The Flak 88's (which is the most important unit in the division) got nerfed heavily in respect to the plane suppression they dish out not, my question is is the division and by extension the Flak 88 still worth using now?
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Lets see:
-Highest phase A income on the axis side, tied with the 101st AB (but more total requisition points)
-Recon tab: Füsilier Squads are great multipurpose units that can hold their own against both infantry and light vehicles and can be at the front line when pushing into towns or forests.
-Infantry tab: Phase A is meh, but can hold its ground. In B and C, Ita. Freiwillige are fantastic.
-Tank tab: Access to 2 vetted Panzer B2(f) in phase A, which are fantastic early game tanks that can either engage 2 separate targets at 1000m range or pound a single unit into submission with AP and HE at the same time.
-Support tab: Has everything you would need except for vehicle leader units, but since you won't be using a lot of vehicles anyway, you don't really need the mobility.
-Anti-Tank tab: Phase A access to a PAK40, a plethora of vetted PAK43s in C.
-Anti-Air tab: Phase A access to a FlaK41 (which is still a fantastic multi purpose unit, even after the nerf), a plethora of vetted FlaK41s in B and C.
-Artillery tab: Phase A access to Lorraine(f), which is not only great at killing soft targets but also good for countering enemy arty while being fairly immune to that itself. Phase B more Lorraines and Wurfrahmen, phase C Nebelwerfers and Railroad Batteries.
-Air tab: Has all the units you could ever need, including 4 AT planes in phase B.
So, yeah, I'd say it's still usable.
-Highest phase A income on the axis side, tied with the 101st AB (but more total requisition points)
-Recon tab: Füsilier Squads are great multipurpose units that can hold their own against both infantry and light vehicles and can be at the front line when pushing into towns or forests.
-Infantry tab: Phase A is meh, but can hold its ground. In B and C, Ita. Freiwillige are fantastic.
-Tank tab: Access to 2 vetted Panzer B2(f) in phase A, which are fantastic early game tanks that can either engage 2 separate targets at 1000m range or pound a single unit into submission with AP and HE at the same time.
-Support tab: Has everything you would need except for vehicle leader units, but since you won't be using a lot of vehicles anyway, you don't really need the mobility.
-Anti-Tank tab: Phase A access to a PAK40, a plethora of vetted PAK43s in C.
-Anti-Air tab: Phase A access to a FlaK41 (which is still a fantastic multi purpose unit, even after the nerf), a plethora of vetted FlaK41s in B and C.
-Artillery tab: Phase A access to Lorraine(f), which is not only great at killing soft targets but also good for countering enemy arty while being fairly immune to that itself. Phase B more Lorraines and Wurfrahmen, phase C Nebelwerfers and Railroad Batteries.
-Air tab: Has all the units you could ever need, including 4 AT planes in phase B.
So, yeah, I'd say it's still usable.
Haven't had any success with the Lorraines, they cannot hit the broad side of a barn, even with a command unit nearby, it takes them often 4-5 shells to actually hit what they were aiming at.
It can hit clusters of units well enough, but even when you fire at lonely artillery units, the psychological effect of "oh my god, if that thing actually hits my unit is toast" usually sends them running, which is all you really need. Hitting the target consistently would be nice, but it does its job just fine IMO.
Lets see:
-Highest phase A income on the axis side, tied with the 101st AB (but more total requisition points)
true
-Recon tab: Füsilier Squads are great multipurpose units that can hold their own against both infantry and light vehicles and can be at the front line when pushing into towns or forests.
Oh lol no. not for 40 points with no vet and against the 2xsmg veteral rifles, ab engineers or elite stormtroopers.
-Infantry tab: Phase A is meh, but can hold its ground. In B and C, Ita. Freiwillige are fantastic.
*Phase A cant hold its ground. I agree ITA are pretty good but they come only after you have completely lost phase A and abandoned any suitable defensive position for infantry. Hence you are using them on the offensive and on the offensive any inf is going to suffer.
-Tank tab: Access to 2 vetted Panzer B2(f) in phase A, which are fantastic early game tanks that can either engage 2 separate targets at 1000m range or pound a single unit into submission with AP and HE at the same time.
Tanks are quite irrelevant against RAM II or veteran/elite scottish and american AT guns.
-Support tab: Has everything you would need except for vehicle leader units, but since you won't be using a lot of vehicles anyway, you don't really need the mobility.
Support has flamer tanks. But i fail to see their point if you can have wasps for twice as cheap, faster moving and doing their job just as well.
-Anti-Tank tab: Phase A access to a PAK40, a plethora of vetted PAK43s in C.
AT is really bad in 716. A single 0 vet pak40 in phase A. I find that i have to rely on pzshrek for AT as it is their best at gun haha. And ofc the suicidal AT plane.
-Anti-Air tab: Phase A access to a FlaK41 (which is still a fantastic multi purpose unit, even after the nerf), a plethora of vetted FlaK41s in B and C.
No complaints about AA. Flakvierlings and their self propelled variants are quite good. But of course we are getting nil veterancy because Germany lost the war. 88 are good but 25 pdr will make them useless.
-Artillery tab: Phase A access to Lorraine(f), which is not only great at killing soft targets but also good for countering enemy arty while being fairly immune to that itself. Phase B more Lorraines and Wurfrahmen, phase C Nebelwerfers and Railroad Batteries.
Lorraines have abysmal reaction times and barrage spread. They can work as a direct fire weapon but acc 3 means you need to be 500m or closer do do damage.
-Air tab: Has all the units you could ever need, including 4 AT planes in phase B.
Really bad, no vet and or availability. the phase A He111 has the worse loadout ever.
So, yeah, I'd say it's still usable.
Against someone with 200+ elo deficit sure.
Anyway i kind of like its design because it sucked and it actually sucks, too.
In many ways, 352 inf is similar to 716 but at least they are getting veteran infantry from the start and you can really feel those stars pulling their weight if you manage to stay away from 100m.
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I like this division, is very soft, thus vulnerable to enemy artillery, but overall I agree with everything SunSlayzer described.
Maybe if they add some long range artillery to counter enemy long range arty, but otherwise its cool enough.
Quite hard to play with on late-game, but thats how this game is supposed to be.
Maybe if they add some long range artillery to counter enemy long range arty, but otherwise its cool enough.
Quite hard to play with on late-game, but thats how this game is supposed to be.
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Flak 88s are still a great unit. As with any AA they can't really stop a plane train, but they're still good protection as far as AA in Steel Division goes. On top of that they're very tough and provide great fire support against a wide variety of ground targets, too.
I like the division overall. The infantry's not super impressive by German standards, but it's not terrible and abundant MG 34s available from phase A is awesome to have. You've got a bunch of very attractively priced phase A tanks to help you take ground early. The artillery tab is pretty solid. Your air support tab, although small, has great stuff: vetted fighters, anti-tank, mass bombing, and it's all available from Phase A.
You've got a fantastic array of generalists that can fill multiple roles at once to help you keep slugging it out on the ground, and it's all available from Phase A: Fusiliers let you get line infantry + recon, the B2 gives you a pretty good Phase A tank combined with a support howitzer, and the 88 Flak can shoot at basically everything, ground and air.
It's kind of a weird deck for the Germans, since it's well set up to take a bunch of ground early and then die slowly and win on VP. That tends to be what the Allies do instead, due to German armored superiority as the big cats come out. I think it's a pretty solid deck, though.
I like the division overall. The infantry's not super impressive by German standards, but it's not terrible and abundant MG 34s available from phase A is awesome to have. You've got a bunch of very attractively priced phase A tanks to help you take ground early. The artillery tab is pretty solid. Your air support tab, although small, has great stuff: vetted fighters, anti-tank, mass bombing, and it's all available from Phase A.
You've got a fantastic array of generalists that can fill multiple roles at once to help you keep slugging it out on the ground, and it's all available from Phase A: Fusiliers let you get line infantry + recon, the B2 gives you a pretty good Phase A tank combined with a support howitzer, and the 88 Flak can shoot at basically everything, ground and air.
It's kind of a weird deck for the Germans, since it's well set up to take a bunch of ground early and then die slowly and win on VP. That tends to be what the Allies do instead, due to German armored superiority as the big cats come out. I think it's a pretty solid deck, though.
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The big thing with the 352 infantry is their godly SK18's and Jagdpanther, they can eliminate soft targets almost along the entire frontline and get a pseudo heavy tank in phase C to push with
The Godly 150 point sink that I've never seen earn its points back with. Ever. All it manages to do is explode allied fanboys in anger and make them cry because it's annoying and causes suppression from time to time.
Strange, the countless 17 pounders, AA units, and infantry squads I take out with it seem to be more than enough make the money back. And if it breaks up stalemates and eliminates key units pushing the map in our favor, then the unit is already more than worth it, all monetary value aside
352 has tought me how good a star of experience actually is and this star of experience is their real selling point. It can really be felt and also if you think about it. +15% damage dealt and -15% damage received nets a total advantage of ~30% compared to vet 0 infantry.
Even with 352 its difficult because you have to avoid 100m like plague. But at least you can use veteran fusilers with a commander to be semi decent in 100m fights.
Even with 352 its difficult because you have to avoid 100m like plague. But at least you can use veteran fusilers with a commander to be semi decent in 100m fights.
IIRC, it's not regular for me to see artillery kill its cost in targets, either, but that doesn't mean they're not worth it. They turn losing battles into winning battles and keep enemy units that I don't have a good reply to from doing as much by pinning them, blinding them, or making them flee.
Artillery does kill stuff, but that's not its primary function.
Artillery does kill stuff, but that's not its primary function.
I think I just have a more aggressive playstyle than most pubs. I often times outpush my artillery support to the point where it becomes a micro liability to keep towing them forward. Stalemates don't really happen in higher tier play, only meat grinders in some parts of maps. I noticed how reliant players are on artillery.
Yes i agree artis are often a micro liability. They need to be babysat like no other unit since they have absolutely no AI. You need to resupply them and constantly issue attack orders. THis is especially difficult against moving targets and with slow response time guns like sk18 and lorraine. As a result the player can only effectively use 1 or 2 guns. But you can buy a dozen. This disconnect is a problem, the amount of guns and slots should be reduced.
I'm sure you've just ascended us all in skill Rojan, the 352 Infantry division is a static and artillery heavy one, so I play it according to that mantra and have relative success doing so.
of the 2 axis infantry deck i like this one more because:
phase A flak 88 boom boy and pak 40
madmat's panzer B2 are just beast, there is no reason to use S35 chubbster when u got madmat tech
flamer panzer B2 cooks em up
mutant madmat SPG that is mini nuke launcher
and.. . . ~ ITA ~
352nd is one of the worst deck in the game imo. seriously phase A pak 38 and mutant czech TD only? u can be the best SD player and i will still push u into ur 25% of the map with pancerna easily. at least 716th has some threats. and madmats B2 can duel allied mediums kinda.
phase A flak 88 boom boy and pak 40
madmat's panzer B2 are just beast, there is no reason to use S35 chubbster when u got madmat tech
flamer panzer B2 cooks em up
mutant madmat SPG that is mini nuke launcher
and.. . . ~ ITA ~
352nd is one of the worst deck in the game imo. seriously phase A pak 38 and mutant czech TD only? u can be the best SD player and i will still push u into ur 25% of the map with pancerna easily. at least 716th has some threats. and madmats B2 can duel allied mediums kinda.
Well yeah.....352nd doesn't match up to Pancerna In phase A. 352nd is geared towards divisions with heavy AT like 15th scotts. With that being said...352nd does have a nice overall deck to deal with armor heavy divisions. They have Pnzr Grens with AT capability and just need to hold out until phase B for better equipment. It's all about positioning troops and the map.
Which is kinda funny, considering that artillery was the number one killer in WWII. But hey, we're talking about a game in which the "shield" is sliced through cleanly without much effort by the "sword"...
To be fair, it does 'kill' plenty of soldiers (hit points), it just doesn't wipe out entire squads or crews with a single shot (which i would say is fairly in line with reality).