on or around a given date, just that little bit of extra variance and unpredictability would make everything seem more natural.

I'm also worried about the suddenness of the change, and would much rather see the old bonuses gradually decay over a period of a few years. Institutions were great in this respect, because when they first fire, they do basically nothing; it's only as time passes that they become ever increasingly more important. Incremental changes feel so much more natural to me than sudden ones.

I agree with this 100%. Arbitrary cut-off dates just seem pretty out of place and making it slightly more gradual and "masking" the cut-off dates like you suggested by linking it to a technology level is a good idea. It won't have much of an impact on the actual mechanics but makes the immersion much better.

Not sure what to think about this at the moment. More flavor is always good and I like the idea of breaking it down to ages. However, right now it seems it's just more bonuses from "side quests" that you'd do half the time anyway. I'm hoping there is more to it. If the era system will be linked to the existing gameplay mechanics like estates, even warfare etc. then it has the potential to elevate EU4 to the next level. It won't happen in this expansion but within a year it could be really, really sweet. However, if the eras are a paid feature then that is pretty much out the window and we are just left with a side quest mechanic with more minor bonuses to medium-to-large sized countries which feels pretty underwhelming. Since this is just the first diary, I'm hoping we'll learn in future dev diaries that the eras will be integrated into the other mechanics instead of future diaries just being "these are the bonuses for this era".

 

[durbal]

I very much like the idea behind this. Trying to use the same set of rules to simulate 1820 as 1444 has always been one of EU's biggest difficulties, and this absolutely opens a way to address that. I also very much like the bonuses for specific countries, as it feels like a much more nuanced version of lucky nations, potentially allowing for more organic rise and fall throughout the game.

I am, however, worried about the transitions between the ages. I am not really comfortable with the idea of new ages starting always on specific dates. I would much rather that they take into account what's actually going on in the game. Even if it's just "when the first country discovers technology x" which is going to always happen on or around a given date, just that little bit of extra variance and unpredictability would make everything seem more natural.

I'm also worried about the suddenness of the change, and would much rather see the old bonuses gradually decay over a period of a few years. Institutions were great in this respect, because when they first fire, they do basically nothing; it's only as time passes that they become ever increasingly more important. Incremental changes feel so much more natural to me than sudden ones.

Exactly. And these triggers are already in the game.

Age of Reformation: two centers of reformation exist.
Age of Absolutism: a country changes government to Absolute Monarchy
Age of Revolutions: revolutionary rebels appear

Instead the system seems backward -- the age decides when certain actions can take place (such a revolutionary rebels spawning) rather than having those random events decide the ages.

Should be an easy fix and IMO would make the whole thing much more palatable.

 

[wingzero890]

'Inspired' by Endless Legend, no doubt

Good addition to the game though, especially the Age of Revolutions. The lack of endgame mechanics in EU4 is sorta appalling right now.

 

[net.split]

Do you think it's a good idea to let players have some control over when the ages end? For instance you could force switch to Absolutism with the above suggestion by changing to Absolute Monarchy yourself, even at huge MP cost, in order to deny a rival bonuses they've earned.

That seems really awkward and even more game-y IMO.

 

[Kryndude]

Hmm, I don't know about the arbitrary distinction of ages, especially since EU4 is supposed to permit deviance from the real historical path, but I really like the idea of each stages of the game playing differently. Could this be the day I finally get to go past mid 1600s and experience revolution mechanics? I'm excited

 

[LinusLinothorax]

I expected something different from "The greatest addition since the launch of the game" than just an other mechanic that only really works with European tags. 3 years since the release of the game, still no minor religions / cultures and custom mechanics for ROTW-tags,

 

[Shadowstrike]

I'm a little concerned about this, because it's intrinsically Euro-centric. The 1500s were defined by the Reformation - in Europe. For the Americas, it was defined by smallpox. For Japan, the Segoku Jidai. For India, the Mughals. For the Middle East, the rise of the Ottomans. Even if you made the goals more flexible so everyone could get them, you'd still have the problem of imposing the idea of Discovery, Reformation, Absolutism or Revolution on places that didn't have the same issues.

 

[aantia]

How does this interact with the ck2 save converter? Is there any dynamic alteration based on the state of affairs at game start?

 

[Ayoub13Berrahel]

Since the fort system I was always doubtful of new game mechanics being introduced, and the jury is still put on the Institutions, but this looks great, except making the Ottomans more OP hopefully that's changed.
Also with the abdicate feature Ming in all of my games never explodes because they get rid of their bad heirs hopefully that's fixed too

 

[SpARtaNer 43]

this game is still europa universalis (at least last time i checked) and not rotw universalis or asia universalis or little american opm universalis.
the countries that are the most played are in europe. so it is reasonable to make new features for those important tags.
i hope asia will get real flavour sometime but when it does it won't be half-hearted. it should be a major overhaul to the whole region.

and this game is about history and it represents a dynamic development of the known history so a bit railroading is unavoidable. brandenburg would have never been a colonial nation or ottomans will 95% of the time be a huge blob because of the circumstances of the start date( no actual opponent in their way to stop them conquoring the middle east and northern africa, etc).


and as he said [probably be the biggest feature added to the game since we started EU4/QUOTE]. feature not overhaul or remake. and i think different ages which feel different from each other could be one of the biggest features ever like the tech overhaul last patch.

and the is the second diary on the new expansion so there will be way more new stuff and balance and AI improvements and so on.

and never forget you dont need to buy this expansion and you can always go back to your beloved non-railroading corruptionless and blobby days of patch 1.9

 

[DDRussian]

A few things that I was wondering:
How moddable will this system be?
Can we mod in new goals and bonuses for this system?
Can the window be extended or include a scroll bar to easily have more goals and bonuses than in the window they showed?

Also, it would be really cool if countries got different sets of free ideas for each age, or at least new ones unlockable for some of the ages (i.e. Spain in the age of Discovery, France in the Age of Revolutions, etc. to match the changes in their society)
And if not new national ideas, maybe add new idea groups that can only be obtained in certain ages. I don't mean restrict existing ones, just add new ones and split up some existing ones, such as splitting humanism between the Renaissance-era humanist ideas and those of the enlightenment.

 

[TorquemadaStark]

How will american nations get a capital in the new world? They don't even have boats! How will they have territory in 2 continents?

Seriouly Pdx, just limit nations choice to Europe. Right now you're just shaming yourself.

ROTW has always been hard mode. American nations were always super hard mode. Have you even played EU3? Back then, we (and the Ming) had to westernise FIVE times over. Oh, and after that, we had to modernise - which was another huge stab hit. And our units outright sucked in comparison to Europeans. Now THAT was a hardcore challenge. And now you're asking for ROTW to be as easy as Europe in this time scale? Look, there are these countries out there to be a challenge. I want them to be challenging. They SHOULD be challenging. That's where the true hard mode lies. It would be an offense to every competent gamer if they'd completely equalise all countries. And it just so happens that during this time period, Europeans come to dominate. (Well, they actually do so super heavily in Vicky 2 era, but I've heard tumbl crybabies complain about the european domination there as well.) Sure, it's not fair. Yes, it is Eurocentric. Why? Because history happened to be Eurocentric in this time period.

Even though, China deserves a mention - they only got screwed by never drinking much wine, thus not using glass, thus not coming up with glasses, which lead to an increase of productive life span for learned men in Europe - you could work for 10 - 15 years longer than previously, which in turn, lead to faster scientific advancement, which lead to China falling behind, really.

So, you know, Americans should get mechanics that make them interesting to play - of which they have plenty - but shouldn't get mechanics that make them easy. They've gotten INSANE buffs, when compared to EU3 already. And I played them quite a lot back then. And succeeded.

 

[durbal]

Do you think it's a good idea to let players have some control over when the ages end? For instance you could force switch to Absolutism with the above suggestion by changing to Absolute Monarchy yourself, even at huge MP cost, in order to deny a rival bonuses they've earned.

That seems really awkward and even more game-y IMO.

Ok, make them triggered by two ore more nations then to remove the influence of a single player. Problem alleviated.

But yeah, in general I think player agency and macro strategy are good things.

 

[PsychoLold]

Yeah, and if they don't reach their historical greatness, then they won't even recieve it.

It seems very easy for ottomans to get an 'Ability' as Ottomans. If they simply conquer Constantinople and develop it 7 times they already have a monthly growth of 7 splendor: 1 Base + 3 "Present on Two Continents" + 3 "A Large City". An ability costs 800 splendor, so Ottos will get to buy one every 10 years almost from the start just for holding on to their provinces and developing Constantinople a little. This alone is enough to buy all abilities over time.
Edit: Turns out Asia Minor isn't in Asia.