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CK2 Dev Diary #45: The Adjustment Bureau

Hi folks, I hope you all had a nice weekend!

Monks and Mystics has now been out for almost a week and we’ve been busy checking out your feedback and bug reports. As usual, some adjustments and additions will be made to the game in the upcoming patch 2.7.1, which should be ready in a few weeks (sorry, can’t be more specific than that.) It’s going to be a fairly substantial update… I can’t share the full patch log yet, but I can tell you about some of the bigger things we’re doing.

First off, there will be more risks and drawbacks to being a Devil Worshipper. As has been pointed out, they are a powerful type of Society and the rewards are great while the risks for members are rather low. Among other things, there will be more viciousness between members, a greater risk of discovery, and you’ll run the risk of giving your neighbors a reason to declare Holy War on you.

The Hunt Apostates is also being juiced up. The Court Chaplain will now be able to find more than just extremely suspicious characters and the penalties for being branded have been increased. For example, you now also gain a revocation reason on the target. When an apostate is dragged into your throne room, you now get to choose one of three options; let them go free, imprison them or burn them at the stake (something that the AI favors). It’s also possible, albeit rare, for your Court Chaplain to catch characters who are only a bit suspicious, secret members of another religion or - if the Court Chaplain isn’t the most talented - innocent.

Next up, the Hermetics will be given a proper use for all those strange Ingredients they can pick up. You will be presented with opportunities to spend various resources in order to improve the outcomes (or negate the negative effects) of a multitude of - mainly - Hermetic events.

Another issue related to Societies is that the subversive religious cults are too invisible. The AI will now handle both creating and running the Secret Religious Cults more effectively. Right now, it can feel as if you are the lone actor in the society, but with the patch your fellow AI members will make an effort to contribute. Also, the general costs of certain actions (like evoking sympathy) have been drastically reduced in order to make running the Society more manageable. We also aim to make the secret religious cult system more dynamic.

Then there’s the ability to give artifacts to other characters; it might not be something you folks have clamored for, but it was originally planned to be included in the expansion. It is a fairly simple action that gives you an opinion bonus from the more or less grateful recipient (similar to “Send Gift”.) You can only give away artifacts that are considered valuable by the recipient, so no Christian relics to pagans, etc (this is scripted in a new trigger in the artifacts).

CK2 - Give Artifact.png


Lastly, I think you will appreciate the Faction balancing and fixing that Alexander Oltner has been working on for a while on the side. No longer should you see everyone turn into Elective Monarchies and keep that succession law forever. AI characters will now also actually join Claimant factions as members. On a related note, the AI is now better at appointing powerful vassals to the Council.

- Massive update to Faction balance!
- The AI will now no longer join the Increase Council Power faction if they like their Liege 50 or more (down from 80 or more).
- Voter AI's will now be more likely to join Increase Council Power factions the more faction laws are set to 'Ruler', the steps are 2, 4 and 6.
- Non-Voter AI's will be less likely to join Increase Council Power factions the more faction laws are set to 'Council', the steps are 2, 4 and 6.
- The Increase Council Power faction has had its effect doubled (it now enacts two laws).
- The Increase Council Power faction now also revokes one level of 'Vassal Wars' laws.
- The AI is more inclined to join the Increase Council Power faction if their liege has enacted a 'Vassal War' law.

- The AI no longer wants to institute Elective Monarchy unless all council powers are enacted (except for Council Authority).
- The AI is less likely to join the Elective faction if their liege has Gavelkind succession.
- The AI is less likely to join the Elective faction unless their liege is a tyrant.

- The independence faction is more attractive to the AI if their liege is a Tyrant.

- The AI in now more inclined to start and join the Gavelkind faction.
- Discontent Councilors are very inclined to join the Gavelkind faction if the liege does not have all council powers enacted, if all powers are enacted they will prefer the Elective faction.

- The AI is now much more likely to stay by their backed Claimants.
- The AI is slightly more inclined to start factions backing women.
- Having bad opinion of your liege now makes the AI more likely to back a claimant.
- The AI is way more likely to back claimants that are part of their Society.
- The AI is way more likely to back a claimant if their liege is a tyrant.
- The AI is way more likely to back a claimant if they hate their liege.
- Culture is now less of a factor for the AI when backing claimants.
- The AI might join claimant factions even if they themselves have a claim on the same title, but it is still rare.
- The AI will now not back claimants if they like their liege by 40 or more (used to be 50 or more).
- Being a Sayyid/Mirza now only matters if the claimant is also Muslim.
- Having better opinion of the proposed Claimant now matters much more for the AI.
- More traits now affect the AI chances of joining the Claimant faction.
- The AI is now less likely to start another Claimant faction war if their liege is already fighting in another Claimant faction war.

- The Overthrow Liege faction is now unattractive to the AI if it is backing a claimant already.
- The AI will no longer form the Overthrow Liege faction if their liege is not a tyrant.
- The AI will now only use the Overthrow Liege faction if they hate their liege (-40 or lower for most AI's).
- The Overthrow Liege faction will now also enact two Council Power laws upon success.
- The Overthrow Liege faction will now only institute Elective monarchy if all Council Power laws are set to 'Council'.

- The Overthrow Liege faction now revokes any active vassal war laws.

That’s all for now. Next week, there will either be a dev diary on the feature survey results or another one on the subject of patch 2.7.1. Oh, and don’t miss today’s CK2 livestreams, starting at 16:00 CET!
 
That system is unnecessarily complicated and taxes the game unnecessarily.

Perhaps it is a bit complicated, and it obviously would affect performance slightly (because any addition, no matter how small, will do so), in which case I'd suggest the slightly less complicated version of any vassal that does not have the "Foreign conqueror" (or "Usurped my title", etc.) opinion modifier is barred from an easy Elective faction following a conquest, and if there is no conquest involved (e.g. the HRE changes to Primogeniture from Elective because the Kaiser wanted to or got a faction for it) then a flag is set on the title (that is wiped on conquest) that allows all vassals to join the Elective factions even with a (partially or fully) depowered council/higher CA for a certain number of years after that. A century or so should be plenty, as if the ruler still has a lot of centralized power and hasn't been forced to restore Elective then it should be harder to force that law through as it is no longer in living memory and giving up control of the succession is a rather large concession compared to letting your council vote on wars or imprisonments.

Regardless, I'd much rather have no such easy way to restore Elective if someone switches away from it than have an exception, a bias, or railroading towards picking certain succession laws or joining certain succession law factions under otherwise identical circumstances based on culture.
 
Perhaps it is a bit complicated, and it obviously would affect performance slightly (because any addition, no matter how small, will do so), in which case I'd suggest the slightly less complicated version of any vassal that does not have the "Foreign conqueror" (or "Usurped my title", etc.) opinion modifier is barred from an easy Elective faction following a conquest, and if there is no conquest involved (e.g. the HRE changes to Primogeniture from Elective because the Kaiser wanted to or got a faction for it) then a flag is set on the title (that is wiped on conquest) that allows all vassals to join the Elective factions even with a (partially or fully) depowered council/higher CA for a certain number of years after that. A century or so should be plenty, as if the ruler still has a lot of centralized power and hasn't been forced to restore Elective then it should be harder to force that law through as it is no longer in living memory and giving up control of the succession is a rather large concession compared to letting your council vote on wars or imprisonments.

Regardless, I'd much rather have no such easy way to restore Elective if someone switches away from it than have an exception, a bias, or railroading towards picking certain succession laws or joining certain succession law factions under otherwise identical circumstances based on culture.
No such easy way? I would say that it should be even easier, in fact I would say that the game should automatically switch you to elective whenever a ruler is installed by faction demand, the nobles have just installed a king they aren't going to give that right up without a fight. Unless you maintain power very actively it should start to decay.
 
Great changes, you know what's missing though. Gnostics. I know they were cut, but gnostic secret societies are something I really want to see in the game. I hope the next dev diary touches on that!
 
Is that Ironman friendly, though?
Of course not. I meant it as a suggestion on how they could fix it, and that I have basically playtested it extensively in my mod.
 
No such easy way? I would say that it should be even easier, in fact I would say that the game should automatically switch you to elective whenever a ruler is installed by faction demand, the nobles have just installed a king they aren't going to give that right up without a fight. Unless you maintain power very actively it should start to decay.

I disagree. A claimant faction (except under Elective) is based around the idea of the claimant having a connection of some kind to a previous ruler, so the claimant faction resulting in that condition being thrown out the window would be strange, especially if the faction is led by the claimant but even if it is not, and as there is no way to opt out of having your claim pushed by someone else (and no way to assume direct control of the faction, for that matter) while you arrange an accident for your dear brother it would be rather bad if the other vassals could go "Here's your brother's kingdom! By the way, we will be electing the next heir, and now everyone can try to faction for the kingdom, because Elective!". While the claimant faction doesn't follow the succession law with its demand (unless the former ruler deposed the lawful ruler), it still is all about right of blood (again unless the title already is Elective).

If it is a takeover faction, it makes more sense for the vassals to try to install Elective (and they currently do). However, given that it can take a kingdom or empire that has been under absolute rulership for generations and change the most important law (which can be a pain to switch back, as some imprisoned traitorous claimant is extremely unlikely to have positive opinion and revoking everything from him will upset everyone else) at once instead of the power of the ruler being slightly eroded but still not completely gone, which still would make the vassals feel that the new way of doing things is better for them than the old ways, it is incredibly powerful and makes it so that someone that wants anything but Elective (or other succession laws where the vassals have a say) is basically never going to be entertaining the notion of stepping aside and retaking the throne later because it would make the title Elective and changing out of that can be a pain.
 
I disagree. A claimant faction (except under Elective) is based around the idea of the claimant having a connection of some kind to a previous ruler, so the claimant faction resulting in that condition being thrown out the window would be strange, especially if the faction is led by the claimant but even if it is not, and as there is no way to opt out of having your claim pushed by someone else (and no way to assume direct control of the faction, for that matter) while you arrange an accident for your dear brother it would be rather bad if the other vassals could go "Here's your brother's kingdom! By the way, we will be electing the next heir, and now everyone can try to faction for the kingdom, because Elective!". While the claimant faction doesn't follow the succession law with its demand (unless the former ruler deposed the lawful ruler), it still is all about right of blood (again unless the title already is Elective).

If it is a takeover faction, it makes more sense for the vassals to try to install Elective (and they currently do). However, given that it can take a kingdom or empire that has been under absolute rulership for generations and change the most important law (which can be a pain to switch back, as some imprisoned traitorous claimant is extremely unlikely to have positive opinion and revoking everything from him will upset everyone else) at once instead of the power of the ruler being slightly eroded but still not completely gone, which still would make the vassals feel that the new way of doing things is better for them than the old ways, it is incredibly powerful and makes it so that someone that wants anything but Elective (or other succession laws where the vassals have a say) is basically never going to be entertaining the notion of stepping aside and retaking the throne later because it would make the title Elective and changing out of that can be a pain.
Yeah true installing a ruler of the same dynasty should only force tanistary succession, intalling one of a different dynasty should however force full on elective. The thing is that vassals should not be like "Well we installed one king so now we're fine with never having a say in who rules the kingdom ever again"
 
Well you only know their names. Apprehending them might be a bit of a problem.
Not sure if such an information should automatically reveal them as satanists but instead give them a suspected satanist modifier which lowers the opinion of others not my as much and doesn't allow for wars and apprehending.

This would be a nice way to make Dominicans more interesting. Let them be the only one who can torture and follow up on leads.
Maybe a chance of x% that they got marked as suspicious, depending on yours and their stats + a bit randomness as always.
So if successful you can go on hunting the marked ones

The usual problem with torture though how do you verify the information? He could be making stuff up to save his own hide. In fact the only thing torture is really good for is making someone confess to what the torturer want them to confess. For an example say you want to frame the duke of burgundy as a heretic, then torture is a great tool for making someone say he is.
But try to imagine:
- You besieging constantinople
- you caught some sons/daughters
- torture one of them and cut off an arm
- the arm now is an artifact in your treasury
- send the Basileus' daughters arm with a threat
- x% chance (based on several stats and traits) Basileus will give up war or is more likely to agree white peace
 
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Well, nice to read, that all this unfinished mechanics, bad balance between societies and lack of content will be fixed.
The question is... Why you sell unfinishied and unbalanced dlc? No offence.... but in that moment it is clearly unfinished. And this dev.dieary prove it. Rebalancing is one thing, but hermetics ingredient mechanic? "good" societies actions? Societies for pagans? All this... must be in dlc before patch, not after.

Still it good, that all this will be fixed soon...
 
Please add more Historical societies and allow to possibility to play as Holy orders or theocracies or even as societies .... kind of like the merchant republics ...

  • The Pythagoreans
  • Knight orders
  • The Assassins
  • The Waldensians
  • Manichaeism
  • The Cathars
  • Hermetism
  • Cabalists
  • Mithraism
  • Sufism
  • Neoplatonism
  • Guru type ashram
  • Orphir
  • Chaldean oracles
  • Gnosticism
  • Classic GrecoRoman Religion

Etc...
Also improve the maps with societies distribution and eventually how to implement societies wars ? Not with armies but with control zones eventually.

Oh and waiting for the ASIA Expansion ^^
 
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The main things I personally want added are:
1. More pagan societies (possibly devoted to individual gods and focusing on different stats; i.e Odin followers getting wisdom, Tor followers getting martial and strength, and Freyr followers getting stewardship)
2. The ability to form secret religious pagan societies
3. More interesting normal societies
4. Heretical societies
 
The main things I personally want added are:
1. More pagan societies (possibly devoted to individual gods and focusing on different stats; i.e Odin followers getting wisdom, Tor followers getting martial and strength, and Freyr followers getting stewardship)
2. The ability to form secret religious pagan societies
3. More interesting normal societies
4. Heretical societies
Except norse paganism didn't work like that, you did not have personal gods, the gods administered spheres of influence. Everyone prayed to njord when sailing, to tyr for war, to frey for a good harvest. Sure some people because of their professions would seek some gods more often that others, a warrior would obviously ask tyr for favour more often than a farmer, a fisherman or trader njord and so on. I would rather say that it could add some "professions" which are currently not in the game, that of a runic scholar (self explanatory, a very respected thing to be) and that of seidsman (magician, a very controversial thing to be, if not outright heretical). I really don't get why they didn't add the latter instead of Hel worshippers, sometime I feel like they don't bother doing research any more.

Oh and maybee a skaldic brethren, bragging... eh poetry... was after all respected talent in norse society.
 
I'd love more "normal" societies. Like the Benedictine's and Dominicans are focused around Theology/Learning. What about starting a Dueling Society if you're a Duelist/War focused, a Hunting Club ( where you can hunt the most dangerous kind if you're cruel/cannibal ) or even Diplomacy based societies where you can improve diplomatic relations with neighbours, vassals and lieges.
 
Is there a society that hunts devil worshippers? Because I feel like that would be cool, and also counteract the fact that half of the world population at any one time is a devil worshiper. I mean, my kids are disappearing without a trace left and right, I feel like this is a good reason to start a witch hunt.
 
From their description. the Dominican monks should do a bit of that, but they don't appear to have any mechanics for it.
In some of the threads about giving some more differentiation between the Benedictines and the Dominicans, I suggested replacing one of their abilities with the ability to request excommunication on known (or possibly suspected) apostates and wicked priests without paying piety and at a higher success rate.
 
Devs, can you make wearing clothing of the society optional?
Like make a button to undress secret society clothing when right clicking your character.

It makes no sense to have secret society, but clothes that scream that you are part of secret society.
(Looks at satanist leader clothing)
 
What bug is this? My current game is about 350 years into a CM start as Curonia and I haven't have this problem happen to me, or any of the realms near me. The only Feudal ex-tribes I've seen have been ones that have either turned Catholic first or the rare Norse OPM in Feudal Ireland that inherited while only holding a castle.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...l-successor-inherits-as-feudal-ruler.1003678/ I made the bug report, but it hasn't been acknowledge by the team yet. Hopefully they are aware of it, as it is a serious problem. A hotfix for some of these bugs would be awesome, if at all possible.

I'm very happy about the elective and claimant faction changes. THANK YOU!
 
It makes no sense to have secret society, but clothes that scream that you are part of secret society.
(Looks at satanist leader clothing)

While I agree about wanting the ability to hide that clothing, secret society clothing can only be seen my other members of said society, so it doesn't give them away. Basically, they only wear those for important occasions: weddings, funerals, and black masses to the lord of flies.
 
Would it be possible to add a way to rename items in your Treasury? Either once on creation or possibly once on possession? As I find it slightly annoying that all the crowns and stuff are called "Crown of Pearls" or "Golden Sword". Would add a lot of flavour and depth to have unique, customisable relics and objects. And for a bit more of stretch would there be any way to have the wearable objects, such as crowns, displayed on characters? This would in turn add anextra level of detail that would be fantastic! Thanks