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EU4 - Development Diary - 21st of February 2017

Hello everyone. Tuesday has crept up on us once again which means it's time to armour up, grab my sword and jump back into the Thunderdome that is the Developer multiplayer, but before that, we've got a new Dev Diary!

Today we'll take a closer look at the much speculated Tributary States mechanic from the upcoming expansion. It's been fun reading the comments of this thread and see what the community has been suspecting we've put in the game. I'll be tackling that here

Getting straight to the meat of it, Tributary is a new subject type in Europa Universalis IV available for Nations in the Eastern Religion Group. Tributaries can be established both through warfare and through diplomacy and, while large nations are certainly not going to want to become your tributary willingly, through winning war you can force a nation of any size to bend the knee and pay up.

When you have established a nation as your Tributary, you will receive and annual tribute from them. You as their overlord are able to instruct them what to send, from Money, Administrative Power, Diplo Power, Military Power and Manpower. each year of successful tribute mutually raises trust between the nations. If you are the benevolent type of player, you can even tell them that no tribute is necessary. I am not a benevolent Overlord.


eu4_110.png


Here is Ming with their mighty collection of Tributaries. Along with demanding annual tribute, there are some new interactions available exclusively for nations with tributaries (artwork for them not yet in, so don't mind the placeholders):


  • Bestow Gifts: send subject 0.5 of target’s yearly income,
  • Send additional troops: sent 2 years of subject’s manpower,
  • Demand artifacts: Take 5 prestige from subject,
  • Demand additional tribute: take 0.25 years of target’s income from target
these interactions will also affect the subjects' liberty desire, which brings us to an important point, what does it mean to be a tributary. For what purpose does a nation bend their knee to the tax collector?

Although Tributaries are subjects, they are the most free of any type of subject. They may make their own allies, subjects and foreign policy. They will not follow their overlord into wars or any of the usual subject behavior. Instead, they will be given protection. If another nation who is not also a tributary to the same overlord attacks them, their Overlord will be called to arms. The Overlord may accept or decline although, depending on the relationship and trust between the Overlord and Tributary. Declining will have ill effects on their relationship with their tributaries.

The main cause of relations going south is due to the subject refusing to give tribute. If liberty desire grows too high, caused by the usual modifiers from relative strength, relations etc, Tributaries may start thinking they would be better off keeping their hard-earned manpower, money or Power, and so refuse to give tribute. Eventually, this can lead to the Tributary relationship breaking down, so keep and eye on your subjects and don't demand too much additional Tribute.

Speaking of milking nations dry, it seemed only natural to give Hordes the ability to have tributaries. I've been having an absolute ball with my favourite nation keeping the Horde economy turning through my horseback tributary collectors.

eu4_111.png



Tributary States are a paid feature in the upcoming yet-unnamed expansion, and are available for Hordes and for nations in the Eastern Religion Group (Shinto, Confucian, Three Buddhists) and are additionally available for any nation who is the Emperor of China.

What is the Emperor of China, you ask?

We'll find that out next week.
 
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Since hordes get tributaries and the mughals can be formed by a horde (the timmies), can the Mughals have them as well? I think formable nations should keep the ability to have and make tributaries if they are formed by nations that have that ability.

Furthermore, do reformed hordes lose the ability to have and make tributaries?
 
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I think tributary nations should also be allowed in India because this seems like what it was historically. The Mughal Empire had a bunch of tributary states which were pretty independent but paid their overlord and fought amongst themselves. Similarly, the Sultanate of Gujarat behaved in this way towards the various feudatories in the Saurashtra peninsula.
 
I think tributary nations should also be allowed in India because this seems like what it was historically. The Mughal Empire had a bunch of tributary states which were pretty independent but paid their overlord and fought amongst themselves. Similarly, the Sultanate of Gujarat behaved in this way towards the various feudatories in the Saurashtra peninsula.

Wasn't India under the East India Company as well as, to an extent, the British Rajj, basically a series of tributary princely states and land that was directly controlled by the British?
 
Wasn't India under the East India Company as well as, to an extent, the British Rajj, basically a series of tributary princely states and land that was directly controlled by the British?

Yeah exactly, for example under the British Raj, states in Rajasthan and Punjab also fought each other while being subjects of the same overlord.
 
Can a tributary accept to diplomatically become a protectorate or vassal to a different state, severing the tributary status? Or is it impossible to propose it at all because they are already technically a subject?

Because if its impossible to offer it 'as they are already a subject' that locks out a lot of diplomatic ways to gain footholds in East (and central) Asia.
 
Is anything being changes regarding diplomatic relations slots given that the game seems to me moving more toward subjects for expansion due to:

a) fewer states
b) new subject mechanics and removal of protectorates

?
 
Since hordes get tributaries and the mughals can be formed by a horde (the timmies), can the Mughals have them as well? I think formable nations should keep the ability to have and make tributaries if they are formed by nations that have that ability.

Furthermore, do reformed hordes lose the ability to have and make tributaries?
Changes your tech group to Muslim if you're Nomad, also changes your government to Iqta no matter what, so as it stands, no.
Worthwhile suggestion, though.
 
In general, I'm leaning towards allowing the tributary system for pretty much any non-Christian religion, as they were relatively plentifiul outside of the Christian world (and perhaps some examples existed in the Christian world too, but not to the level where they existed outside of it).
 
LMAO everyone wants their own tributary system.

tributary states of ottomans
tributary in america
tributary in india
tributary in space
make tributary great again.
 
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In general, I'm leaning towards allowing the tributary system for pretty much any non-Christian religion, as they were relatively plentifiul outside of the Christian world (and perhaps some examples existed in the Christian world too, but not to the level where they existed outside of it).
Were there really that many tributaries in the west, where a state payed someone for protection and assistance in wars, acknowledged them as their overlord, but still maintained a status as a sovereign state that had its own foreign policy?
 
Muscovy was a tributary to the Great Horde (under the Tartar Yoke) until 1480, 36 years after the game starts. Sure, The Great/Golden Horde was in decline, but Muscovy should have to break the Yoke. It ended with a standoff in which the horde couldn't fight the Rus (they couldn't cross the river: the Russians had firearms, and the Tartars had none) and eventually left, and so Muscovy gained independence. An event chain could be nice here that could possibly allow for something like this, or just for now Muscovy would fight an independence war

How...why...ugh, whatever.
Have you ever read anything except English Wikipedia on this matter?
First, 3 states wanted tribute from Muscovy in 1444. And, at the start of the game, Muscovy was at war with Kazan. Muscovy lost war and started to pay tribute to it.
Second, there were a lot of raids on territory of Muscovy. What is the point of raiding your tributary? It will be angry and will try to response.
Third, Yoke ended after battle under Alexin. Great Stand on Ugra River happened because Great Horde demanded tribute for 7 years.
Fourth, do you know how starting ruler of Muscovy became blind (he is called Vasiliy Tyomniy cause he couldn't ? A lot of boyars and princes weren't happy about loss of war and tribute. So some of them gathered, captured Vasiliy and blinded him.
 
Must be distinguished "tributary de facto" and "tributary only de iure". In early EU4 time Muscovy was more tributary de iure than de facto. Despite the formal acceptance of a sovereign Khan, Moscow didn't have de facto duties for Khan. Ergo - Muscovy was a full independent country (in early EU4 time)
 
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First, 3 states wanted tribute from Muscovy in 1444. And, at the start of the game, Muscovy was at war with Kazan. Muscovy lost war and started to pay tribute to it.

I mean, it's a deficiency in the system that a nation can only be a tributary of one other nation, but it's still more accurate to say that Muscovy was a tributary, at least de jure, of the GH than that it wasn't one at all.

Second, there were a lot of raids on territory of Muscovy. What is the point of raiding your tributary? It will be angry and will try to response.

To try to get more tribute and/or get rebellious tributaries to give their tributes if they refuse to?

Third, Yoke ended after battle under Alexin. Great Stand on Ugra River happened because Great Horde demanded tribute for 7 years.

But isn't that exactly what rebellious (i.e. high LD) tributaries are supposed to represent? Tributaries that don't pay their tribute? It seems to me rather counter-productive to argue that Muscovy wasn't a tributary because it acted just like a rebellious tributary trying to overthrow it's overlord.