CK2 Dev Diary #45: The Adjustment Bureau

[Gnostiko]

Will you add nes society for pagan?

Honestly, I'd more rather they did a super nes society.

 

[TheDungen]

They should hardcode HRE vassals to start elective monarchy factions.

Not hardcode but certain cultures hsould be biased towards certain sucessions, germanics, west (minus the english) central (minush the frankish) and north should be biased towards the elective ones, elective and elective gavelkind.

In a perfect world the HRE would have his own succession laws. I made a suggestion abou it some time ago.

Should it? I think the current one fits the pre golden bull HRE fairly well.

Maybe add a modifier to certain titles like "favours elective", which means that, given the option of several succession laws, vassals will tend towards the one set in that modifier. You could even make it dynamic, so if your kingdom has been at seniority for a few hundred years, it will clear the old modifier (for the sake of example, lets say gavelkind) in favour of your kingdom now favouring seniority. Would be a good way of representing the different legal cultures which form in Kingdoms over time

While intresting it would probably be better just to tie it to culture.

I'd say that it should depend on a few more factors than just the modifier as e.g. the Norman vassals of post-Conquest England shouldn't be of the opinion that those silly Anglo-Saxons had the right idea if William changes the law. They should obviously want more power for themselves, but they shouldn't be using "Well, the Anglo-Saxons used Elective, so it is the right law!" as an argument as they gained a lot from the Conquest. Of course, if William or his heirs become tyrants, or someone grows too powerful, they should try to deal with it.

That's why my cultural bias system is so good, the normans are latin thus would not want elective but any remaining saxons would.

How about secret societies for heretic religions, such as Cathars and the liking?

I think that when ck3 rolls around the society and heresy systems will be merged.

I'm glad we'll get the ability to give artefacts to other characters. I did a war to make the duke of Breizh pay tribute to me (I'm saving 6 grand for hospital upgrades and wanted more income) and accidentally captured a nice sword he had in his treasury.

I feel guilty about it! I'd give it back it I could.

It would probably be better if you could ransom it back to him.

I also like that the AI will want claimants over elective. It matches the period better, and it gives more opportunies to press weak claims (war for elective didn't count as contesting the title, did it?)

It fits some cultures, the english, the normans, the french and so on, but in germanic cultures anyone pushing primogeniture would really have to fight a civil war to make it happen. Just look how the saxons reacted when William tried to push norman law on them.

What about Alchemy? I thought that's what the ingredients were going to be used for? I was hoping to create potions and transmute things...

transmutation isn't real, I would however love to see transmutation experiments which could give research points even if transmutation itself was a pipedream.

 

[BlackPrince]

Then there’s the ability to give artifacts to other characters; it might not be something you folks have clamored for, but it was originally planned to be included in the expansion.

It was literally one of the first things which players asked for when the DD about artefacts was revealed.

 

[SM_Unlimited]

- Massive update to Faction balance!

Seriously 3rd time now every patch kills one of my mods

 

[Xinkc]

I don't suppose you could tell if the dark impregnation has been fixed so leaders of the devil cults can use it as males?

Also the fact that it can trigger sunset invasion even if sunset invasion 10 years into the game even when the settings are set to historical/delayed is a bit silly, but that's kind of less of an issue in my opinion.

I would think that circumventing a game rule would be a pretty big deal. I wouldn't mind if demon spawn brought in oversized, Aztec culture/religion adventurer groups on occasion before the rule allows it. However, straight up ignoring the rule is unacceptable.

Dark impregnation worked for me as male?

What you need is a satanic cult member who is a female. Most member will usually be male so you need to convince a female to join then use it on her.

Make sure she isn't pregnant already and is of child bearing age as well.

I know there are bugs with that ability out there but want to make sure you know the requirements.

For the Fellowship of Hel, one can only use Dark impregnation, as a man, if they get the mission before becoming a leader. If a man becomes the leader of the society, they cannot use it. This is because the ability can only be used with the mission or on oneself, the latter of which requires being a woman. This is rather annoying because it means that the society leaders actually have less to do for their groups though access to Absorb Life-force is nice.

 

[Silversweeeper]

@TheDungen: I'm personally not a fan of locking things to cultures/culture groups or making those determine how the AI thinks about important issues. Sure, historically there were some trends (e.g. Elective in Scandinavia), but after 100 years of alt history and Elective never being the law (or at least not having been the law for a very long time, if we count the early EG days) for a Swedish Norse "crusader state" somewhere I don't think that realm should be more likely to go Elective because of its culture than a Catholic Berber kingdom or a Greek Orthodox empire, all other things being equal. A strong ruler of a culture that historically tended towards Elective should still try to consolidate power as much as a ruler from a culture with no historical Elective realm, while the vassals of a ruler of a culture that didn't use Elective historically should still try to force Elective if they are able to (and dislike their liege enough, don't prefer some claimant/themself s the new ruler, etc.) about as frequently as someone from a culture that was Elective and should dislike the liege moving away from Elective just as much unless it directly benefits them.

 

[NakedBeast]

You should totally be able to be a member of multiple secret societies, unless they oppose each other.

 

[Arrowkill]

They do pass on. Well, most of the time. Sometimes items seems to get lost.

All of my rulers lose their Magnum Opus when they die and the heir succeeds the throne. I thought it was kind of weird though.

 

[Jackwagon]

Did you fix the Direct vassal map mode?

 

[Pluckey]

Can you add back the game auto-ending at 1453, even with no character active?

 

[Coffee Fox]

Not hardcode but certain cultures hsould be biased towards certain sucessions, germanics, west (minus the english) central (minush the frankish) and north should be biased towards the elective ones, elective and elective gavelkind.


Should it? I think the current one fits the pre golden bull HRE fairly well.


While intresting it would probably be better just to tie it to culture.


That's why my cultural bias system is so good, the normans are latin thus would not want elective but any remaining saxons would.


I think that when ck3 rolls around the society and heresy systems will be merged.


It would probably be better if you could ransom it back to him.


It fits some cultures, the english, the normans, the french and so on, but in germanic cultures anyone pushing primogeniture would really have to fight a civil war to make it happen. Just look how the saxons reacted when William tried to push norman law on them.



transmutation isn't real, I would however love to see transmutation experiments which could give research points even if transmutation itself was a pipedream.

Neither is magic, but Satanists do that just fine.

You can also write a Magnum Opus on transmutation, so if transmutation is never added I will be sorely disappointed.

 

[TheDungen]

Neither is magic, but Satanists do that just fine.

You can also write a Magnum Opus on transmutation, so if transmutation is never added I will be sorely disappointed.

Well you already have one society based on magic can be perhaps play the others closer to reality? This dlc already added loads of fantasy content, enough is enough.
And you can easily write a book on something that does not exist, there are plenty of books on transmutation in reality despite it never having been accomplished.

@TheDungen: I'm personally not a fan of locking things to cultures/culture groups or making those determine how the AI thinks about important issues. Sure, historically there were some trends (e.g. Elective in Scandinavia), but after 100 years of alt history and Elective never being the law (or at least not having been the law for a very long time, if we count the early EG days) for a Swedish Norse "crusader state" somewhere I don't think that realm should be more likely to go Elective because of its culture than a Catholic Berber kingdom or a Greek Orthodox empire, all other things being equal. A strong ruler of a culture that historically tended towards Elective should still try to consolidate power as much as a ruler from a culture with no historical Elective realm, while the vassals of a ruler of a culture that didn't use Elective historically should still try to force Elective if they are able to (and dislike their liege enough, don't prefer some claimant/themself s the new ruler, etc.) about as frequently as someone from a culture that was Elective and should dislike the liege moving away from Elective just as much unless it directly benefits them.

100 years isn't a lot, and people can easily be nostalgic for something from their past 600 years later. Just look at some Scandinavians and vikings even to this day.
And I'm not locking anything I am just adding a slight bias.

It was literally one of the first things which players asked for when the DD about artefacts was revealed.

Actually I think selling them was before that.

 

[caedussl]

All great suggestions. Honesty and truly great. How many companies respond, address and implement community suggestions so soon after a game releases, let alone with all their DLCs too?

Paradox is one of my favourite companies in the world. They really know how to service their customers.

I was wondering if all that much could be done given CKII is nearing the end of its life (I hope it isn't though!). Puts a smile on my face on Monday morning.

 

[Axe99]

Cheers for the DD Doomdark and the extra info Meneth . Lots of great tweaks - love that incompetent court chaplains will be able to accuse innocents . Not sure what that says about me .

 

[Rossland05]

Also any chance we can look at a possible bug with treasury items disappearing after a succession. At first I thought i was just confusing my games but it just happened to one of my rulers where I lost half of my treasury items which is annoying after I've spent over a grand on my sword and it just ups and disappears. (Just a note I have checked relatives and non of them have it so the items have gone the way of the proverbial dodo!)

 

[Serenity84]

Also any chance we can look at a possible bug with treasury items disappearing after a succession.

Not a bug. There is a 5% or so chance of stuff disappearing. Maybe a design decision to reduce artifact clutter, but not a good one.

 

[FifthMonarchy]

I've not played as secretly one religion while professing another yet so can't be sure but I understand in that situation you can't induct your children/other family into your true faith. If that is the case that is a real shame, I would really appreciate the RP aspect of telling your heir on the verge of adulthood the truth about their heritage and your family's lonely guardianship of the flame etc.
Also, another vote for more love for non-Catholic faith features, I seem to always play Miaphysites or Nestorians these days and the former always claimed to be the original Christian monastics

 

[SigurdStormhand]

Something I would like to see is Learning being more important than Intrigue when framing someone for Heresy/Satanism. Also - I would like to be able to use my command of Theology to dodge a charge, and possibly implicate my accuser.

We English did that a lot, John Wyclif was especially good at it - when he was finally convicted all they did was ban him from Oxford! He spent the last two years of his life writing angry Lollard pamphlets in Yorkshire.

 

[FifthMonarchy]

Something I would like to sea is Learning being more important than Intrigue when framing someone for Heresy/Satanism. Also - I would like to be able to use my command of Theology to dodge a charge, and possibly implicate my accuser.

We English did that a lot, John Wyclif was especially good at it - when he was finally convicted all they did was ban him from Oxford! He spent the last two years of his life writing angry Lollard pamphlets in Yorkshire.

That's an excellent idea, anyone of any note in the Catholic world would get a chance to defend themselves before a church court or even the Pope if they were senior enough.

 

[Silversweeeper]

100 years isn't a lot, and people can easily be nostalgic for something from their past 600 years later. Just look at some Scandinavians and vikings even to this day.
And I'm not locking anything I am just adding a slight bias..

Sure, a hundred years isn't that long in the grand scheme of things, but I think that people should be far less accepting of the change if it happened recently and they didnt like it than they would be after a hundred years have passed. There will doubtlessly be tales about the "Good old days", with varying degrees of accuracy, but once it isn't in living memory I think that the grace period where the vassals can try to restore the old law without the council being depowered enough is over. Otherwise, it would make any title that ever has been Elective a liability to hold even if you have no real ties to that era as your vassals would be able to mess that title's laws up far more easily than a title that hasn't been Elective, which would make losing your throne even without the title going Elective at that time a nightmare as the AI might accept a subsequent faction demand for Elective and irrevokably ruin the title for you, if it was tied to the title.

If it instead was tied to culture, it would make it imperative to change culture away from the Elective cultures (provided you don't want to keep that law) and to replace or re-educate your vassals to your new culture because not doing so would make the Elective faction a constant danger. This would mean that a Rajput Sweden that recently changed to Primogeniture and revoked enough council power would be safe from the Elective faction despite its history while a German Mongolia that has no history of being Elective would get an Elective faction even with the council stripped of all rights because they are German and somehow that is more important than everything else, neiher of which makes a lot of sense.


As for locking versus a bias, I still think that a bias gets rather silly after a sufficiently long time has passed, especially as a culture-locked bias would create all kinds of issues. For example, if the heir to a Primogeniture ERE is educated by the Varangians and pick up Norse culture and manages to crush the inevitable revolt from his Greek vassals, the newly appointed Norse vassals shouldn't look at his laws and be more likely to push for Elective than a Greek vassal with the same opinion towards their liege (whether the liege is Greek, Norse, or something completely different), and he himself certainly shouldn't be even slightly inclined to give up a succession law that weakens him unless he is forced to.

Likewise, if half the vassals of an Elective England end up being French, their opinion of their liege (whether French, Anglo-Saxon, or something else) switching from Elective to something else should be met with "How dare he?" not "Well, those silly non-French customs were wrong!", unless they and their liege are joint foreign conquerors, and they should be just as willing to switch back to Elective as the Anglo-Saxon, German, or Danish vassals would be. And if a Primogeniture Castillian Castille gets a bad enough ruler and his Castillian vassals have the option to choose between Gavelkind and Elective, they should not be less inclined to try for Elective than the German vassals of a Primogeniture German Germany would be if their opinion of their liege was the same as the Castillian vassals' opinion of their liege.


Perhaps my first post was unclear as to what I meant, so let me rephrase it:

- William's Norman vassals (whether in Normandy pre-Conquest or created by William post-Conquest), liking William and not being part of the realm pre-Conquest, should not mind him throwing out pre-Conquest laws and seek to restore the pre-Conquest laws because they used to be in effect, not because they are Norman but because they have no ties to the old era, and should not be allowed to get around any normal restrictions on starting factions for Elective.

- The Anglo-Saxon vassals, hating William because he is a foreign conqueror, should find the law change to be bad because he is a foreign conqueror, not because they are Anglo-Saxon but because they have ties to the old era, and might possibly be permitted to try to restore the old laws more easily.

- Any other vassals that were around in England pre-Conquest should be in the Anglo-Saxon camp regarding William's foreign ways being bad and having the option to restore the old order, even if they are Norman. If their opinion vs. William is the same and low enough to join factions, a pre-Conquest Norman vassal of England and a pre-Conquest Anglo-Saxon vassal of England should both be equally likely to try joining the Elective faction.

- Any other vassals created by William, even if they are Anglo-Saxon, should be in the Norman camp and should not be getting access to a faction to restore Elective unless the normal conditions are satisfied. However, if the council is empowered enough to make the Elective faction an option, an upset Norman vassal with no ties to the old order and an upset Anglo-Saxon vassal with no ties to the old order should both be equally likely to try joining the Elective faction at the same opinion.