I truly love this game and want it to succeed. But I can't play it if no one to play with or against. But I think i speak for some but not all that a diary of what y'all are doing to improve the game or future ideas would in the long run keep a population. Paradox does well with HOI they keep a diary of the improvements and show what they are working on and it can excite the population. But with SD will don't know y'all said their was a patch but we don't know anything about it or when to look forward to it. I just saying nothing may come out of this but I would like to see some details. I have played the wargames since EE and would like this game to succeed. Thank you
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I'll have to agree, Eugen is not good at community interaction. People here would like to get informed on what's happening, the policy of "when it's done" and "we don't disclose any details because people will just complain earlier" isn't working.
The whole thing with Eugene and their apprach towards the community is somewhat...difficult. No matter what they have done or tried in the past, they did not do it right according to the community. So instead of communicating and getting constantly critized for what they are doing, they go silent and avoid all interaction as much as possible. They seem to lurk around in the forums though and I'm also under the impression that they like to cultivate this strange love/ hate relationship with the community further, but imho its pretty bad and toxic.
On the one hand I think like you, it´s always not so nice to not know what will happen. On the other hand I can understand Eugen. If they release the details one half of the community will be pissed off, no matter which side will get a more or less big advantage. At the end also both sides could be pissed off if the one half is thinking they get nerfed without good reason and the other half is thinking they didn´t get buffed enough. Not very nice.
At the end all complains will be useless and wasted energy anyway because they already read all day long complains about balance in nearly every thread from every side.
Because of that I don´t care if they don´t release the details earlier, some patience is making much things a lot easier.
But I would like to get more general infos about the plans and ideas for development because I think this more long termed things are much more interesting and for such things the communitys opinion could be helpful. Also the preview of some nice stuff will keep the people going on and give them a perspective. I played now about 300 hours and I love the game but with actual content I don´t know how it is looking in 300 hours more so some perspective of what is planned would be helpful to keep on going. "Something big is comming" doesn´t work for me unfortunately. On the other hand I heard over the years so many plans and good ideas from developers that was absolut bs at the end (or even wasn´t completed) that I would like to hear better no informations rather than some that might not get accomplished. And game development isn´t only about fun, it´s also about money and paying debts, so the biggest promises can get far away if you don´t have an return of investment at some point. That´s something a lot of people don´t think about or want to think about. Todays ability to put the devs under constant pressure is something that makes the job a lot harder I think. Imagine you are in their position, some people treat you like a slave only because they bough a game for 30 (?) $ where you put all your heart and effort in, but they wanting always more, faster and most time everyone wants something else.
At the end all complains will be useless and wasted energy anyway because they already read all day long complains about balance in nearly every thread from every side.
Because of that I don´t care if they don´t release the details earlier, some patience is making much things a lot easier.
But I would like to get more general infos about the plans and ideas for development because I think this more long termed things are much more interesting and for such things the communitys opinion could be helpful. Also the preview of some nice stuff will keep the people going on and give them a perspective. I played now about 300 hours and I love the game but with actual content I don´t know how it is looking in 300 hours more so some perspective of what is planned would be helpful to keep on going. "Something big is comming" doesn´t work for me unfortunately. On the other hand I heard over the years so many plans and good ideas from developers that was absolut bs at the end (or even wasn´t completed) that I would like to hear better no informations rather than some that might not get accomplished. And game development isn´t only about fun, it´s also about money and paying debts, so the biggest promises can get far away if you don´t have an return of investment at some point. That´s something a lot of people don´t think about or want to think about. Todays ability to put the devs under constant pressure is something that makes the job a lot harder I think. Imagine you are in their position, some people treat you like a slave only because they bough a game for 30 (?) $ where you put all your heart and effort in, but they wanting always more, faster and most time everyone wants something else.
People complain it's just a fact. But keeping people in the dark is not working and losing customers and money. I loved it when they would bring out pics during RD of units in dlc. It gave people something to look forward to. But what is there to look forward to now. Patch imminent....well what's it gonna do....are their plans for new stuff nobody knows but they have said things are coming but people don't care if you don't give them a tease. It's kinda like a woman if she shows nothing then your curious but meh maybe nothing great but if show something good then you have everyone's attention and want. (Idk if can post that on here but it ain't nothing bad)
I really did not think much of player numbers, but it's pretty pathetic right now. Only 309 on at the moment and my last 3 games have been with people I played the prior 1 or 2. I love this game too, but something needs to change,.
There are people who are called community manager. It's a real job and it's a tough one. Engaging with your customers, managing their expectation, reacting to critique or flame wars, reframing perceptions and giving feedback to the product dev people and vice versa is nothing you do on the side. It's a full time job and the skill set is not always aligned with beeing a great developer or marketing person. Saying "Oh, we tried to keep you guys updated, but it was so toxic, now we just don't talk to you anymore" is a capitulation. And it's very dangerous for the future of a company, espacially in such a niche market. Theres only a finite supply of players willing to go for games with such a steep learning curve. It's incompetence to ignore community management for Eugen or see it as a sideshow and I would go so far that it could ruin them.
100% agree. The game development landscape has changed a lot in the last few years and gamers wish to participate more; maybe you can blame kickstarter and early access for this? It doesn't really matter if you didn't go the Kickstarter or Early Access route, the gamers are still the same gamers and they are going to expect the same no matter what development route you take because that is how the industry works now. Community management is just as important as developing the game. Move with the times or get left behind. The status quo just won't cut it anymore.
I'm sure the devs don't agree between themselves all the time either. This is just part of life; people disagree on things, they have debates (flame wars) and try to work out a best solution for everyone or in most cases close to pleasing mostly everyone. You are never going to please everyone but if people understand why you went in a certain direction (i.e. through communication) then they usually come around.
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I think Company of Heroes 2 managed to get rid of the problem for people jumping off servers for any reason. Just choose a division and click automatch. Then you will get a random map without having to look every possible host and setup.
Agreed, I've expressed similar sentiments.
Eugen, come on guys, include your community in your process. We'd like to spread the good word about upcoming changes with friends and defuse complaints by saying "well Eugen is planning to fix that and also add this" but we can't because you haven't give us shit all. So instead people with negative opinions dominate the conversation. Have I been negative? Sure. But that has more to do with frustration about the bad parts of a game I otherwise enjoy ruining the good parts and the lack of communicating about how those bad parts are being addressed than hate. Shit, Harold got banned for that sarcastic trolling but that dude is just as obsessed and just as frustrated as the rest of us, he just expressed it in a shitty way.
Your games are big and complicated and unfriendly to newbies and reliant on word of mouth and friendly support of new players by existing ones to generate engagement. They also need that hard core of regulars to give people something to do because you guys didn't build out SP like you did in the other games. Building that positive MP play experience requires both us players and you developers. So help us help you and include us in your dang process rather than mocking us with default pictures and lorem ipsum.
Eugen, come on guys, include your community in your process. We'd like to spread the good word about upcoming changes with friends and defuse complaints by saying "well Eugen is planning to fix that and also add this" but we can't because you haven't give us shit all. So instead people with negative opinions dominate the conversation. Have I been negative? Sure. But that has more to do with frustration about the bad parts of a game I otherwise enjoy ruining the good parts and the lack of communicating about how those bad parts are being addressed than hate. Shit, Harold got banned for that sarcastic trolling but that dude is just as obsessed and just as frustrated as the rest of us, he just expressed it in a shitty way.
Your games are big and complicated and unfriendly to newbies and reliant on word of mouth and friendly support of new players by existing ones to generate engagement. They also need that hard core of regulars to give people something to do because you guys didn't build out SP like you did in the other games. Building that positive MP play experience requires both us players and you developers. So help us help you and include us in your dang process rather than mocking us with default pictures and lorem ipsum.
Mad Mat showing a picture of a scoped Vickers HMG unit as a tease was enough to excite many of us for the upcoming patch, why can't they do things like that more often? Good community-developer interaction is key and a well laid out roadmap is integral to player retention.
I won't call myself a super experienced player but I'm also not a novice. I spent years playing just the Wargame campaigns, mostly Red Dragon, and only played my first MP game last year. Now, I play MP all the time. What's really killing community in the game is the difficulty in actually talking to one another. Warchat is no longer always there by default and it's confusing to sometimes realize what channel you are speaking to.
I can see a lot of new players being turned off because hardly ever does anyone say "Hey good game, guys. You want to play again with some pointers?" I've tried to do that lately when I can tell the other player is new. The hope is that little bit of aid will go a long way in keeping them in the game and then adding their friends.
Instead, what tends to happen, is the same three or four morons going off about how amazing they are for beating someone on their third game. I can see why someone with only a light interest in the game would leave quickly. Why continue playing to have your screen folded by some idiot's comments?
That being said, Eugen does need to do a better job than sharing images after days, even weeks, of silence. That only furthers the situation. Give us something that lets us know things are moving...and it has to be more than a two line response. People are much more receptive when they have some information. Hell, just look at how many posters here are saying they've uninstalled the game...and yet keep posting every day...
I can see a lot of new players being turned off because hardly ever does anyone say "Hey good game, guys. You want to play again with some pointers?" I've tried to do that lately when I can tell the other player is new. The hope is that little bit of aid will go a long way in keeping them in the game and then adding their friends.
Instead, what tends to happen, is the same three or four morons going off about how amazing they are for beating someone on their third game. I can see why someone with only a light interest in the game would leave quickly. Why continue playing to have your screen folded by some idiot's comments?
That being said, Eugen does need to do a better job than sharing images after days, even weeks, of silence. That only furthers the situation. Give us something that lets us know things are moving...and it has to be more than a two line response. People are much more receptive when they have some information. Hell, just look at how many posters here are saying they've uninstalled the game...and yet keep posting every day...
I actually reinstalled last night................................
But that's because I'm doing custom scenarios with decks balanced for the scenario designed by me. Trying to play MP at 9-11 pm Pacific is pretty pointless for me as I hate lobby simulator 2.0 and I already finished the campaigns. This is really all I've got left and my few friends that still have the game seem interested enough.
Had some really good custom scenarios in Red Dragon like a modern Iwo Jima, Falkands, Afghanistan, etc. SD gives the opportunity to do some really nice historical scenarios.
I actually don't mind it because you can actually "meet" the other players which sometimes leads to a series of games that are more enjoyable. I was up until just after 1 am playing last night and didn't have to wait too long.