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CK2 Dev Diary #51: The Roof of the World

Hi folks!

PDXCON 2017 is over and it was fantastic to meet so many of you! I got a lot of interesting suggestions and feedback on our games, including, of course, CK2. So, a special thank you goes out to those of you who were there!

Now then, let’s talk a bit about those ugly gray areas on the map; the wastelands. Aesthetically, I’ve never liked the gray color of wasteland provinces in the non-Terrain map modes, so I took some time to change it so that wasteland is now always shown as Terrain, regardless of map mode (we might add options for this in the settings. Let me know what you think!)

Northern Siberia and the Sahara deserve to be wasteland; it’s difficult to do anything more about that (we’ve already twisted and manipulated the map projection, etc.) However, the Himalayas and the vast Tibetan plateau are a different story… Though mountainous, the region contains many important population centers and religious sites and has a rich history of interaction with China, India and Central Asia. In essence, the only reason it’s a “wasteland” in CK2 is that we haven’t prioritized doing it justice.

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Tibet, 1066. Note that any green Coat of Arms are placeholders.


I’ve never been happy with the way the eastern edge of the map feels like the edge of the world when, in fact, it should be a dynamic hub connecting at least four major civilizations (China, India, the Steppe Nomads and the Islamic world.) Well, the time to do something about that is now! In our working build, we have added the necessary provinces, new cultures (Bodpa, Tangut and Nepalese), new religions (Bön and Khurmazta), and title history for the entire region.

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The Himalayan mountains, 867.

The Bön religion is a pagan faith which functionally has many similarities with the Romuvan and Buddhist religions: It is very hard to convert, has access to Gavelkind, and unlike other pagan faiths it can not be reformed (though this might change in the future.) Instead, it starts off with the ability to designate heirs, just like Buddhists. It has also got a Patron Deity system like that of the Hindus and the “defensive” Pagans.

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Purang, one of the Bön religion's Holy Sites.


In addition, we are looking over the great Muslim conquerors (Sabuktigin, Seljuq and Timur) to make sure they usually rise, toning down the Indian Holy Orders and making them creatable (rather than existing from the start.) We also plan to add or expand on adventurers for more generic conquests into and out of the subcontinent especially.

There is more, but that would be revealing too much too soon. :) Stay tuned for the next dev diary!

EDIT: Todays livestreams are cancelled due to attrition from PDXCON.
 
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Many cheers for the addition of Tibet!

But a hundred boos for the PRC-style spelling of most Tibetan place names. Beside any political implications, the PRC romanisations are much less intuitive for English (and other Eurolang) speakers. Almost nobody's going to have any idea what "Coqen" is supposed to sound like. Arumba's poor mouth is going to go numb.

Coqen = Tsochen
Gerze = Gertse
Qamdo = Chamdo

etc. Most Western scholars use the THL romanisation standard, which basically a systematisation of the familiar, conventional spellings.
 
Many cheers for the addition of Tibet!

But a hundred boos for the PRC-style spelling of most Tibetan place names. Beside any political implications, the PRC romanisations are much less intuitive for English (and other Eurolang) speakers. Almost nobody's going to have any idea what "Coqen" is supposed to sound like. Arumba's poor mouth is going to go numb.

Coqen = Tsochen
Gerze = Gertse
Qamdo = Chamdo

etc. Most Western scholars use the THL romanisation standard, which basically a systematisation of the familiar, conventional spellings.
Eh, since the game starts during the time of Tibetan Empire, IMO Wylie would be more accurate than any 20th century phonetic romanization





:p
 
I'm really excited for this addition to the map! There's only one thing about this dev diary that's really bothering me...

the Sahara deserve to be wasteland; it’s difficult to do anything more about that
This is definitely not true! The Sahara region has had some of the least attention so far and has plenty of reworking and map filling that can be done. A rework of Mali, Adding more depth to the extremely weak northern African coast which is constantly being invaded by Christians currently, All the extra land south of the Sahara that was inhabited and played major roles in trans Saharan trade, if the map border just reached the coast in western Africa there would be room for plenty of exciting kingdoms and a much better represent the Muslim world during the games timeframe. I really hope something is done to the region before the end of ck2 dlc.

Oh also I wonder how nomads will act will all this newly conquerable land and new path into India. I'm a little worried that crossing the Himalayas will be easier than it should be but I'm not too worried about the AI managing to do it. I still think the cast system being tied into Buddhism is weird. It'll be weird when Tibetans in late start dates will have Indian casts.
 
This is definitely not true! The Sahara region has had some of the least attention so far and has plenty of reworking and map filling that can be done.

I think Sahara here literally mean the Sahara desert. Having a passable or inhabited Sahara makes no sense, which is not the same thing as saying the area couldn't use some map work. Ibn Battuta's Legacy is an excellent mod which does this in a plausible way while leaving the Sahara mostly uninhabited.

And while West Africa in particular is incredibly underdeveloped, I'm not sure expanding the map to the coast would be the best idea. That region is enormous (similar in size to Europe or india) and there's no way the CK2 map projection could do it justice. Simply adding a trans sahara trade route and enough routes across the sahara to make it vaguely dynamic would go a huge way towards justifying the currently lacklustre inclusion of Mali.
 
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I, for one, say no to China for it is historically inaccurate!

I was fine with watching England flip to Sunni, reforming the Roman Empire, fighting the Aztecs, boning Jeanne d'Arc, fighting Cthulhu, becoming the Saoshyant, kung fu Elephant battles, straight up made up kingdoms/empires, seducing every queen & princess in the game despite being an infirm-crippled-inbred 70 year old, fighting constant wars with some adventurer that somehow got enough money to fight the entire empire, immortality, the gates of hell, demonic possession, holy possession, and people going around wearing giant skull masks in public.

But China? China is too damn far! I mean I'm going to buy it anyway like everyone else will but I'm letting you know I'm not buying it! I'm mad as hell, and I'm not gonna take it anymore!

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!
 
I, for one, say no to China for it is historically inaccurate!

I was fine with watching England flip to Sunni, reforming the Roman Empire, fighting the Aztecs, boning Jeanne d'Arc, fighting Cthulhu, becoming the Saoshyant, kung fu Elephant battles, straight up made up kingdoms/empires, seducing every queen & princess in the game despite being an infirm-crippled-inbred 70 year old, fighting constant wars with some adventurer that somehow got enough money to fight the entire empire, immortality, the gates of hell, demonic possession, holy possession, and people going around wearing giant skull masks in public.

But China? China is too damn far! I mean I'm going to buy it anyway like everyone else will but I'm letting you know I'm not buying it! I'm mad as hell, and I'm not gonna take it anymore!

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!
Thank you.
Your post is so far the best advocating in favor of the addition of China to the game.

It should silent all of those who oppose it because of historical accuracy.

Unfortunately, for a long time now, CK2 has not been a historical game anymore, but rather a fantasy game.
So history is irrelevant.
 
Now the big question is how the Lama kings of the Phagmodrupa dynasty, that is around in 1337 will be handled? Just a normal dynasty? Unplayable theocracy? Or it's own thing (though not sure if making a own thing is worth it for a single dynasty). Also in 1337 they really were just a minor faction, so omitting them could even be a solution. Though a Lama kingdom being something possible to become for any Tibetan dynasty would be interesting, although maybe not really historically correct, since the age of powerful Lamas really was only beginning near the end of the CK 2 time span.
 
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Awesome... 5 years of development on Crusader Kings II concludes with no attention given to the Crusades.

Nobody said anywhere it was their conclusion. And you know what, Crusader Kings II stopped being all about Crusades a long time ago, and it's a much better game for it.

Europa Universalis III ended with an ASIAN expansion. Saw no one complaining.

EDIT: Forgot to mention the major point: the core of the DLC hasn't even ;)been revealed yet.
 
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Nobody said anywhere it was their conclusion. And you know what, Crusader Kings II stopped being all about Crusades a long time ago, and it's a much better game for it.

Europa Universalis III ended with an ASIAN expansion. Saw no one complaining.
Well, there were complaints to the expansion itself, but not to the idea of one, nor to it being Asia-centric ;) Divine Wind is why I prefer the new DLC model (with all its issues) to the old expansion system :p
 
Well, there were complaints to the expansion itself, but not to the idea of one, nor to it being Asia-centric ;) Divine Wind is why I prefer the new DLC model (with all its issues) to the old expansion system :p

The good old times where we need to buy the expansion to get the new patches...
 
The good old times where we need to buy the expansion to get the new patches...

You got patches until a new expansion got released..while it was much cheaper altogether....

My argument is as correct as yours. ;)