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TheRomanRuler

Field Marshal
98 Badges
Nov 3, 2012
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Currently it sucks that i have to either go full abstract with EU4 and forget all human characters what CK2 had. Or i have to go full role playing with CK2 and forget building empires. Or i have to go full in and manage my population in Victoria 2. I don´t want to go full in with anything, i want little bit from everywhere.
I honestly don`t care about constantly marrying my cousins to somebody. I only care about my monarch and my heir. Sometimes CK2 is brilliant, but i also want to do other stuff. In EU4 on other hand, i miss sending my heir to lead Knights in Holy Land to gain respect of all Christians and establish Christian holy order.

How about game where i have multiple options for which research direction i want to focus on like in Victoria 2, and some inventions should happen randomly. Head of states would be presented like characters from CK2, but others should be abstract. There should be some budget management like in Victoria 2, and economy could learn a little from Victoria 2, but no need to be as in-depth. Certainly you should not have to manage invidual factory expansions. Armies should be composed of multiple types of troops like in Crusader Kings 2. Mobilization should require planning and take time to fully mobilize, but smaller levies can be raised in a hurry like in CK2. I think you could raise levy like in CK2, and then it would take time to fully reinforce. Regulars need to be trained like retinues in CK2 or regulars in Victoria 2 or EU4. I should only be able to recruit troops from province if they are loyal to me and if they have enough people to support it. But reinforcements could happen from more generic manpower pool. I should have some control over army composition, if for example i want more light infantry than average i should be able to train more of my conscripts/recruits as light infantry.
I think division designer system from HOI4 could be used. If you want to train regulars, just press a button to train army of them that are designed like divisions in division designer of HOI4. And when you mobilize conscripts or raise levies, they would be raised as army, and that army`s composition would also be designed in division designer. In division designer you could also choose which units and which amount starts in left/middle/right/reserves, expanding slightly on CK2 system which does not contain reserves.
Maybe every character, including generals, could be little like characters are in CK2, but with less interactions and traits, while only head of states you could properly interact with.
And maybe there could be some kind of mix of cores and owned titles. I would love to actually have city of Vienna and castle of Vienna like in Ck2, and if i loose war to someone they could occupy my castle in Vienna, while i would only keep the city.
If i want to create feared military formations like Napoleon`s Old Guard, i should be able to. If i want to show every nation in the world that my royal guard is better than their Republican Guard or royal guard, i should be able to. Or if i just want to create more generic military units like Winged Hussars, i should be able to. Nothing too in-depth, just units that might give my own units small morale bonus, or enemy small morale penalty, or units that just are little better.
And maybe add in little, of logistics from HOI4. If i can`t produce enough newest muskets, i would have to equip many of my soldiers with spears. But nothing as in depth as in HOI4.

Does anyone else agree with me? Instead of going fully abstract way of EU4, there could be more in-depth stuff, but not as in-depth as characters in CK2 or population in Vic 2 or fighting in HOI4.
Or do people really just want to go either full in-depth of CK2 or fully abstracted way of HOI4 with nothing in between?
 
And can i just say that it took me a ****** hour and half to write that... Sometimes i really struggle getting my ideas in written form. Original post was really different. Originally i was joking about how God had not yet invented population in CK2 and how in EU4 i accidentally lost my ministers and i try to grow people by having military genius as my monarch (because with military power you can add manpower to provinces).
 
No, God didn't invent amythimg but in medieval times rulers didn't know how many subjects in total they had. Statistics and population census is a pretty modern thing. Economy policies as well.

While I agree some games could use some aspects of others a game with all of it would be messy and unfitting.
 
No, God didn't invent amythimg but in medieval times rulers didn't know how many subjects in total they had. Statistics and population census is a pretty modern thing. Economy policies as well.

While I agree some games could use some aspects of others a game with all of it would be messy and unfitting.
Population census may be modern thing in general, but church kept books of all Christians and Roman emperor Augustus did do population census. No idea what the results were though
 
I think this would be difficult to balance out, and be an absolute strain on the engine. In theory, anything between Charlemagne and WW2 could be done by a single game that is sufficiently complex and streamlined, but I don't expect this before 2030. But I can see CK getting a less generic tech tree, for example. MEIOU & Taxes introduced POPs to EU IV and gave more depth to Estates.
 
Population census may be modern thing in general, but church kept books of all Christians and Roman emperor Augustus did do population census.

Not just him, but there is a reason it's called the "Dark Ages". Many useful technologies and ideas simply got lost or became unfeasible, and antique government techniques were almost entirely replaced by feudalism and the Church and their ensuing conflict. Generally, the feudal system made any resemblance of modern government, which we saw during antiquity and in parts of Asia, completely impossible.
 
Not just him, but there is a reason it's called the "Dark Ages". Many useful technologies and ideas simply got lost or became unfeasible, and antique government techniques were almost entirely replaced by feudalism and the Church and their ensuing conflict. Generally, the feudal system made any resemblance of modern government, which we saw during antiquity and in parts of Asia, completely impossible.

That's not a reason for the non-inclusion of POPs, though. Medieval rulers had no way of knowing which buildings existed in each European settlement, and yet we can do that in the game - for example. There are tons of features which make for good gameplay, but it isn't realistic for the ruler to know about those things.
 
I think this would be difficult to balance out, and be an absolute strain on the engine. In theory, anything between Charlemagne and WW2 could be done by a single game that is sufficiently complex and streamlined, but I don't expect this before 2030. But I can see CK getting a less generic tech tree, for example. MEIOU & Taxes introduced POPs to EU IV and gave more depth to Estates.

MEIOU & Taxes did indeed introduce a population mechanic, but it is much more simplified than the POPs. It is just not possible to implement a mechanic like POPs through modding.

Adding POPs to CK2 wouldn't necessarily be a great strain on the engine. V2 calculated POP changes for every POP, every day. If it were done every year in CK2 instead, then the performance strain is unlikely to be great, possibly not even significant.
 
Watch the Multiplayer take literally months to complete
That is how it has always been with Paradox games. Nothing new there. And i personally think Paradox games should last a long time. After all, you can always just start from later date or agree to end the game at X date if you want shorter game. Large scale games just are not good for multiplayer, unless you are fine with players changing all the time like in MMO where in middle of story you might change people you play with. While it could work for Paradox games, i don`t know if it would be popular.
There is nothing wrong with games evolving to be more new player friendly, UI being better or being able to do things with less mouse clicks. But under the layer, grand strategy games should always be extremely complicated.
For example in province view you could see that province has 3 production. You could improve that production by spending 300 units of money. That is nice and simple. But if you take look under the hood, there are factories and people, and you need more wood to build new factory. So automatically that 300 units of money goes to buying more wood, which province by province is transported. Then factory starts building and eventually you have province that has 4 production, or if you look under the hood you can see new factories and houses built.
It is not easy to make grand strategy games that are accessible like that, but it is possible. And that is what i want. Complicated without unnecessary mess. There is no need for me to go and buy that wood and build those factories manually. But it should exist as part of the game, it should not just be missing like it is in EU4.
 
Ok that, but to make this game up to the standards of current Paradox games you will need a lot of stuff, and the gameplay would be seriously long. Now imagine in Multiplayer when the game runs at extremely slow speed and with many players setting up stuff constantly, demanding pause