CK2 Dev Diary #52: Rhythm is a Lancer

[Zsrai]

It sounds like a lot of people would just prefer to outright purchase the Claim (paying someone to fabricate the documents) say on the county title screen and have the costs/penalties/restrictions built into that.

Personally I'm not quite sure what I think of the additional CB but with game rules I'm not too worried.

That's pretty much what CK1 did actually. They cost Prestige (less if you had a "claim", which you basically got by occupying the land or having a title revoked)

I don't agree, either from a historic or a game perspective. With a L.6 castle you are talking Krak des Chevaliers or Chateau Galliard; armies of 30,000+ failed to assault such places. It really doesn't matter if you have an army of 100,000; as long as the garrison is fit, fed and has high morale such places are essentially un-assaultable. That is their purpose. You simply have to spend time and resources to "reduce" them before they will fall - or pull off a coup of intrigue or trickery. Having such places injects a stability that gives better gameplay, IMO.

It will also keep the AI from burning through their armies by assaulting those big beefy castles just because they have a giant event stack, I hope.

 

[TheDungen]

I would have prefered if things were more gradual. In one war you may force your enemy to release a duchy as defeacto independent, in the next one you make that duchy dependent on you (tributary or something like SOI) then in the one following that you actually make them a defacto vassal. Or along these lines.
In my own personal mod I made is so that you can get a claim to a title by winning a tributary war against them, a weak claim if you are the same tier of higher or a strong claim if you are a lower tier. But that's not perfect, at least not the weak claims, you shouldn't actually take the title but vassalize the holder. All in all the line between tributary and vassal needs to be blurred a lot more. Feudalism is pretty much a protection racket. Every vassal relationship could be sorted on a 1-10 spectrum where 1 is a tributary and 10 is a fully integrated vassal (who you can raise troops from rather than call as a vassal, yes this stuff really ought to be on a case to case basis).

 

[Gans]

I don't agree, either from a historic or a game perspective. With a L.6 castle you are talking Krak des Chevaliers or Chateau Galliard; armies of 30,000+ failed to assault such places. It really doesn't matter if you have an army of 100,000; as long as the garrison is fit, fed and has high morale such places are essentially un-assaultable. That is their purpose. You simply have to spend time and resources to "reduce" them before they will fall - or pull off a coup of intrigue or trickery. Having such places injects a stability that gives better gameplay, IMO.

"Game perspective" my glorious behind. I can get behind your historical argument but you DO realize lvl6fort can be hit at tech 5 so you are basically unable to assault anything other than cities or temples for the rest of ~250years of the game.

 

[Dadoverde]

Please don't remove fabricated claims. It feels like an integral part of the game.

Or if you are locked with your neighbours, it's the only way to continue beyond the sea.

 

[Balesir]

"Game perspective" my glorious behind. I can get behind your historical argument but you DO realize lvl6fort can be hit at tech 5 so you are basically unable to assault anything other than cities or temples for the rest of ~250years of the game.

No, you just have to besiege them until they are assautlable. Lvl 6 fortresses are expensive; they should have serious effects. They would not be impregnable - they would just require a modicum of patience and determination.

 

[Weresmilodon]

Talking about Game Rules... How about a Game Rule that lets us disable Conclaves Education system?

 

[moscal]

Btw new CB's etc - can we expect to rewrite of infamy (specifically - growth)? Eg. unjustified wars by emperor automatically launches the defense pact but 3 unjustified wars by small duke isn't great problem for world?

And small question - can we expect to rewrite of holy wars limits?

 

[SillyIdea]

As someone who loves beautiful, de jure borders in my realm, I would like if the new targeted Chancellor job could see specific counties given to their de jure owner (or possibly to a new owner if a duke holds extra titles.) This could possibly take the place of the "plot to revoke county of ______"

 

[Ventos Mustel]

Since you said suggestions welcome:

I support the removal of the Fabricate Claim job and addition of unjustified county wars. I think that the unjustified wars, in addition to costing prestige/piety/gold and building threat faster, should incur tyranny and an increased rate of "raised levies" vassal opinion penalty. It should also give your liege a valid reason to arrest you if used within the same realm, and make you rivals with the person whose county you are taking. Fabrication of county claims could be made a Plot similar to current Claim Duchy and Revoke Title plots.

For the replacement chancellor job, I agree with the suggestion to make it an 'enhance claim' job that strengthens weak claims to strong, or can give you a weak claim based on prior control of the county by some ancestor, descendant, close relative, spouse, or close in-law of yours.

I'd also like to see the ability to change sides in a war, at cost of prestige, automatically being arrested with all punishments valid by your liege if he wins a war you flipped against him on, and a major general opinion hit for being a turncoat.

Also the ability to surrender as the defender of a siege of one of your demesne holdings, instantly granting occupation without looting if accepted by the attacker. AI would only take this option if they do not stand to lose any realm territory if the war is lost and the attacker outnumbers them 10:1, but player could use it to avoid losing prosperity in that county + gain a bit of positive opinion from their potential new liege, at the cost of gaining Craven

 

[dragoon9105]

Talking about Game Rules... How about a Game Rule that lets us disable Conclaves Education system?

Dont know why you're getting downvoted, I dont see anything wrong with giving people the option to turn off the New Child Education System but still allowing them to keep the Council Mechanics.

 

[OBRkenobi]

Of course.

Thank god. You guys are so great.

 

[Rashie]

?

Defensive pacts and threat are not EU4 coalitions in design or balancing, and CK2 is not EU.
EU4 AE ties into the core of the game in a much more effective manner than threat does in CK2, because the rest of the game was designed around the assumption it would be there rather than being bolted onto the side of it a couple years later. EU4 is geared towards war and conquest to a much greater extent than CK2 is.

It's possible to oppose it becoming easier to start wars and at the same time not liking defensive pacts.

 

[christopher0936]

Ugh, why would you make the unjustified wars cost Prestige/Gold/Piety? Or at least just that? Make them add more Dishonorable points, and maybe Revolt Risk.

what? They already have said it'll likely add infamy, which is what I assume you meant by "Dishonorable Points", and revolt risk makes no sense

 

[Sopbucket]

Ideally, I’d also like to replace the “Fabricate Claim” job with something else (maybe something to do with foreign embassies and arranging marriages, or something to do with Laws. Suggestions are welcome!)

Has anyone suggested a counsellor job that allows you to obtain favors from your vassals? That could be pretty useful, and it touches on all sorts of things, including marriage and laws. Being able to use it on foreign leaders and lieges might not be a bad idea either if it can be balanced right.

 

[VolitionNewlove]

I have a slight feeling this could mean cannons could be implemented in some sense. No idea how they'd work, though; if they'd be a troop type, or some special ability tied into the Siege tech. Either way, could work to change up the late gameplay, even by a small degree.

 

[VineFynn]

Tbh I'd just have "assaultability" increase with your siege equipment tech. Level 6 fort is assaultable at, say, siege tech 4, for example.

It might be preferable to change the penalty itself to drastically reduce the relevance of numbers when decreasing the time till a fort is assaultable, also.

 

[TheDungen]

Defensive pacts and threat are not EU4 coalitions in design or balancing, and CK2 is not EU.
EU4 AE ties into the core of the game in a much more effective manner than threat does in CK2, because the rest of the game was designed around the assumption it would be there rather than being bolted onto the side of it a couple years later. EU4 is geared towards war and conquest to a much greater extent than CK2 is.

It's possible to oppose it becoming easier to start wars and at the same time not liking defensive pacts.

Actually ck2 defensive pacts are way better designed that coalitions in EU4. Aside from the ck2 ones not being able to attack, but I can see why that wouldn't work without a system of overlapping cores.
Other than that, religions forming separate ones that then merge is much better than how eu4 handles these things. Also EU4 has that arbitrary 50 AE for coalitions which means they basically never happen unless you're going on a conquest spree in the HRE or pushing the limit for WC (which I still hold should be impossible).

 

[BenRGamer]

My one suggestion has absolutely nothing to do with wars and more about the UI of the Game Rule system, since a lot of people want different things to be added as game rules.

How about separating them into subject groups and making them collapsible, making it easier to navigate?

I.E. groups about general warfare, invasions, specific DLC, etc

 

[Urzhail64]

Actually ck2 defensive pacts are way better designed that coalitions in EU4. Aside from the ck2 ones not being able to attack, but I can see why that wouldn't work without a system of overlapping cores.
Other than that, religions forming separate ones that then merge is much better than how eu4 handles these things. Also EU4 has that arbitrary 50 AE for coalitions which means they basically never happen unless you're going on a conquest spree in the HRE or pushing the limit for WC (which I still hold should be impossible).

Agreed. I've played EUIV...the coalitions in that game are ridiculous compared to CK2. I once took a HRE core province as Flanders while trying to form the Dutch Republic in EUIV. Bam. Ever single frigging country in Europe joined in an coalition against me and I got squashed in no time flat. I just could click through all those country pop ups of them joining the coalition fast enough.

 

[Johuotar]

Or if you are locked with your neighbours, it's the only way to continue beyond the sea.

Exactly this. Fabricated claims are fundamentally important for player freedom and enjoyment.