AP discrepancy between M4A1 and M4A3

[Tankhunter__]

The 75mm Sherman variants appear to have different AP values, despite using the same guns in the same time period. The Jumbo M4A3 75(w) has 11AP. The M4A1(and Scottish Sherman II) have 10AP. Is there any reason for this? It's not like Wargame where the newer tank is using newer/better ammunition, since they'd presumably be using the same ammo in the June 1944 time period.

The armor difference makes sense, since the M4A3 hull has thicker frontal plate and is sloped better IIRC. The AP difference doesn't make any sense. Can anyone give a reason why they should have different AP values for their main gun?

 

[GenosseKommissar]

It's a slightly longer barreled gun then on the M4A1 (hence the 75W) designation, so you know, the propellant in the shell has actually more time to accerlate it..

 

[UltimateIdiot]

It's a slightly longer barreled gun then on the M4A1 (hence the 75W) designation, so you know, the propellant in the shell has actually more time to accerlate it..

It's the same M3 75mm. "75" serves to distinguish it from the 76 mm variant which does have a longer barrel. The "(W)" stands for wet stowage.

 

[GenosseKommissar]

Yes, you're right, I thought m4a1 used the M2

 

[Tankhunter__]

It's a slightly longer barreled gun then on the M4A1 (hence the 75W) designation, so you know, the propellant in the shell has actually more time to accerlate it..

Contrary to what tank encyclopedia says(I'll assume that was the source you used, as they're the only ones that claim the same thing), the Sherman was never equipped with the M2 75mm gun from the M3 Lee. All 75mm-armed Shermans carried the M3 75mm L/40 gun. They share the same weapon.

 

[IronHat]

I wanted to say better ammunition, but then both tank should be able to use the improved ammo.

 

[Tankhunter__]

I wanted to say better ammunition, but then both tank should be able to use the improved ammo.

That'd be the Wargame argument since the M4A3 75W is a mid-late 1943 mark whereas the M4A1 is like mid 1942. However, considering these are M4A1s in use during the June-August timeframe of the game, that argument doesn't hold water because both tanks should have it(as you said).

 

[Graphic]

That'd be the Wargame argument since the M4A3 75W is a mid-late 1943 mark whereas the M4A1 is like mid 1942. However, considering these are M4A1s in use during the June-August timeframe of the game, that argument doesn't hold water because both tanks should have it(as you said).

In fact it would be nothing but an unnecessary supply strain to deliver inferior ammo just for M4A1s to use. Makes no sense no matter how you slice it.

 

[Vyllis]

Notice that Eugen labelled them as M3 (early) and M3 (late) in the armoury.

 

[Baane]

Notice that Eugen labelled them as M3 (early) and M3 (late) in the armoury.

The only difference would be if the M4A1 used the older solid shot round, and the M4A3 used the newer capped ammunition. In any case, this is bupkis; both tanks had the capacity to fire the same ammo. This is arbitrary.

 

[King of Zoot]

Maybe it's an abstraction of stabiliser use in the later tanks? Was 3AD one of the divisions that actually used the stabiliser?

 

[Baane]

An increase in shell performance isn't a good abstraction for proper usage of the stabilizer.

 

[Max_Damage]

Shermans have gotten new ammo presumably APCR sabots.

 

[Graphic]

Maybe it's an abstraction of stabiliser use in the later tanks? Was 3AD one of the divisions that actually used the stabiliser?

Why would a stabilizer give the ammo more AP power?

 

[UltimateIdiot]

Shermans have gotten new ammo presumably APCR sabots.

Did Shermans with 75mm use HVAP? I was under the impression it was for the 76mm cannons in M10's and wasn't fielded in large quantities. Even then it's weird as the same ammo could be used in M4A1's and M4A3's.
(Also I don't think APCR is really a "sabot" round, a sabot round is a sub-caliber round, i.e: something that has a lower caliber than the gun it is being shot out of.)

 

[sexualspaghetti]

How's is the German Firefly supposed to slap your sh*t in phase a if you can pen it at 1000m? Apparently you guys aren't familiar with dat french flavor.

 

[Tankhunter__]

Shermans have gotten new ammo presumably APCR sabots.

If so, all the Shermans in theater should have access to it.

 

[Graphic]

How's is the German Firefly supposed to slap your sh*t in phase a if you can pen it at 1000m? Apparently you guys aren't familiar with dat french flavor. The same flavor that brought us no m18s but m22 locusts and neutered the Abrams of wargame...

Can we have one thread about the US that doesn't turn into M18 whine?

 

[Baane]

Did Shermans with 75mm use HVAP? I was under the impression it was for the 76mm cannons in M10's and wasn't fielded in large quantities. Even then it's weird as the same ammo could be used in M4A1's and M4A3's.
(Also I don't think APCR is really a "sabot" round, a sabot round is a sub-caliber round, i.e: something that has a lower caliber than the gun it is being shot out of.)

An experimental round was developed, but never fielded. It was called the T45 Shot.

 

[sexualspaghetti]

Can we have one thread about the US that doesn't turn into M18 whine?

M18 whine removed, boss. But I'd be curious to know why the 10ap instead of 11ap. Keep the accuracy lower if need be but no good reason to take away ap.