Stellaris Dev Diary #62: Government, Civics and Hive Minds

[Emraldis]

Agreed. The danger of GMOs is all in the corporations that make use of dangerous practices and policies. A genetically modified tomato is perfectly safe, a genetically modified tomato that makes use of terminator seeds to increase profit isn't.

Exactly. In fact, many GMO'd plants are beneficial to the environment, doing things like reducing the use of pesticides via natural pest resistance and such. Anyway, I'm derailing the topic, my bad lol.

 

[Arkangilos]

Well it's been informative

 

[PalmettoExplorer14]

Indeed.

The only concern is how would you implement pollution into Stellaris? It forces you to decide if you want faster production rates at the expense of having food for your Pops since the environment is being polluted or to have more food grown (and thus increase population growth) at the expense of not being able to crank out more ships.

One thing I wish they would add to Stellaris is a tax system similar to the ones in Master of Orion. Higher taxes mean more money (or energy credits) but it can (and will!) cause unrest in your citizens, who will either go on strike or rebel and secede from your empire. Now that we have factions fixed in Banks, I think a taxation system would be good and add a layer of strategic thinking in an economical and political way that is.

Civics adds some unique flavor to the game, although two might be limiting things a bit (thankfully there will be mods for sure).

I also wish that temples would be based on our Species sort of like city backgrounds are right now. Hopefully they'll do that eventually.

I guess in a way the new government system makes it so that no one government is overpowered like it is currently so that's good.

 

[Emraldis]

The only concern is how would you implement pollution into Stellaris?

For me, habitability comes to mind, as a decent option. The more polluted something is, the less habitability it has. Especially since habitability already affects happiness and pop growth.

 

[PalmettoExplorer14]

For me, habitability comes to mind, as a decent option. The more polluted something is, the less habitability it has. Especially since habitability already affects happiness and pop growth.

That could work. I guess in a way there are several levels before you get to total environmental collapse. At each level, unrest goes up as the habitability goes down.

Green: You're good. The environment is nearly 100% great!

Yellow: Okay, there has been some pollution spotted and things aren't looking that great, but we aren't in total danger yet.

Red: DANGER! Planet is on verge of collapse! Toxic sludge and smog have almost completely covered the planet! Do something, as the colonists are rioting and they're blaming you! Wait, I think they've started a revolution!

Black: Total ecological collapse. Planet has literally become a ball of sludge. Abandon the planet!

Yeah, a little humorous mind you, but hopefully it simplifies the explanation of the system I'm proposing (although someone might come up with something better I'm sure).

And I still think they need to add a taxation system into this game, to liven things up.

 

[terrycloth]

That could work. I guess in a way there are several levels before you get to total environmental collapse. At each level, unrest goes up as the habitability goes down.

Green: You're good. The environment is nearly 100% great!

Yellow: Okay, there has been some pollution spotted and things aren't looking that great, but we aren't in total danger yet.

Red: DANGER! Planet is on verge of collapse! Toxic sludge and smog have almost completely covered the planet! Do something, as the colonists are rioting and they're blaming you! Wait, I think they've started a revolution!

Black: Total ecological collapse. Planet has literally become a ball of sludge. Abandon the planet!

Yeah, a little humorous mind you, but hopefully it simplifies the explanation of the system I'm proposing (although someone might come up with something better I'm sure).

And I still think they need to add a taxation system into this game, to liven things up.

Pollution and Taxes are pretty boring (and annoying) in MOO. How would pollution even work in Stellaris, since production happens in space?

It sounds like both would just be edicts. Maybe free edicts since we already have economy-boosting edicts that cost influence. '+20% minerals, -10% habitability' as a planetary edict maybe. And '+20% energy credits, -10% happiness' for the extra taxes.

 

[Tavior]

Pollution and Taxes are pretty boring (and annoying) in MOO. How would pollution even work in Stellaris, since production happens in space?

From an abstraction point of view; Planet would see lot of the furniture, table, kitchen, and other non-shipyard relative manufacturing on planet side.

In real life example; shipyard that build yacht only work on the engine, superstructure, base essential wiring/pipe, life support and bridge. Once most of those work are finished they take the yacht out for a certificate seaworthy test and come back to the shipyard. Then have most of the flooring/chandelier and all that shipped to the shipyard to be install in.

As for putting pollution in stellaris, it is hard for me to see it happening most of the time it is not a fun mechanic.

 

[Kat Tsun]

Indeed.

The only concern is how would you implement pollution into Stellaris?

By not.

 

[TheDarkMaster]

From an abstraction point of view; Planet would see lot of the furniture, table, kitchen, and other non-shipyard relative manufacturing on planet side.

In real life example; shipyard that build yacht only work on the engine, superstructure, base essential wiring/pipe, life support and bridge. Once most of those work are finished they take the yacht out for a certificate seaworthy test and come back to the shipyard. Then have most of the flooring/chandelier and all that shipped to the shipyard to be install in.

As for putting pollution in stellaris, it is hard for me to see it happening most of the time it is not a fun mechanic.

I think the keys would be to first have each POP generate pollution, while there is also a gradual reduction over time based on the planet's size. Most production buildings will produce some pollution as well, with more being produced by higher levels. You can pass planetary edicts to do immediate flat reductions of pollution or adjust your empire policies to modify pollution rates vs production bonuses or penalties. An anti-pollution building chain is added to the game, and some buildings like the Paradise Dome and planetary capital are changed to reduce pollution. Maybe also have a spaceport module for reducing pollution.

Unless you're overclocking your production, you won't see too much pollution on planets that have general utility and rarely during the early game. Once you get your planets up to full capacity and have upgraded some buildings, then you have to start worrying about your urban sprawl and production taxing the environment. Highly specialized mining planets will produce a lot more pollution, which makes it appealing to use mainly mining robots instead of POPs if you just want to use a 100% polluted planet purely for mineral production.

 

[PalmettoExplorer14]

Pollution and Taxes are pretty boring (and annoying) in MOO. How would pollution even work in Stellaris, since production happens in space?

It sounds like both would just be edicts. Maybe free edicts since we already have economy-boosting edicts that cost influence. '+20% minerals, -10% habitability' as a planetary edict maybe. And '+20% energy credits, -10% happiness' for the extra taxes.

Well, I admit that the pollution can be a bit annoying at time, but it did create some strategy to the game (in my opinion that is).

As for taxes, it does add some more strategy in terms of economics.

Anyhow, I'm hoping we have a lot of civics to choose from.

 

[Mild Inconvenience]

Advanced Civics (Paid Feature)
In addition to the normal Civics available to everyone, there are also a few special Civics that are only available to those with the Utopia expansion. These Civics are meant to simulate very specific kinds of societies and generally have more of an impact on your game than the normal Civics do. They are as follows:

• Syncretic Evolution: Your species evolved along with another, subservient species. A second species is randomly generated on your homeworld replacing some of your primary species' Pops. They always have the Proles (rebalanced in Banks) and Strong traits, making them excellent soldiers and workers but less ideal for intellectual pursuits. This Civic provides no additional benefits and cannot be removed once picked.
• Mechanist: Your species is obsessed with the pursuit of robotics. This Civic requires you to be Materialist and has you start with the Robotic Workers and Powered Exoskeletons technologies and a population of worker robots to do the farming and mining for you, replacing some of your primary species' Pops. This Civic provides no additional benefits and cannot be removed once picked.
• Fanatic Purifiers: Your empire will not tolerate the existance of any other sentient life. This Civic requires you to be Fanatic Xenophobe/Militarist and gives very large boosts to the effectiveness of your military and gives you Unity from purging Xeno Pops, but disables all diplomacy with other species and forces all Xeno Pops in your empire to be purged (though you get to choose the method of extermination). All other regular empires will also have a massive relations malus with you, the one and only exception being Fanatic Purifiers from the same species.

I'm still a new player and as such I'll admit that my understanding of the game's balance is no doubt incomplete, however I would still like to provide what feedback I can regarding these Civics. I'll also admit that I haven't read the entire thread from beginning to end, so if this is a repeat of what has already been said, then I apologise.

I really love these as concepts and have the following constructive criticism:

With the Syncretic Evolution Civic, you mentioned that the second species is randomly generated, but I think that it would be good if players could customise the species to at least some degree, even if only their name and appearance.

Whilst I understand the point that you made elsewhere in the thread about how an early boost is very powerful and balances-out the lack of long-term bonuses, I can't help but think that it would be both more enjoyable and thematically appropriate if they provided some kind of long-term bonus, even if only a very limited one. For example, given that Mechanists are "obsessed with the pursuit of robotics", perhaps they could receive a small bonus to research speed specifically for technologies that are part of the Robotics Path and/or have those technologies weighted to appear more often. Even a 1% bonus to robotics research would be very much appreciated, as it would mean that I and other players wouldn't become as frustrated during the mid-to-late game at being stuck with a Civic that no longer does anything.

If I may be so bold as to make another suggestion: personally, I think that it would be very cool to be able to make a species psychic from the very beginning of the game and a Civic that makes them start with the first item(s) in the psionics research tree would be one way to do that. Some form of psionic Trait would be another alternative, but I'll admit that I'm pretty much just wishlisting at this point.

I hope that this feedback is helpful and, if not, that it isn't too annoying.

 

[Primarch Victus]

I agree with the idea of being able to customize the second species of the Syncretic Evolution Trait.

 

[TheDarkMaster]

My main suggestion for the Syncretic race would be to make them a +1 trait point and max of 3 trait picks if the UI can be adjusted to allow it. If not, it would probably be fine to have a set of presets for what your subserviant race should be to fit the most common roles. Ex: Strong but dumb, weak skill farmers, or solitary energy makers.

 

[Tavior]

My main suggestion for the Syncretic race would be to make them a +1 trait point and max of 3 trait picks if the UI can be adjusted to allow it. If not, it would probably be fine to have a set of presets for what your subserviant race should be to fit the most common roles. Ex: Strong but dumb, weak skill farmers, or solitary energy makers.

What if I want something non-traditional? Perhaps delicious and slow growth?

But yeah we will see what happens.

 

[henzington]

Delicious is from biological accession so it won't be an option at the star.

 

[faljen_isus]

nice idea for pollution being tied to habitability

pollution would come from mining and energy buildings, and although you can have clean energy, you do have an impossible time making mining eco-friendy

and i do hope that the make some civic specific events... the game would benefit a lot from them

 

[Sheriff Godwin Law]

Pollution is sort of already coming in Utopia via the living standards slider. After all, a high standard of living isn't just about everyone getting an Ipod. Having clean water, sandy beaches, national parks, and some purple mountain's majesty in your life is part of it too.

On the flip side of the coin, I know when I put my xeno scum to work as slave miners on a subsistence budget, in my mind they're going to be living in shanty towns next to the automated refineries that spew poison and pollution with reckless abandon.

This continues to play into the idea about habitability since habitability's only mechanical effect in game is to cap happiness.

 

[Gaen]

Was re reading the DD and thought grey for the hiv minds disabled happiness bar looks so boring, should make it blue or any other unused colors = P

 

[Tavior]

Delicious is from biological accession so it won't be an option at the star.

Duh. Still it shows my point you could come up with weird combination that are just that weird.

 

[Riftwalker]

i just realized that hive mind's government is just called "hive mind" c'mon the civics should at least give me a fancy name for the type of hive mind i created, just like that one above it is a blood court.