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What is the best of the current paradox strategy games?

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CK2 is probably the best game nowadays but it reached its limits as a strategy game. The team considers it a RP game so it may be intentional. I love Vicky but she's just too old :( MotE would be a great game, probably the best non ww2 war focused game Paradox did. Stellaris is a great game, but only ok as Grand Strategy. HoI4 is HoI, a fantastic game but purely war driven, we can barely classify it as Grand Strategy. EUIV is a great game and still have enough time and space to mature.

So CK2 is the current best strategy game, but my bet is that EUIV will be a greater game - in grand strategy terms - than CK2 is now and that Hoi4 and Stellaris won't be able to surpass it.
 
CK2 peaked, probably after Charlie. The DLC since have been pretty disappointing and only contribute to fringe parts of the game (i.e. hordes and disease). They also annoyed a large number of players by forcing things out of nowhere that we didn't want into the base game like AE and shattered retreats. It took an enormous outcry to beat that back.
 
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heliostellar said:
Nope, not the royal "we." Just the 200+ people who "respectfully disagreed" with the dev diary that described it.
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Fun fact, all the people who disagree with dev posts are one person who is always wrong, as evidenced by thinking that somehow constitutes a consensus of a wider player base. There's just no way there's more than one person who thinks that in any reality that makes sense.

EDIT: shattered retreat generally makes quite a lot of sense, and prevents silly "decisive battles". But it comes up regularly from people with super strong opinions on video games.
 
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ModZero said:
Fun fact, all the people who disagree with dev posts are one person who is always wrong, as evidenced by thinking that somehow constitutes a consensus of a wider player base. There's just no way there's more than one person who thinks that in any reality that makes sense.

EDIT: shattered retreat generally makes quite a lot of sense, and prevents silly "decisive battles". But it comes up regularly from people with super strong opinions on video games.
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I don't really understand what you're saying about one person being wrong.

Read some of the Steam ratings for Conclave and look at the user reviews. I am not alone in my disdain for that patch. And yes, I realize these were free patch changes, but many people took that out on the DLC's reviews. Regardless, it was an unnecessary and unwelcome change to the game that had done just fine without it for 4 years.
 
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heliostellar said:
I don't really understand what you're saying about one person being wrong.
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:[

heliostellar said:
Read some of the Steam ratings for Conclave and look at the user reviews.
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Like, if I were doing sales in a tiny company then I'd care. Otherwise I just assume it's the same one person who disagreed 200 times with a dev post and dropped NMS ratings so low.

heliostellar said:
I am not alone in my disdain for that patch. And yes, I realize these were free patch changes, but many people took that out on the DLC's reviews. Regardless, it was an unnecessary and unwelcome change to the game that had done just fine without it for 4 years.
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Okay, fine, yes I didn't literally mean you were alone (though I doubt you actually believe I did, and you're just being facetious, just like me, just in a less fun way). It might have been unwelcome and unnecessary to you and some other people (who were wrong and tend to go give games negative reviews on steam, but I repeat myself) but while it might be a surprise to you, other people actually exist and think the changes were just fine.
 
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lukesilveira said:
Shattered retreats are bad but so is the entire battle system in most paradox games. Shattered retreat is necessary, considering that.
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Shattered retreats aren't the worst thing in the world. Adding AE was what got most of the disdain.
 
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ModZero said:
It might have been unwelcome and unnecessary to you and some other people (who were wrong and tend to go give games negative reviews on steam, but I repeat myself) but while it might be a surprise to you, other people actually exist and think the changes were just fine.
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Well, I've been around these forums a long time and I've seen anything never quite like this on a dev diary:

3ucWTX4.png


https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/dev-diary-11-stopping-the-snowball.896247/
 
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heliostellar said:
Well, I've been around these forums a long time and I've seen anything never quite like this on a dev diary:
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(last of me here, because I'm sure this is super boring to everyone else here)

Look, 312 vs 230 + 40 isn't "obvious consensus", even if you ignore how horribly negative people who play games can be. I've been in the general gaming community long enough to say that looks like Tuesday.
 
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heliostellar said:
Shattered retreats aren't the worst thing in the world. Adding AE was what got most of the disdain.
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That's from all the "must blob harder" crowd. They also dislike common sense things like the vassal and demesne limits that have been around much longer and serve a similar purpose. The reality is it was extremely difficult to rule any sort of vast realms back then but any mechanics introduced to make the game more realistic in that regard generate massive waves of forum tears...
 
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EU4
CK2
Vic2
Stellaris
HOI4

Is the order of my list. I really think Stellaris and HOI4 were not well done.
 
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silentsam5 said:
EU4
CK2
Vic2
Stellaris
HOI4

Is the order of my list. I really think Stellaris and HOI4 were not well done.
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Considering how much Stellaris is ripping off from MOO2, it really should have been released in a better state. Namely, it should have had global food and more variety in terms of play styles.
 
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CK2. it's more satisfying and personal when I erase Sweden from the map...

CK2 have a also a ton of mods (even porn:p) and large total conversions mods like Warhammer and Game of Thrones
 
silentsam5 said:
EU4
CK2
Vic2
Stellaris
HOI4

Is the order of my list. I really think Stellaris and HOI4 were not well done.
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Both Stellaris and HOI4 felt like Early Access games to me, with all that entails in terms of bugs and general lack of features.
 
heliostellar said:
Considering how much Stellaris is ripping off from MOO2, it really should have been released in a better state. Namely, it should have had global food and more variety in terms of play styles.
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MOO2 sounds like a cow based space game. I really think Stellaris' issue is its redundant nature. Replayability is not as possible as in other Paradox titles

lakrids404 said:
CK2. it's more satisfying and personal when I erase Sweden from the map...

CK2 have a also a ton of mods (even porn:p) and large total conversions mods like Warhammer and Game of Thrones
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If you're using those kinds of mods in CK2, you need a hobby :)

bitmapmedivh said:
Both Stellaris and HOI4 felt like Early Access games to me, with all that entails in terms of bugs and general lack of features.
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HOI4 just wasn't fun for me. I like HOI2 and Darkest Hour in terms of balance between micromanagement and AI controlled. HOI4 was pretty much set things up a little then let the AI do everything halfheartedly. I think Darkest Hour is my all-time favorite strategy game, and I think HOI4 should have tried to go back to, maybe, a HOI2/DH like game in terms of how it plays with much better graphics.
 
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