Paradox Business Strategy

[SacremPyrobolum]

So from what I've been seeing with CK2 and EU4 is that Paradox is choosing to release a bajilion expansion packs and DLC for all their games and supporting it for a long long time like the Sims. Is this true?

If so, a tragedy that Victoria II never got this treatment

 

[AndrewT]

This model originated with CK2, FYI. Which is now 5 years old and still receiving new content!

 

[Cagliostro]

This is generally how they behave. And Victoria 2 did get actively supported for quite a bit if I recall properly. The problem with Victoria is that it never took off like those games, so the economics wasn't there to release expansion after expansion.

 

[SacremPyrobolum]

This is generally how they behave. And Victoria 2 did get actively supported for quite a bit if I recall properly. The problem with Victoria is that it never took off like those games, so the economics wasn't there to release expansion after expansion.

Really? I was under the impression that Vicky 2 brought in a lot of new people.

I hope this business strategy will eventually lead to Pdox creating an alternative to the Sims. Cities Skylines found success by capitalizing on the newest Sim City being a shitty game (and by being itself a good game, of course). Now with all the discontent over 4 they should strike again.

 

[Cagliostro]

Really? I was under the impression that Vicky 2 brought in a lot of new people.

My impression was that for a variety of reasons it never really caught on, with too much complexity and a relatively small time period for an expansion game that isn't primarily a war game. I think Paradox forum people like Victoria a lot more than the general public did. We *want* it to be a success, obviously, but math still exists.

There were two expansions (I think Victoria 1 had one?), but it definitely is far from their best-seller.

 

[SacremPyrobolum]

My impression was that for a variety of reasons it never really caught on, with too much complexity and a relatively small time period for an expansion game that isn't primarily a war game. I think Paradox forum people like Victoria a lot more than the general public did. We *want* it to be a success, obviously, but math still exists.

There were two expansions (I think Victoria 1 had one?), but it definitely is far from their best-seller.

It was the most successful of the "old" games (HoI III, EU3, CK1). CK2's success blew it out of the water though.

 

[Cagliostro]

Well, V2 was apparently still getting patches in 2015, so it was supported until fairly recently.

 

[SacremPyrobolum]

Well, V2 was apparently still getting patches in 2015, so it was supported until fairly recently.

Not nearly to the extent of CK2 or EU4. It only got two noteworthy expansions, House Divided and Heart of Darkness.

 

[Cagliostro]

Heart of Darkness came out in 2013, so presumably it did not sell well.

 

[Samman666]

Chances are if Vicky 2 got the modern Paradox DLC treatment the end product would be objectively better. CK2 and EU4 are both significantly better than they were on release date and I can't really see a Vicky 2 supported in this nature to be any different.

 

[aruon]

problem is vicky 2 is just WAAAAY too old and outdated at this point. it runs the what, clausewitz 1.5? or is it 2.0? version of the engine. as HOI 4 and stellaris run on i think the 3.5 version, it's needless to say that's quite a lot of innovations to the engine made over the course of the past 6 1/2 years. and that's just the base engine it uses. it's an old school PDS game at this point.

it may be outdated (AKA old), but it's not obsolete (AKA poorly-aged and unplayable). but other than that, it's been mature and finito for a LONG time- unlike CK2 which is still running amazingly strong even though its bones are creaking thanks to PIs revised DLC policy.

 

[MN121MN]

TBH, the Victoria series serve a segment that to this day, no game has managed to fulfill. The main problem with Vic 2, I think, was accessibility with the game. It was quite complex, and there are still some gripes with the system.

 

[brifbates]

It was the most successful of the "old" games (HoI III, EU3, CK1). CK2's success blew it out of the water though.

I would wager pretty heavily against this actually being true unless you are talking about something other than financial success. It may well have been their best-reviewed / most acclaimed product but I'm pretty sure it was behind EU and HoI both from a sales perspective.

 

[Gunnarr]

I would wager pretty heavily against this actually being true unless you are talking about something other than financial success. It may well have been their best-reviewed / most acclaimed product but I'm pretty sure it was behind EU and HoI both from a sales perspective.

I swear I remember them gloating how CK2 and the DLC model made oodles more profit than the old expansion pack model.

That is why DLC is their model now

 

[Gunnarr]

I am very happy Victoria never got this treatment. It would have been terrible.

Victoria 2 would have become such a bloated mess it would be be crawling to survive! And the mods would be no where, because they would never have time to keep up!

The only aspect where the "Sims" spam-DLC-forever-model succeeds at is making profit and bloating games with little direction

 

[brifbates]

I swear I remember them gloating how CK2 and the DLC model made oodles more profit than the old expansion pack model.

That is why DLC is their model now

Yes, but the quote I was addressing was saying Vic 2 was their best selling product until CK 2. I know CK 2 became the king, I'm contesting that Vic 2 ever had the crown.

 

[Cagliostro]

I would wager pretty heavily against this actually being true unless you are talking about something other than financial success. It may well have been their best-reviewed / most acclaimed product but I'm pretty sure it was behind EU and HoI both from a sales perspective.

I agree that this was also my impression.

 

[aruon]

I am very happy Victoria never got this treatment. It would have been terrible.

Victoria 2 would have become such a bloated mess it would be be crawling to survive! And the mods would be no where, because they would never have time to keep up!

The only aspect where the "Sims" spam-DLC-forever-model succeeds at is making profit and bloating games with little direction

you mean like the bloated barely surviving messes that PDS best-sellers CK2 and EU4 are? and what about the mods which are continually updating and benefitting from these new DLCs? especially in the case of CK2 where paradox figured out a way to both sell the upcoming monks and mystics DLC while keeping the core feature it introduces outside the DLC paywall?

it's well known that the Sims DLC are more often than not just cash grabs for content modders could've introduced themselves.
it's also well known that paradox DLCs have turned decent games into good games that then turn into great games with a long lifetime.

 

[SacremPyrobolum]

I am very happy Victoria never got this treatment. It would have been terrible.

Victoria 2 would have become such a bloated mess it would be be crawling to survive! And the mods would be no where, because they would never have time to keep up!

The only aspect where the "Sims" spam-DLC-forever-model succeeds at is making profit and bloating games with little direction

I'll agree that some DLCs are more substantial than others, but none of them have ever made a game feel "bloated" except for maybe Rajs of India which added a pretty much entirely isolated subcontinent. Other than that, DLCs have added at least some good features to the games.

 

[--Yigito123--]

I am very happy Victoria never got this treatment. It would have been terrible.

Victoria 2 would have become such a bloated mess it would be be crawling to survive! And the mods would be no where, because they would never have time to keep up!

The only aspect where the "Sims" spam-DLC-forever-model succeeds at is making profit and bloating games with little direction

A lot of things wrong about your comment was already addressed, so I guess I'll take the last remaining point.

Ahem.

Yes, because the literally world-changing EU4 and CK2 mods are having so much difficulty keeping up while the broken and convoluted mess that are most of the Vic 2 mods are so good.