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CK2 Dev Diary #62: News from China

Greetings!

Last week I talked about how we’re adding China to the world of Crusader Kings II without actually extending the map any farther. When you are playing in the Orient, you would be wise to remember the “Divine Land” to the east. Indeed, from time to time, you will be getting tidings about the situation in China so that you can plan accordingly. China has a Status and a Policy. The latter rarely changes except when a new emperor ascends to the Dragon Throne (or when the Western Governorate either wins or loses a major war.) By far the most common Policy is “Open”, which means it’s business as usual; China is open to trade and the Silk Road is active. Moreover, the emperor is interested in maintaining the tributary system and in conducting diplomacy with the barbarian periphery. However, some Chinese administrations favor a “Closed” Policy. At such times, the Silk Road will be shut down and the emperor will not deal with foreign rulers. Neither will China attempt any form of military adventures beyond its borders. Lastly, and most rarely, China may adopt an “Expansionist” Policy. This is a time of great peril for rulers near the Chinese border, who would be well advised to swallow their pride and kowtow to the emperor, accepting tributary status before the Western Governorate is expanded with extreme force...

DDJurchens.png


Chinese Policy should be seen as a political stance, but China also has a “Status”, which is beyond the emperor’s control. For example, China can be struck by famine, plague, unrest, Civil Wars and invasions by Mongols and Jurchens, and it can also sometimes experience a “Golden Age”. All of these states have an impact on China’s behavior and on the Silk Road. For example, if China suffers from famine, income from the Silk Road is drastically lowered, and players should watch out for the conclusion to a Chinese Civil War or Altaic invasion; it is not unheard of for a displaced dynasty or losing faction to seek refuge in the West… More on that in a later dev diary. I believe that will do it for today. Next week we’ll go into details about how you interact with China and what’s in it for you!
 
Suggestion: The Chinese Emperor should be called "Huangdi" since that's his actual title, just like Arabic kings are called Sultans and Indian ones are called Maharajas.
The Chinese Empress consort should be called "Huanghou" and a Chinese Empress regnant should be called either "Huangdi" (since Chinese generally uses gender-neutral titles) or Tianhou (which is a title Wu Zetian used, meaning Celestial Empress). Also other Chinese nobility should get cultural titles.
 
Suggestion: The Chinese Emperor should be called "Huangdi" since that's his actual title, just like Arabic kings are called Sultans and Indian ones are called Maharajas.

Sultan and Maharaja are terms which are used in the English language. Huangdi is not. Most people wouldn't even know what it means.
 
Sultan and Maharaja are terms which are used in the English language. Huangdi is not. Most people wouldn't even know what it means.
Most people wouldn't know what Basileus means. Also, German Emperor appears more often in English than Kaiser, to my knowledge at least. So, I see no reason why Huangdi couldn't be used.
 
Sultan and Maharaja are terms which are used in the English language. Huangdi is not. Most people wouldn't even know what it means.
Also Khan and Khagan. And all the lower-tier Indian titles (Thakur etc.) that nobody has ever heard of. And the Aztec emperor. And all the names for councillors in distant realms that nobody has ever heard of. There is plenty of precedence in CKII.
 
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Suggestion: The Chinese Emperor should be called "Huangdi" since that's his actual title, just like Arabic kings are called Sultans and Indian ones are called Maharajas.
The Chinese Empress consort should be called "Huanghou" and a Chinese Empress regnant should be called either "Huangdi" (since Chinese generally uses gender-neutral titles) or Tianhou (which is a title Wu Zetian used, meaning Celestial Empress). Also other Chinese nobility should get cultural titles.
Suggestion: The Chinese Emperor should be called "皇帝",The Chinese Empress consort should be called "皇后" 。Use Chinese characters instead。
 
Sultan and Maharaja are terms which are used in the English language. Huangdi is not. Most people wouldn't even know what it means.
Well most people would also not know what Thakur or Strategitissa means, in fact this game introduced me to many terms I did not know of.
Suggestion: The Chinese Emperor should be called "皇帝",The Chinese Empress consort should be called "皇后" 。Use Chinese characters instead。
That makes absolutely no sense. Maharajas aren't called महाराजा in game and Sultans are not called سلطان‎‎ in game.
 
Suggestion: The Chinese Emperor should be called "皇帝",The Chinese Empress consort should be called "皇后" 。Use Chinese characters instead。
CK2 doesn't support Chinese characters.
 
Well most people would also not know what Thakur or Strategitissa means, in fact this game introduced me to many terms I did not know of.

That makes absolutely no sense. Maharajas aren't called महाराजा in game and Sultans are not called سلطان‎‎ in game.
but no englishi can Translate “皇帝”accurately 。 the Chin's 1ST emporo made the characters“皇帝”。Before this, the highest rule called “son of Celestial”
 
but no englishi can Translate “皇帝”accurately 。
That's the whole point of transliterations. They are approximations, intended to make it readable to people with other writing systems. 皇帝 does not represent Huangdi any more accurately than महाराजा does Maharaja.
 
It doesn't really matter since China won't be playable. They could call the emperor Chinaman Numero Uno and it wouldn't bother me.
We know and no one cares what bothers you or not.

but no englishi can Translate “皇帝”accurately 。 the Chin's 1ST emporo made the characters“皇帝”。Before this, the highest rule called “son of Celestial”
Emperor is a perfectly good translation. Even Chinese translate Roman Emperor as Luoma Huangdi 罗马皇帝, Holy Roman Emperor as Shengsheng Luoma Huangdi 神圣罗马皇帝, or Byzantine Emperor as Baizhangting Huangdi 拜占庭皇帝.
 
We know and no one cares what bothers you or not.


Emperor is a perfectly good translation. Even Chinese translate Roman Emperor as Luoma Huangdi 罗马皇帝, Holy Roman Emperor as Shengsheng Luoma Huangdi 神圣罗马皇帝, or Byzantine Emperor as Baizhangting Huangdi 拜占庭皇帝.
Yup. Besides, the Chinese noble titles have established standard translations:
Duke, gōng 公, which especially featured sovereign family members, though after changes of lines within an imperial or royal House or between dynasties, or through internal adoptions or coups, a Duchy's current rulers might have been severed from current imperial or royal sovereigns and have become a distinct lineage of their own; high dukes might be styled, though not explicit "royal dukes" as in the English peerage. A Chinese royal duke might be a clan prince or (courtesy title) family "king" under the emperor while simultaneously holding a Duchy, whether enfoeffed with land or without portfolio. A character whose fundamental meaning is "public", gōng is also used in titles, ordinary names, and honorific names including deified stylings in ways other than indicating the peerage rank of duke.
Marquis, hóu 侯, usually with the same emphasis on being a national borderland march lord as with the European title marquess.
"count" bó 伯
"viscount" zǐ 子, which is also extensively used in Chinese nicknames as the meaning of the character is "child," as well as in courtesy names and honorific names in which context the character came to mean "master" as in Kongfuzi or Kongzi, Confucius, Master of surname Kung, or the Daoist patriarch Laozi, Old Master.
"baron" nán 男, which is also used outside of its use as a peerage term to indicate male gender in individual names and in classifications such as "men", as the character's fundamental meaning is "male".
or with a Japanese twist:
Duke (公爵 kōshaku)
Marquess (侯爵 kōshaku)
Earl (伯爵 hakushaku)
Viscount (子爵 shishaku)
Baron (男爵 danshaku)
So there really not much dispute about what translation to use for the Chinese noble titles.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_nobility#Male_aristocracy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazoku#Development
 
We know and no one cares what bothers you or not.


Emperor is a perfectly good translation. Even Chinese translate Roman Emperor as Luoma Huangdi 罗马皇帝, Holy Roman Emperor as Shengsheng Luoma Huangdi 神圣罗马皇帝, or Byzantine Emperor as Baizhangting Huangdi 拜占庭皇帝.
皇帝 is different from emperor . in china,皇帝 is the son of celestial,it has the highest right.everyone is his people on the world. none can crown him.Roman Emperor,Holy Roman Emperor,the Sultans.the (great)Khan and other rules also are the people of 皇帝
 
皇帝 is different from emperor . in china,皇帝 is the son of celestial,it has the highest right.everyone is his people on the world. none can crown him.Roman Emperor,Holy Roman Emperor,the Sultans.the (great)Khan and other rules also are the people of 皇帝
Yeah, everyone is a person of Huangdi, except when Huangdi himself bows to Great Khan or another Huangdi. :p
 
there is no 皇帝 bows to great khan .Kublai Khan Crowned as 皇帝。Kublai Khan realized that 皇帝 is great than great khan
No. He realised that the best way to rule Chinese is to follow their customs. He was both Huangdi and Khan at the same time. Huangdi was the supreme title for Chinese, Qaγan was the supreme title for the Steppe people.