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77Hawk77

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Let me just clarify this is for On-Map artillery functionality, not off-map which already has it's own thread. I saw a few mentions of artillery in other threads and remembered that Artillery in every game makes people have strong opinions.

This thread can be used to discuss anything related to artillery in general, but i'll like to propose there are 3 grand designs for them which usually are used and people tend to prefer one of the first two when talking about war game.

  1. The Red Dragon model. -Expensive, few, Accurate, Powerful, Slow firing.
    In Red Dragon, artillery is fairly expensive but relatively powerful, some artillery units are 1 hit kill units. You can go far using very few guns or MRLs simply because they do so much damage and are so incredibly accurate, artillery is used to remove strategic targets but rarely used for saturation unless it's MRLs in which case it's still not cost effective due to their price.

    Single target heavy damage, used for destroying small amounts of targets (Generally, there are exceptions)

  2. The Air Land Battle Model. -Moderate Price, few, Inaccurate, fast firing.
    In Air Land Battle, artillery was not as expensive, and generally much less accurate, but more importantly it was much weaker in terms of damage. The primary purpose of rocket artillery was not to destroy units, but to panic them making them better at softening an area before you moved in with other units.

    Area attack weak damage, used for panicking the enemy and causing morale damage.

  3. The Saturation model. -Cheap, many, moderate damage, inaccurate, slow firing.
    In games like Blitzkrieg 1 and 2 artillery came in batteries, it was inaccurate, and in order to do real damage, you needed a battery of them to do real damage. The artillery is used for area denial and saturation, it was not accurate enough to take out a single unit, the many shells made a zone dangerous, but not something that couldn't be survived, sometimes you just have to weather artillery even though it hurts. But you need to have a lot of artillery to actually do this damage, and a battery of artillery is harder to hide than a single MRL or two elite super fast firing sniper artillery units.

    Wide Area attack moderate damage, saturation for making positions uncomfortable a real hazard but an added level of randomness.
I think I can categorize most people's general opinion on artillery as being one of these, except the ones who think artillery should not exist at all. Personally I am on model 3, i like big batteries of guns firing lots of inaccurate shells adding a random level of hazard to the battlefield, rather than snipers in RD or pea shooters that focus on moral damage in ALB. I want artillery to feel like it has the ompf and power, but without being the ultimate tool for strategic removal. It should be an area weapon in my opinion.

I am interested in seeing what you guys think about artillery and how you want it to show in this world war 2 game.

Also I wish I could have a poll to vote between the 3 options + other
 
Saturation yes plz, a better reflection to the power of artillery in WWII

none of them were able to pinpoint snipe units IRL anyway.
 
I liked RD artillery. After all, it is powerful in real life, a 155m howitzer shrapnel is (moderately) dangerous out to 400m, guns are accurate and forward observing is done via digital calculators. I've no problem that the game reflects that.

In WW2 era, however, the guns were less accurate, and the methods available to forward observers were less sophisticated, requiring more guns on target, saturation and artillery being slower to react. For ex. on their sector the Brits faced heavy resistance and were forced to use creeping barrages to cover their infantry advance through the bocage.
 
It would be nice if we could allow artillery to take extra time to aim in exchange for being able to hit "point" city block targets, or for it to be able to become more accurate with every round when firing on a target in LOS.

Everything except mortars and maybe 75mm artillery should fire saturation otherwise.
 
It would be nice if we could allow artillery to take extra time to aim in exchange for being able to hit "point" city block targets, or for it to be able to become more accurate with every round when firing on a target in LOS.

Everything except mortars and maybe 75mm artillery should fire saturation otherwise.

I'd actually like to see artillery getting accuracy modifiers like that. It would reflect reality nicely, and drive home that it's WW2 technology, you can't pummel someone at the other end of the map that easily without either pin-pointing the enemy through recon, or significant saturation.

You can put something like -20% accuracy if there's nobody to correct fire. While blind firing at suspected positions is a thing, it's not effective without significant saturation, and is mostly useful as harassment. Then add on top of that -15% for the first few shots, and then both are removed if you have a unit observing the first few hits. Forward observing wasn't accurate enough to guarantee hits on first shots, so you would routinely need somebody to observe the hits and correct the gun before you start the actual barrage.

edit: Numbers are just example values.
edit2: On another note, this would make Forward Observer units a viable addition. Killing the enemy forward observer could serve to reduce the effectiveness of his artillery, either by reducing accuracy or increasing aiming time.
 
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I would assume that there will be various different artillery pieces, which should fit different niches, as otherwise there will be just "the one good arty" and "the rest". WG:ALB arty felt a bit too much like glorified mortars. I quite liked how in WG:EE arty gradually got more accurate with each shot, so alert player could abandon position to save his stuff but probably got obliterated if staying still, although in EE there were just too many strong arty pieces available, so it tended to get overly dominant.
 
There are a couple options for FO units. Either LOS from any unit allows for artillery corrections, or LOS from any recon unit does, or LOS from specialized FO units does.

I think LOS in general is enough IMO.
 
The Air Land Battle Model for units, if they're going to have off map arty maybe like naval bombardment or railroad artillery it should be very accurate and devastating but take a long time to get on target.
 
There are a couple options for FO units. Either LOS from any unit allows for artillery corrections, or LOS from any recon unit does, or LOS from specialized FO units does.

I think LOS in general is enough IMO.
I don't know, I kind of feel like having forward observer units would be an interesting bit of authenticity, whether that is recon or FO units, and also give you an option besides counter-battery, allowing you to counter enemy artillery by making their fire inaccurate. Although you may be right, special FO units that aren't useful for much else might be too much, depending on how many units there'll be to maneuver.
 
Having artillery fire in "phases" like it does in real life would greatly reduce the problem RD had with arty spam. So the first shots are ranging shots, then you have correcting fire and then the main barrage. Maybe someone more creative than me can make that work along with the current phases in the game, so at the start of a match since you only have recon units in contact and no predesignated targets your artillery support would be limited to inaccurate ranging shots and so on and so forth.
 
I just Hope that they haven't included "Mike Target" for the Royal Artillery becuase if they did I think if people faced British Artillery with that feature they'd most likely end up crying becuase of it...

So each 25 Pounder Battery has Eight OQF 25 Pounders Historically; The Main barrage Hits then the FOO (Foward Observation Officer) then requests a "Mike Target"... after which all the Regiments guns (24 Guns) or all the available Guns would then open fire upon the Target...
 
I just Hope that they haven't included "Mike Target" for the Royal Artillery becuase if they did I think if people faced British Artillery with that feature they'd most likely end up crying becuase of it...

So each 25 Pounder Battery has Eight OQF 25 Pounders Historically; The Main barrage Hits then the FOO (Foward Observation Officer) then requests a "Mike Target"... after which all the Regiments guns (24 Guns) or all the available Guns would then open fire upon the Target...

I would like that honestly. Don't balance artillery by making them few, make them a battery and just have other downsides. Like the 25 pounder was probably the weakest artillery of all howitzers used in ww2. That I know of at least.
 
I actually would like to see fire-missions per battery as an addition.
Imagine the same artillery-mechanic as in Wargame but in addition every artillery can place 3 different fire-missions on the map.
These Fire-Missions will be then prepared by the battery (shooting in?) and can be called upon with a far faster reaction time.
To switch a Fire-Mission to a different place it takes time (like 1-Minute per Mission).

Instantaneuous-Calls for Fire-Support as in Wargame might even be get a faster reaction time up depending on how close they are to a preplanned fire-mission place.