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CK2 Dev Diary #62: News from China

Greetings!

Last week I talked about how we’re adding China to the world of Crusader Kings II without actually extending the map any farther. When you are playing in the Orient, you would be wise to remember the “Divine Land” to the east. Indeed, from time to time, you will be getting tidings about the situation in China so that you can plan accordingly. China has a Status and a Policy. The latter rarely changes except when a new emperor ascends to the Dragon Throne (or when the Western Governorate either wins or loses a major war.) By far the most common Policy is “Open”, which means it’s business as usual; China is open to trade and the Silk Road is active. Moreover, the emperor is interested in maintaining the tributary system and in conducting diplomacy with the barbarian periphery. However, some Chinese administrations favor a “Closed” Policy. At such times, the Silk Road will be shut down and the emperor will not deal with foreign rulers. Neither will China attempt any form of military adventures beyond its borders. Lastly, and most rarely, China may adopt an “Expansionist” Policy. This is a time of great peril for rulers near the Chinese border, who would be well advised to swallow their pride and kowtow to the emperor, accepting tributary status before the Western Governorate is expanded with extreme force...

DDJurchens.png


Chinese Policy should be seen as a political stance, but China also has a “Status”, which is beyond the emperor’s control. For example, China can be struck by famine, plague, unrest, Civil Wars and invasions by Mongols and Jurchens, and it can also sometimes experience a “Golden Age”. All of these states have an impact on China’s behavior and on the Silk Road. For example, if China suffers from famine, income from the Silk Road is drastically lowered, and players should watch out for the conclusion to a Chinese Civil War or Altaic invasion; it is not unheard of for a displaced dynasty or losing faction to seek refuge in the West… More on that in a later dev diary. I believe that will do it for today. Next week we’ll go into details about how you interact with China and what’s in it for you!
 
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Jia Xu said:
CK2 is about helping a dynasty survive from the chosen start date to the end date. The western protectorate isn't a good fit as a playable tag in CK2 because the leader of the protectorate is a military general appointed by the imperial court. It's not something that passes from one family member to another and it goes against the main theme of the game. It's not even something you could get around with special mechanics, like they did with merchant republics. The next General isn't appointed from the ranks of minor lords in the Tarim basin. It's appointed by the emperor, who is off screen, and he deliberately appoints people who come from outside of that region in order to ensure that the general is a loyalist who has no stake in a local rebellion. One of the protectors was even a Korean. The more you examine the history of the institution, the more impractical it seems to make it playable in CK2.

I think leaving it unplayable, like the Papacy, was the right decision.
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Why can't the Byzantines and Germans have generals at outposts and instead have to cater to some Marquis' family values so they don't break off?
 
liredarion said:
I don't unterstand your answer . What reminds you institutions and ages from eu4 , the dev diary or my point of view ?
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The feature mentioned in the dev diary does.

Foreign Alien said:
What's JD?
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It means we got the abbrevation for the new DLC.

CatilinamSum said:
That's quite disappointing. Is it too late to change this? Playing as the Protectorate and receiving directives from the Emperor would be tons of fun.
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Seems a bit underwhelming yes.

Jia Xu said:
CK2 is about helping a dynasty survive from the chosen start date to the end date. The western protectorate isn't a good fit as a playable tag in CK2 because the leader of the protectorate is a military general appointed by the imperial court. It's not something that passes from one family member to another and it goes against the main theme of the game. It's not even something you could get around with special mechanics, like they did with merchant republics. The next General isn't appointed from the ranks of minor lords in the Tarim basin. It's appointed by the emperor, who is off screen, and he deliberately appoints people who come from outside of that region in order to ensure that the general is a loyalist who has no stake in a local rebellion. One of the protectors was even a Korean. The more you examine the history of the institution, the more impractical it seems to make it playable in CK2.

I think leaving it unplayable, like the Papacy, was the right decision.
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Except it's not if keeping your dynasty alive was actually a challenge then yes that might be what the game was about but it's not so it's not. I think we need to be able to see different government types as having different basic components, for feudal it obviously is the dynasty but it's a bad fit for many governments that would be interesting to play in a character driven game. For ck3 i think they should open up for non dynasty driven game experiences too.

bsteltz said:
I really hope china doesn't go and conquer all of India also will we as players be able to support a empire as a outside force if one of the old empires goes to our court. Though money and recourses as they are not on the map of course
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I think china will mainly focus their power north of the himalayas.

13arabba said:
Why can't the Byzantines and Germans have generals at outposts and instead have to cater to some Marquis' family values so they don't break off?
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Because Germans are feudal, buy yeah the byzantines shouldn't be feudal.
 
Having to play as the Western Governor and please the Emperor to keep your job could be cool, maybe have a scale of discipline versus independence depending on how well you're doing compared to how well the Dynasty is doing. If the Dynasty is dying but you are self-sufficient, you have a chance to become independent with a Bureaucratic government. If the Dynasty is dying and you are not self-sufficient, you will go down with it. If the Dynasty is flourishing and you are not producing enough work, you will be replaced and get the game over screen. If you are straight-up loyal to the Dynasty and make it flourish and don't skim anything off the top, they will make you a Marquis and capable of expanding further west.
 
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TheDungen said:
The feature mentioned in the dev diary does
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But the institutions in eu4 were brought in patch 1.18 or with the RoM expansion which included a number of others gameplay mechanisms. There, apart from the screen intended for China , that has no effects on the West of the map and the new color ribbons, which suggest a new type of government, the expansion seems quite empty. In addition to that, the Western Protectorate is not playable, I sincerely hope that there will be a number of events added and other mechanics announced later, because the Paradox expansions often cost a certain price without always bring real innovations.
 
Looking forward to mods that add entities like this for the lower african countrues and Somali trade cities. Obviously not going to being bringing the wrath of the dragon upon you, but still political entities that interacted with states represented in the game.
 
Foreign Alien said:
I think these are the Chinese characters that we will be able to play and won't be part of the Western Protectorate. I'm guessing they'll be independent feudal lords rather than a part of the Chinese protectorate system. It sort of makes sense since they were all but autonomous at this point without much contact from China.
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I mean that Tibet hadn't taken any notable town in the Tarim Basin by 769 while in the screenshot they do.
 
If i cant invade china, to permanently put a end to them or install my own dynasty on the throne, then DLC is lazy and half done garbage.

theres already a mod which features all of china and indonesia, and runs perfectly fine.
 
ninoallen said:
If i cant invade china, to permanently put a end to them or install my own dynasty on the throne, then DLC is lazy and half done garbage.

theres already a mod which features all of china and indonesia, and runs perfectly fine.
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Honestly I think that mod proves that all the complaints about asia being in game is unfounded.

Unfortunately it's pretty clear that if they did add china it'd be a lot of work and piss off a lot of people which are two things Pdox seems already pretty tiered of. So here we are witht he lazy version of the China DLC. A half step that might just end up making both sides equally unhappy.
 
ninoallen said:
theres already a mod which features all of china and indonesia, and runs perfectly fine.
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It works perfectly fain on YOUR computer. Paradox don't use you as measurement.

klopkr said:
Honestly I think that mod proves that all the complaints about asia being in game is unfounded.

Unfortunately it's pretty clear that if they did add china it'd be a lot of work and piss off a lot of people which are two things Pdox seems already pretty tiered of. So here we are witht he lazy version of the China DLC. A half step that might just end up making both sides equally unhappy.
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I prefer this solution over no china. And I don't think it's lazy. It could became very interesting and deep depending on how it's handled.
 
vukica said:
Why would it be in English? Why would it mean anything? Maybe, just maybe it's like windows XP.
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XP in Windows XP means 'experience'. It means something.

And why would they give a DLC a random initials without meaniong? "Buy our new DLC called 'JD'!"
 
Thure said:
And why would they give a DLC a random initials without meaniong? "Buy our new DLC called 'JD'!"
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xkcd made it work.
 
klopkr said:
Honestly I think that mod proves that all the complaints about asia being in game is unfounded.

Unfortunately it's pretty clear that if they did add china it'd be a lot of work and piss off a lot of people which are two things Pdox seems already pretty tiered of. So here we are witht he lazy version of the China DLC. A half step that might just end up making both sides equally unhappy.
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Try again, by all accounts the anti-China faction is feeling a sense of relief. We've (or at least I have, and I gather this from other posters as well) long since given up on Crusades or other existing features getting attention, and learning that Asia (with all its performance ruining horrors and Indiaesque uninventive mechanics) isn't happening was a boon if nothing else.
 
mmmhmm...imagine clashing between a fully united India and China...or Roman "Colonies" on India having contact with China. Maybe even Abbassids warring witht the Protectorate.... so many possibilities
 
Rationalsanity said:
Try again, by all accounts the anti-China faction is feeling a sense of relief. We've (or at least I have, and I gather this from other posters as well) long since given up on Crusades or other existing features getting attention, and learning that Asia (with all its performance ruining horrors and Indiaesque uninventive mechanics) isn't happening was a boon if nothing else.
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Well, congrats? Now we're getting an expansion where we don't get to play in China, don't get to play as the Western Protectorate, and don't get any substantial features for existing areas of the map. Everybody wins.

You must be so proud of yourself.
 
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