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Ddraig5400

Ddraig5400

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Apr 16, 2017
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What the hell happened to my favourite division?

The suddenly severe lack of stars is unsettling. What exactly is the reasoning behind this? The loss of the Stug III G's isn't a big deal, but the fact that all the Stug IV's are now novice is really concerning, and I feel like it destroys the division. The increase of it's gun to 1200m range doesn't redeem this, range means nothing if you can't hit your target in the first place, and I personally didn't ask for the change.

I mean, the whole selling point of this division, especially as the 'Mechanised' division for the Axis, in contrast to the 'Infantry' Divisions are:
- Stug's with stars
- Cheap Pz.Gren's
- Rocket Artillery
I feel like the 17th SS has lost part of it's identity, and what made it unique among the others.
I really hope they make a u-turn on this decision, does anyone else agree?
 
Seriously? That's a buff. You now have a Tank with 1200m range and a crap load of armor. It's comparable to a JPIV. Now your stugIV is actually useful rather than just being kiteable. Sure you'll still die max range to a 17pdr but the odds are a lot less for 76mm.
 
Karlburg said:
Stugs with stars isn't really unique to 17ss.
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While vetted Stug's aren't unique to them, they had a lot more than any of the infantry divisions.

Dianno5741 said:
Seriously? That's a buff. You now have a Tank with 1200m range and a crap load of armor. It's comparable to a JPIV. Now your stugIV is actually useful rather than just being kiteable. Sure you'll still die max range to a 17pdr but the odds are a lot less for 76mm.
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As I said in my OP, the buff to range, whilst nice, doesn't make up for losing elite and veteran stugs, since they wont have an easy time hitting anything. Furthermore, the range buff to the Stug IV makes one of the key strengths of Tank Destroyers redundant, as now the only advantage the Marder III has over the Stug IV, other than it's price, is veterancy.
 
I like this additional, the Stug IVs were just overpriced previous to this patch (Stug IIIs still are).
The +200m range is a significant buff, even at the expense of the veterancy - what's your 1000m hit chance worth if the enemy simply shoots from 1200m and you can't shoot back?

Furthermore despite being ~60% the price of the stug IV and having +1 vet, the Marder also has +1AP, +33% ROF and better Speed. It's by no means "redundant" with the stug, which vehicle is the better choice depends on the situation. Against decks that have Wolverines as their best AT, the Stug IV should now work very well.
 
It was unnecessary to remove the veteran StuG IIIGs from the deck, although the removal of veterancy from the StuG IVs is reasonable considering they have been given +200 range. I think the lack of veterancy in the tank section is going to make the 17th SS suffer as a division for 1v1 play, which is bad considering how strong some of the Allied divisions are in 1v1 games. For teamgames, I would say that this is more of a buff for the division, though.
 
Grobi said:
I like this additional, the Stug IVs were just overpriced previous to this patch (Stug IIIs still are).
The +200m range is a significant buff, even at the expense of the veterancy - what's your 1000m hit chance worth if the enemy simply shoots from 1200m and you can't shoot back?

Furthermore despite being ~60% the price of the stug IV and having +1 vet, the Marder also has +1AP, +33% ROF and better Speed. It's by no means "redundant" with the stug, which vehicle is the better choice depends on the situation. Against decks that have Wolverines as their best AT, the Stug IV should now work very well.
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I guess my complaints are based on my experience, where the tank with more stars is usually the one who wins. I'm not as impressed by 1200m range since, while a nice buff, it isn't necessary. I've never had a problem with my Stugs running into opposition, since they have a fairly easy time dealing with a target once in range, and I get them into range using the terrain.

Whereas when I play as the other infantry divisions, the unvetted stug III's are often a liability, 165 points that struggles to hit its target, and a fight against a Sherman or Cromwell could very well go against me.

Obviously this isn't game breaking, and I'm still going to play 17th SS half the time, but I would like to see at least a couple of Stug IV's with a star on them.
 
1200 m range is still a pretty big deal, it means you don't need to rely on the rather shaky idea of using specialist td's supporting meat shield stugs to engage high end allied armour.
 
the buff to 1200m is significant, because this mean the stug 4 can trade favorably against most armor used by allied inf division even at long range. The notable exception being the FF used by the Canadian.

Remember that despite the "mechanized" name, the 17ss is an inf div because of its 40 slot. both the scot and the canadian only get 2x challenger/FF in phase C, while the 17 ss get 4. In addition, the stug 4 retain its excellent HE, allowing it to provide HE fire support from longer distance.

Basically now the 17ss is a excellent compromise between the durability of an Inf division and the field presence of an Armor division.
 
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1200m range is a pretty big deal for the StuG IV... as ironhat said it allows one to engage high end allied tds short of a firefly frontally with little fear of destruction... every infantry division short of the canadians (which can be blown up using a pak43 anyways) now field armor without the range firepower or armor required to engage the StuG.... overall a good change..

although an option to have a vet 1 StuG wouldnt hurt.... the only real issue with 17th SS now is the loss of the SK18 and being forced to rely on 120mm mortars for indirect firesupport which is really really bad
 
gbem said:
although an option to have a vet 1 StuG wouldnt hurt.... the only real issue with 17th SS now is the loss of the SK18 and being forced to rely on 120mm mortars for indirect firesupport which is really really bad
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the 120mm only look bad considering the axis' rocket artillery. Howitzer have a 20 second aim time and mortar have a 10 seconds aim time.

Add to the fact mortar generally have a faster reload and more powerful shell means the mortar are better within its short range compare to the longer range howitzer. If howitzers were like semi-auto or bolt action Rifles, then the mortars are smg/Assault rifles.

the probem with axis mortar is really how rocket is just generally superior in the same role. the Rockets have the same 10 seconds aim time with a significantly more devastating barrage.
 
IronHat said:
the 120mm only look bad considering the axis' rocket artillery. Howitzer have a 20 second aim time and mortar have a 10 seconds aim time.

Add to the fact mortar generally have a faster reload and more powerful shell means the mortar are better within its short range compare to the longer range howitzer. If howitzers were like semi-auto or bolt action Rifles, then the mortars are smg/Assault rifles.

the probem with axis mortar is really how rocket is just generally superior in the same role. the Rockets have the same 10 seconds aim time with a significantly more devastating barrage.
Click to expand...

well yes and no... the biggest disadvantage of the mortar is range... at 1600m range counterbattery from allied artillery is essentially inevitable and due to the slow nature of towed artillery pieces survival is almost impossible as relocating before that shell arrives is simply impossible.... there is simply no way to doge that incoming shell without taking damage or losing the transport... and at least rocket arty fires fast enought to relocate via transport... essentially using the 120mm mortar is like using a disposable arty piece

contrast this to the SK18 against SPGs or towed howies... the much longer flight time of the shell makes doging incoming shells a much easier task... simply load up the towed howie in the transport and run..... or fast move the SPG away and congratulations youve wasted the time of the SK18... no what the SK18 allows one to do is to fire without the threat of losing a 120pt artillery piece to counterbattery you cant run from
 
I hope Eugen continues this tradition of making the 17th SS an awkward mismash of abilities to hammer the cruel historical realities of how "elite" and "well-equipped" SS units really were; especially by 1944 :).
 
Dianno5741 said:
Seriously? That's a buff. You now have a Tank with 1200m range and a crap load of armor. It's comparable to a JPIV. Now your stugIV is actually useful rather than just being kiteable. Sure you'll still die max range to a 17pdr but the odds are a lot less for 76mm.
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You must be disillusioned if you think Germany doesn't need buffs as a whole.
Heaven forbid if a division got a buff, wheraboo should have no income and no tigers xddddd
 
You must not be playing them right if you think they need more 1200m tanks. Besides this was a great buff to 17th SS that I support.

No, because I know how to kill cats with Shermans without demanding a buff unlike wehraboos demanding all tanks be god mode because Krupp steel.
 
Dianno5741 said:
You must not be playing them right if you think they need more 1200m tanks. Besides this was a great buff to 17th SS that I support.

No, because I know how to kill cats with Shermans without demanding a buff unlike wehraboos demanding all tanks be god mode because Krupp steel.
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Whats your win ratio and what percentage of games do you play as allies?
 
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