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schwarherz

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Jun 3, 2012
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I've been tossing around an idea in my head for a while now to re-do the paganism in-game and the way they behave/reform in general. I don't want to put too much time/effort into it if no one else is interested. The general gist of the idea is as follows:

Pagan religions would no longer reform via the big obnoxious button. Instead religions would reform via event with factors and player choice/socioeconomic/internal religious factors determining what sort of reform structure they have. E.G. The norse would be more prone to reforming to a system like the current one where the religion head is a secondary title capable of being held by a secular ruler (we'll call this the tribal option). the Celts would be more prone to reforming into a "papal" system (we'll call this the catholic option). The Slavs would be more likely to reform into an autocephalous system (we'll call this the orthodox option), and the Zunists would be most likely to reform to a system resembling the caliphates (we'll call this the muslim option, though I worry it might be too close to the tribal option). However, events as the religion as a whole moves toward reformation can dramatically affect the end result, causing any of them to potentially end with any system.

The religions themselves would also need tweaked to represent the actual beliefs and practices of the people following them without requiring a suspension of disbelief so far as the supernatural is concerned. Basically to bring them more in line with the way the "mainstream" religions are portrayed and out of "ha ha look at what those funny pagans believe(d)" territory (don't worry, sacrifices/blots would be kept). Each type of pagan religion (group for lack of better term. Not to be confused with religion_group) would gain "cults" geared toward the specific deities of their pantheons (possibly using the mechanics introduced in MnM, though I haven't had much time to look into how they work yet) and their own "devil worshiper" society.

Thoughts? Opinions? Ideas? Please let me know. Like I said, I've been tossing this around in my head for quite some time.

EDIT: Not an April Fools joke. I honestly forgot what today was and I don't really participate in that.
 
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I like the sound of it. Paganism feels a bit to forced right now with how to reform, especially since some religions have holy sites that make very little sense (although to be fair, I don't think anywhere would've made much sense with some religions)
 
why a sub-mod?
Mostly because I don't want to directly modify the main mod until I know I have something that works. I learned my lesson from the last few projects of mine that became main mod features. Also the scope of this is large enough that modifying the main mod directly could break other things accidentally. I want to avoid that if possible
 
Mostly because I don't want to directly modify the main mod until I know I have something that works. I learned my lesson from the last few projects of mine that became main mod features. Also the scope of this is large enough that modifying the main mod directly could break other things accidentally. I want to avoid that if possible

that's why git branches exist. i'd advise you use that, since we're changing a lot of filese these days...
otherwise it could become a real pain to track everything.
 
Sounds interesting.
I mostly play Pagans, so I'd definitely find this cool :)
 
that's why git branches exist. i'd advise you use that, since we're changing a lot of filese these days...
otherwise it could become a real pain to track everything.
I suppose I could do þat...I'll consider it. Eiþer way, I'll leave þis here eiþer for suggestions or motivational purposes. Fair warning to all: It will probably take a significant amount of time as I'm moving about 130 miles away in about a week.
 
Sounds like a very nice addition
 
I agree its a good idea and the current system does suck. Im not sure that having holy sites as a key catalyst for any religion reformation. I agree that they should impact the strength of the religion nut not reformation.
 
I agree its a good idea and the current system does suck. Im not sure that having holy sites as a key catalyst for any religion reformation. I agree that they should impact the strength of the religion nut not reformation.
I completely agree. þat is why I'm considering event driven. Eiþer a sufficiently high ranking priest of a religion (priest-king?) or a sufficiently large realm (non-nomadic empire tier perhaps) being a more "natural" catalyst. þe reformation itself should be event driven, leading to potential schisms wiþin þe new reformed faiþ from þe get-go. For example (dropping þ for readability), say an event asks whether religious control should be centralized or regional (catholic or orthodox option). Realms that choose the catholic option gain the equivalent of the "latin rites" trait, realms that choose the orthodox option gain the equivalent of the "greek rites" trait. As the reform process goes on, (keep in mind this is brainstorming here, I don't have anything coded out for it yet) one "wins out" somehow and the other becomes a heresy.
 
Sounds like a solid design, I'd really love to see this become reality :)



Though this "þ" þing is really getting out of hand, it starts messing with my head - þanks for þat ^^
 
Well, you can count me among those who would find this an interesting idea.

Although, I do find the date at which this has been floated to be a bit suspect.
 
Well, you can count me among those who would find this an interesting idea.

Although, I do find the date at which this has been floated to be a bit suspect.
If it helps, I don't usually participate in April Fools tomfoolery. Had a few bad experiences when I was younger that pretty much ruined it for me.
 
If it helps, I don't usually participate in April Fools tomfoolery. Had a few bad experiences when I was younger that pretty much ruined it for me.
I figured and that particular comment was meant to be a bit of humor. I sometimes forget how poorly that can sometimes translate via pure text. Should have added a winking emoji or something.
 
I think this sounds amazing, although I think it would be better if the Church of Zun acted like say, the Catholic Church, being a church and not a Caliphate, with a 'Solar Keeper" as the "Pope", and not the Celts, @schwarherz.

My reasoning is this - The Reformed Zunist is "The Church of Zun", their Holy Order are the "Knights of the Sun", etc. Sounds more like a Papacy to me, IMHO.

Another reason is because Zunists are so far away from the Catholics, while the Celts are right next to them - You'd have two "Papacy" type things going on in such a "small" area. Meanwhile, the Church of Zun could spread into India/Persia, so both sides of the map could have some fun with Cardinals (Sun Watchers?) and whatnot.

Maybe, just maybe, if you're willing, perhaps you could rename the trait "Warrior of the Sun" to "Solar Exalted", or something?

I'd be willing to help make some changes to the Zunist faith as well - I'll admit, before I bought the game (Yes I was once a dirty filthy... You know what), I had edited the Zunist faith heavily - Mostly allowing the option to use the Judgement of Zun option on non-vassals as well as making it more fatal, as well as allowing them to Raid.. Tournaments as well for reformed Zunists, if only to keep the 'Knightly' flavor.

Sadly my PC died -hard- on me, so I don't have those files anymore, although if you're willing to let me help you, I'd be more than willing to work on it again. :)

(Oh dear Zun, please say yes.)
 
Idea worth looking into: Can a reformed religion have no religion head? If so, I'm adding that to the "options" as the "anarchy option"
 
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I think this sounds amazing, although I think it would be better if the Church of Zun acted like say, the Catholic Church, being a church and not a Caliphate, with a 'Solar Keeper" as the "Pope", and not the Celts, @schwarherz.

My reasoning is this - The Reformed Zunist is "The Church of Zun", their Holy Order are the "Knights of the Sun", etc. Sounds more like a Papacy to me, IMHO.

Another reason is because Zunists are so far away from the Catholics, while the Celts are right next to them - You'd have two "Papacy" type things going on in such a "small" area. Meanwhile, the Church of Zun could spread into India/Persia, so both sides of the map could have some fun with Cardinals (Sun Watchers?) and whatnot.

Maybe, just maybe, if you're willing, perhaps you could rename the trait "Warrior of the Sun" to "Solar Exalted", or something?

I'd be willing to help make some changes to the Zunist faith as well - I'll admit, before I bought the game (Yes I was once a dirty filthy... You know what), I had edited the Zunist faith heavily - Mostly allowing the option to use the Judgement of Zun option on non-vassals as well as making it more fatal, as well as allowing them to Raid.. Tournaments as well for reformed Zunists, if only to keep the 'Knightly' flavor.

Sadly my PC died -hard- on me, so I don't have those files anymore, although if you're willing to let me help you, I'd be more than willing to work on it again. :)

(Oh dear Zun, please say yes.)
Hmmm I'll have to think about that. The reason I said Zunists more likely to reform to a muslim option is because the culture and surrounding cultures are familiar with that type or religious rule. Similarly, Celtic pagans I said would probably reform into the catholic option because 1) that's the type of religious leadership they're used to from Catholic influence and 2) Druids are usually described as a "council" which sounds, to me, a lot like the College of Cardinals.
 
Right, that makes sense. Although perhaps a council would be better fitting a more 'autocephalous' faith? The 'head' of the Religion would be, at best, a 'First among equals' or something.

Either way, my offer stands to help edit the Zunists, if you want to take me up on that. :)