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EU4 - Development Diary - 28th of February 2017

Good day everyone, Tuesday spells for us a new EU4 Development Diary and while certain members are away enjoying the high life at GDC, it falls to me to bring you today's juicy serving of new mechanics.

As teased last week, we shall look closer at the Empire of China, a new concept in the upcoming expansion. In 1444, Ming is busy being the top dog in Asia and indeed the world, but they were not the first to claim Mandate over China and certainly not the last. We are not even one hundred years from the total collapse of the Yuan domination of china and only two hundred years shy of the successor nation Qing.

An important goal for us is to bring new play experiences across the world. Previously as a nation in East Asia, one would generally wait for Ming to crumble to rebellions, usually from loss of the Mandate of Heaven modifier (or a lot of horses and a good shock phase), and then pick up the pieces from this "Mingsplosion" or playing as Ming, simply do everything in your power to avoid falling into aforementioned deadly Spiral. This isn't quite how we would like East Asia to play out. We wish to bring the whole experience to life In the upcoming expansion, as the Empire of China is now a title that is fought for!

eu4_123.png


Where to begin? Our glorious Ming Starts in 1444 with the Celestial throne with a moderate Mandate value. Mandate will grow over time supposing stability is high, States are prosperous and you have an extensive collection of Tributaries. Protect it well, since it will have a large effect on how well your nation will function: Provincial devastation and bordering nations who are not your Tributary or otherwise bending their knee to you will cause Mandate to suffer. At Maximum mandate, The emperor of China will enjoy unrest reduction and cheaper stability cost. Conversely, as Mandate goes down below 50, you will find your troops performing worse and your provinces producing fewer goods, as the people you supposedly rule over with Divine grace back you less and less.

Mandate can be used to pass Celestial Reforms. Not unlike the Holy roman Empire, The Emperor of China must foster the growth of their mandate and spend it to gain some fantastic bonuses. Each Reform can be taken at 80+ Mandate, each will reduce Mandate by 50 and Stability by 1.
  • Introduce Gaituguiliu
    • +0.5 Meritocracy
  • Reform Seaban
    • +1 Diplomats
    • +5% trade Efficiency
  • Delegate Zongdu
    • -0.05 Monthly autonomy
  • Establish Lifan Yuan
    • -10% Core creation Cost
  • Reshape Beurocratic Ranks
    • +1 Monarch Admin Power
Additionally, hawk-eyed readers will have spotted a new Hat in the top bar. Celestial Emperors do not use the Legitimacy values since they are all obviously legit. The Emperor instead has unique access to Meritocracy. This will naturally degrade every year but increases by having skilled advisors in your court. It is then spent on the 6 Decrees, also uniquely available to the Emperor of China.

  • Expand Palace Bureaucracy
    • -10% Development cost
    • -10% core Creation Cost
  • Conduct Population Census
    • +25% National Tax
  • Promote Naval Officers
    • +20% ship durability
  • Increase Tariff Control
    • +25% Provincial trade Power
  • Improve Defense Effort
    • +25% Fort Defense
  • Boost the Officer Corps
    • +10% Infantry Combat Ability
Each Decree lasts for 10 years, costs 20 Meritocracy and, of course, all values are subject to balance up until release, but that's par for the course.

So life is good for the Ming the Celestial Emperor. China is theirs, their tribute flows in regularly and they pass reforms and decrees as they see fit. Well, no single Empire lasts forever.

eu4_126.png


The Celestial throne is there for any Pagan or Eastern Religion nation to secure for themselves. In practice, The Northern Hordes, the Japanese, the Koreans and the Buddhists are all in with a fair shot at securing the title for themselves and have access to a new Casus Belli: Take Mandate of Heaven. Land is cheaper to take in this war. Far cheaper, and it will allow the attacker to secure the Throne for themselves. When this happens, all previous reforms are wiped and the new ruler will start with moderate Mandate themselves. After all, there is only one China and all history from before did not exist. The new Emperor of China will have to quickly establish themselves with their own tributaries and bring Prosperity to the people of China to avoid the fate of their disposed Predecessor. The failed old Emperor of China shall be subjected to the Lost Mandate of Heaven modifier in addition to losing their Empire of China modifiers. Better take care of them, before they collect themselves and put their mind to reclaiming their old throne.

The successful claimant will also enjoy permanent claim on all of China to help consolidate their new power, as our Dai Viet player @Ihki was putting to great effect.

eu4_124.png


Best of luck with your fight to secure the Mandate for yourself. We'll be back next week to talk about another new feature which has our team lamenting any moment that they have to play without it. See you then!
 
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@DDRJake on the subject of Modability; could I make multiple mandates for different "empires" around the globe, or can there only be a single one?
 
It is well within the realm of possibility for Japan to trade their Shogun position for the Celestial Throne.

Right but can it be the Yamato Dynasty at the head of the Chinese Throne instead of the Shogun's Dynasty? @DDRJake actually now that I think about it, is it possible for the new dynasty to change the name of the nation to that of a new dynasty? So like how the Manchu become the Qing Dynasty or the Mongols become the Yuan Dynasty, can the same apply to another nation?
 
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The factions are not removed. They have new names though which is somewhat more factual and true compared to the old one. The Temple faction is now "Commanderies of the Five Armies," The Eunuch faction is now "Offices of Maritime Trade," and the Bureaucrat faction is now "Grand Secretariat."

My bad, must've misread a post. I just remembered seeing the factions renamed in the stream.
 
Can the name of the nation be its dynasty when it's the Chinese emperor?
This would be super inaccurate. Chinese imperial dynastic names are not family names. Chinese dynastic names typically have two sources. 1) Based off of the founding emperor's power base (so the Prince of Jin becomes Emperor of the Jin dynasty), and 2) based on a word that the founding emperor thinks is regal (Ming, Qing, etc).
 
They did, nowadays the leader of japan, even if it is unified, will still be called the shogun.

Ugh, to those of you who seem trigger happy with the "respectfully disagree" button yet can not actually counter my argument here is a bit of visual proof.
upload_2017-2-28_18-14-47.png
 
Ugh, to those of you who seem trigger happy with the "respectfully disagree" button yet can not actually counter my argument here is a bit of visual proof.
View attachment 244009

What game are you playing that you get two 6/6/6 rulers in a row of the Yamato Dynasty, and have united Japan while the Ming have simultaneously collapsed only twenty years in?
 
What game are you playing that you get two 6/6/6 rulers in a row of the Yamato Dynasty, and have united Japan while the Ming have simultaneously collapsed only twenty years in?

Custom designer as a one county daymyo under Japan named after the emperors of the time (because I myself was going by the missconception that empire tier Japan had it's ruler be called emperor and would help with immersion). The high stats are due to the fact that I had so many points to spare having spent practically none that I might as well make them superbeings. Ming is not my fault though, it just collapsed immideatly as it is wont to do.
 
See I think that the Yamato should be represented in Japan in one fashion or another, as well as having the ability of being the actual emperor of China should they gain the mandate. It simply doesn't make sense for the emperor of China to be the Shogun, someone who at least on paper is under the Japanese Emperor.
 
So there's still no "actually own part of China" requirement to initiate the claim mandate CB? Gotta say, I'm disappointed. Seems like a primo reason to involve the ancient capitals of China and make them important provinces to claim if you wanted to proclaim yourself Emperor of China. And It's not like it'd be even nerfing the Manchu/Qing, they're right next to Beijing.
 
You can already 1v1 Ming as the Manchus without much help if you gun for military 5 tech. Not sure how it works now though without faction mails for Ming.
This new Ming comes without autonomy limiters.
So you are fighting a unified HRE at 1444. China has very few states for its size, so all can be full states rather than territories.
The banners mechanics is extremely strong though, so I guess for AI vs AI it will become a Horde vs Ming battle, fairly historical though, since China was never conquered by Korea or Japan or Vietnam or Tibet.
 
Will the Chinese Emperors get access to the same succession mechanics as the Ottomans? IIRC the Emperors always had a load of concubines and their dynasties were never in any danger of extinction. It's weird seeing Ming get inherited by e.g. the Ashikaga right now.

Would you guys consider making Ryukyu and Manchu a bit more interesting next? I think Ryukyu could use a few more provinces and a new culture and religion (it had only just united from a series of smaller kingdoms in 1444, and they weren't pagans any more than the Japanese were). The Manchus could also possibly use their own religion, since I'm pretty sure they weren't Tengri.

Ryukyu Religion would be cool, since its not an animist religion.
Ryukyu do have there own culture and and language so they should have there own culture.
Also the Islands look like this:
Location_of_the_Ryukyu_Islands.JPG

Ryukyu is missing Miyako and the Yaeyama islands in the game.They should both become provinces in the game. I could also see splitting up Okinawa and Amami in two two provinces, as well as create Osumi and Tokra as a single province.

Since Ryukyu didn't get control of Miyako and Yaeyama intill the end of the 15th century they should start as not inhabitable and an event should give them the provinces.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryukyu_Kingdom
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryukyuan_religion
 
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So there's still no "actually own part of China" requirement to initiate the claim mandate CB? Gotta say, I'm disappointed. Seems like a primo reason to involve the ancient capitals of China and make them important provinces to claim if you wanted to proclaim yourself Emperor of China. And It's not like it'd be even nerfing the Manchu/Qing, they're right next to Beijing.
There isn't a requirement but a disaster or something like that happens if you don't have very muh of china
 
Ryukyu Religion would be cool, since its not an animist religion.
Also the Islands look more like this:
Location_of_the_Ryukyu_Islands.JPG

I really hate to be that guy since I've wanted this expansion as much as anyone, but I really don't think Ryukyu is relevant enough to the period or important enough to warrant its own custom religion, let alone large enough for new provinces.
 
I really hate to be that guy since I've wanted this expansion as much as anyone, but I really don't think Ryukyu is relevant enough to the period or important enough to warrant its own custom religion, let alone large enough for new provinces.

Its true there small and non important, but they have one of the hardest achievements in the game. They should at least add the islands of miyako and yeayama to the game as there not even present. They should also have there own culture at least considering they had there own language and traditions.

All though yeah there own religion may be be realistic and will never happen, still like the idea though
 
I really hate to be that guy since I've wanted this expansion as much as anyone, but I really don't think Ryukyu is relevant enough to the period or important enough to warrant its own custom religion, let alone large enough for new provinces.

I'm all for adding new provinces as long as it can fit on the map without having its province name becoming unintelligible. I suspect, though, that EU5 map's total size will be larger than that of EU4 allowing for more stuffing of smaller provinces... one can only hope. :p But I think adding island provinces in Ryukyu's case might be doable and should make it more interesting to play at game start. No idea if splitting Okinawa is doable, though.
 
@DDRJake on the subject of Modability; could I make multiple mandates for different "empires" around the globe, or can there only be a single one?

Most likely only one since you can only have one HRE and so likely same situation for mandate system, but I think someone somehow made EU using HRE mechanics. Not sure.

But just out of curiosity, what different "empires" do you have in mind for mandate for? I can't think of an empire elsewhere having similar system. Although, the doomsday system in Aztec almost sound similar to heavenly mandate somewhat.
 
There isn't a requirement but a disaster or something like that happens if you don't have very muh of china

I'd rather it be a requirement. It just makes no sense that like in the MP session, Dai Viet is considered the legitimate emperor of China - with claims on all of it - when, at the start of the war (and heck, even at the end of their war), they held zero Chinese provinces. Yes, they were able to get portions of China afterwards to stabilize their mandate, as could other nations from this start given the current system - but why were they able to proclaim themselves Emperors in the first place? What sense does that make? I'd much prefer it that you had to make legitimate inroads into China before you could even think about calling yourself emperor of the whole.
 
the fate of their disposed Predecessor. The failed old Emperor of China shall be subjected to the Lost Mandate of Heaven modifier in addition to losing their Empire of China modifiers. Better take care of them, before they collect themselves and put their mind to reclaiming their old throne.
If the former Emperor succeeds in taking back the Mandate, do they have to start over from scratch with the reforms?

We can still see who votes on our posts? I thought that went away like a month after implementing the feature?
You can still see who has voted on your posts, but the interface is tucked away with your settings, and is quite unwieldy. To see the list of responses, hover over or click your username to the left of the alerts and inbox icons. Then, click on the link that says "Ratings Received". That will bring you to a list of all the ratings you have ever received, in chronological order of when they were given. Then, all you need to do is look through the list and hunt down the ones for the specific post you are interested in knowing who voted for what. There is no filter or search function, just one giant list.
 
Most likely only one since you can only have one HRE and so likely same situation for mandate system, but I think someone somehow made EU using HRE mechanics. Not sure.

But just out of curiosity, what different "empires" do you have in mind for mandate for? I can't think of an empire elsewhere having similar system. Although, the doomsday system in Aztec almost sound similar to heavenly mandate somewhat.

I was thinking about trying to make a total conversion mod inspired by/based on RWBY where each of the four Kingdoms would use the Mandate system(and at the vary least tributaries would be available for everyone), though if multiple aren't possible then I suppose Mistral would use the Mandate system(due to being the largest territory wise and having limited authority outside the capital, as well as being Remnant's equivalent to both China and the Roman Empire), while Vacuo would get the HRE mechanics(practically being in a state of anarchy with many independent nomadic tribes).

though in latter 'start dates' all the Kingdoms would be republics... so that would likely brake both of those systems...