• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

EU4 - Development Diary - 26th of September 2017

Good afternoon all. While time's relentless march shows no sign of slowing and we are pulled closer to the bleak white embrace of winter, we can at least take solace that Tuesday has rolled around once again, and we can indulge in another Dev Diary for Europa Universalis IV.

I want to start off talking about the titular changes for the 1.23 Persia Update. As the name and previous diaries have shown, we've given quite the overhaul to the Persia region and I want to take a closer look at what has changed. For a more in-depth analysis of the map changes that have happened, I would recommend checking out the old dev diary @Trin Tragula wrote last month, which I will be plagiarizing borrowing slightly from for today.

political.jpg


It's a tricky time in Persia for the Timurid Empire. Ajam is considered an independent nation and the vassals Tansoxiana, Sistan, Khorasan, Fars and Afghanistan are chafing under the rule of the old and sickly Shah Rukh. So long as he lives, there is a great reduction to the liberty desire of these vassals but when he dies, the Timurid Empire is likely to fall into a long and costly civil war.

We're happy with the changes we have made in the region to model this, and have felt that the key players in the region were deserving of their own National Ideas. Note that some nations will share ideas with others in the area due to their similarities

Ajam: Independent nation, starting development: 93

QOM_ideas = {
Traditions = {
diplomats = 1
production_efficiency = 0.1
}
Ambition = {
diplomatic_upkeep = 1
}


qom_jibal = {
When the Arabs once came to Persia they dubbed our region Jibal, the mountains, as the many mountains of the Zagros and Alborz ranges is what defines it. On the western border of greater Iran the region is the gateway between the states of the Turkic Caucasus and Greater Iran.\nYet Jibal is not all mountains, for in the basins lie a number of Iran’s oldest and greatest cities and between these basins passes and roads connect the urban population of our Empire. As the empires before us, from the ancient Medes to the Timurids, we must fortify passes and patrol the roads as well as we can, as they are the lifeline of our state.

defensiveness = 0.2
}
in_honor_of_ali = {
Regardless of if they consider themselves Sunni or Shia, the great majority of our subjects honor the Imams, the family of Muhammad and even Ali. While this conviction is regarded as a weakness by some legal scholars it is something that unites our people, be they Sufi mystics, regular Sunnis, Alevis or Twelver Shias.

tolerance_heretic = 3
}
qom_legacy_of_the_ilkhans = {
For hundreds of years Iran and the Caucasus have been dominated by Turkic warriors. They have made up the military foundation of a number of states such as those of the Ilkhanate, Seljuks or more recently the Timurids. Ajam sits at the very center of the greater Turko-Persian region, and for this reason it was here that the Ilkhans once constructed their capital at Sultaniyya. Today the Ilkhans are long gone but their monuments and their traditions remain, in Sultaniyya their mausoleum still bear witness to the empire that once was.\nIf we want to dominate this region we must embrace the Ilkhanate ideals of kingship, and win the loyalty of the Turkic warriors that still dwell here.

land_morale = 0.1
}
qom_persian_language_and_court_culture = {
High Persian culture remains a constant through the ages, no matter which conquerors come and go. Iran has fallen many times, but in the end it is Persian language and culture that spread to their homelands. From Anatolia to Samarkand, and even Bengal, it is the tongue of Hafiz and Rumi that will open doors to traders, politicians and scholars.

diplomatic_reputation = 1
envoy_travel_time = -0.25
}
qom_tribes_of_iraq_e_ajam = {
These lands have been dubbed Iraq-e Ajam, or Foreign Iraq, by outsiders and is dominated by Persian citydwellers and Turkic warriors brought by the Mongols, Seljuks and Timurids. On the outskirts of the great settlements, however, a great number of groups of nomads and semi-nomads traverse and populate the region, Arabs, Turkomans, Baluch, Kalaj and Bedouin. Some have been here for centuries, others arrived more recently, all of them have traditionally been left mostly to their own devices. We should make use of these groups in our defences, as none knows the Persian countryside better than they do.

fort_maintenance_modifier = -0.1
global_manpower_modifier = 0.1
}
reform_the_diwan = {
#Same as Timurids
}
qom_shahanshah = {
"To this day the legacy of the Persian Empire lives in the form of the kingly title Shah, used by Persianate rulers everywhere. We must unite the entire Iranian people under our ruler, Shahanshah, the King of Kings."

reduced_liberty_desire = 10
}

Fars: Vassal of Timurids, starting development: 57
FRS_ideas = {
Traditions = {
global_trade_goods_size_modifier = 0.1
idea_cost = -0.1
}
Ambition = {
dip_tech_cost_modifier = -0.1
}
trigger = {
tag = FRS
}
free = yes

frs_land_of_the_persians = {
In many countries Persia and Persians, derived from Fars and Farsis, are the names used to refer to all of Iran. So important has our impact on the culture and economy of this region been. From the foothills of the Zagros mountains to the coasts of the Persian Gulf, the lands of Fars harbors some of the oldest and most famous cities of Iranians and Iranian culture.

tolerance_own = 2
}
frs_center_of_religion_and_philosophy = {
For centuries Fars and Shiraz has been a vibrant center of philosophy, theology and culture, attracting the great thinkers of its age from all over the Persianate and Islamic world. We must not squander this heritage, let us continue to patronize the arts, literature and theology so that we can continue to shine as the brightest jewel in Persia.

adm_tech_cost_modifier = -0.1
}
frs_diplomatic_prudence = {
frs_diplomatic_prudence_desc:0 "Where other regions have been quick to support new rising conquerors, or quick to surrender with armies outside of their walls, Fars has often favored a more careful and balanced approach. The key to survival in a dangerous world is not to surrender as soon as we are threatened, but it is also not to go looking for a fight that we don’t yet know who will win. As new claimants to supremacy in Persia come and go we will carefully consider our options. Our people will be here long after any newcomers are gone, regardless of if they win or lose their petty conflicts."

improve_relation_modifier = 0.2
}
frs_shirazi_wine = {
Legend has it that it was in Persia wine was once discovered. A girl, having lost the favor of king Jamshid, drank the fermented grape juice in order to end her life. Instead she found the secret of wine and in little time it spread from the royal court.\nWine has been produced and consumed in Persia for millennia, but none can compete with those made from the excellent grapes cultivated on the terraced slopes of the Zagros mountains in Fars. The reputation of Shirazi wine has spread far beyond the borders and is greatly in demand even in India and Europe.\nWe must expand our irrigation system and do what we can to increase our wine production, while marketing our highly sought after goods on foreign markets.

production_efficiency = 0.1
}
frs_shirazi_school = {
As a center of learning it is perhaps no wonder that the workshops of Fars have risen to fame for the great output of books and miniature paintings. Famous master painters and bookmakers have always settled in our cities and enjoyed our protection.\nThe Shirazi school can only blossom with lavish support to create more books, however, and that is something we must provide if we are not to be overshadowed by Indian or Azerbaijani bookbinders and painters.

embracement_cost = -0.1
prestige = 0.5
}
frs_integrate_the_qashqai = {
While Fars is home to many sedentary Persians, and great cities and industries, it is also populated by large groups of nomadic tribesmen. The Qashqai and other groups have often been at odds with the city dwellers, leading to expensive conflicts between the two that does not benefit the realm.\nWe must integrate the Qashqai and give them place in our cities while guaranteeing their rights to use land for grazing. In return we ask that our ruler will be consulted for the appointment of new Ilkhans, their traditional leaders.

global_manpower_modifier = 0.15
}
frs_capital_for_an_empire = { #The Zand Ambition
With its close proximity to the gulf trade routes, its great importance to Persian culture and its relative safety from the enemies of our people, Fars is an ideal place from which to rule a Persian state. Let us take inspiration from the great Empires before us and create a capital worthy to this name. We must expand and renovate every part of the capital, building new canals for irrigation, public baths, bazaars, city walls, squares, palaces, mosques, madrassahs and gardens.\nAll who wish should be allowed space to settle here for this will be the greatest capital man has ever seen!

development_cost = -0.1
}
}

Khorasan: Vassal of Timurids, Starting development: 20
KHO_ideas = {
Traditions = {
cavalry_power = 0.15
land_morale = 0.1
}
Ambition = {
technology_cost = -0.05
}
trigger = {
tag = KHO
}
free = yes

kho_land_of_the_rising_sun = {
With large deserts, high mountains and large tribal communities, Khorasan might seem like an inhospitable place. Yet it is here, at the crossroads of Central Asia, Iran and India that many empires have chosen to base their capitals. Under Shah Rukh the region has prospered in relative stability, and the from the markets of Herat to the shrines of Mashhad we have built a reputation as the home of both great scholars, and thriving cities.

diplomatic_reputation = 1
}
kho_rein_in_the_turko_mongol_emirs = {
The majority of our armies are still made up of the tribesmen that Timur brought with him to this region. By organizing these troops in a more centralized manner than his predecessor, Timur strengthened his military power but he also made these Turko-Mongol emirs very powerful men in their own right. Where he was able to command their loyalty through personal gratitude and marriages we need to win their support in more long term ways.

army_tradition = 0.5
}
kho_princely_appanages = {
A realm as diverse and geographically divided as Khorasan can be hard to hold together. Often provincial governors will have to act quickly and with little chance to ask the center for instruction. It is essential that we have governors that we can trust both in terms of loyalty and ability.\nThe Timurid/Genghisid practice of putting the princes of the dynasty in such positions would likely serve us well, every governor will be motivated to do the most of his position if he has hope to inherit the throne himself.

global_manpower_modifier = 0.1
}
kho_dynastic_chronicles = {
Khorasan has a long history as a center of scholarly learning, and our hold over this land is new and untested. Let us fund the great scribes of the age, allowing them to compose the greatest chronicles of our age, firmly establishing our house as the leading dynasty of Eastern Persia.

legitimacy = 1
}
kho_irrigation_network = {
Agriculture comes at great cost in Khorasan, the land is dry and there are no major rivers to speak of. Our Persian administrators are suggesting that if our cities are to reach their full potential we will have to invest in a great number of irrigation works and cannals. With enough water even the rarest fruits can be grown from Herat to Mashhad and we can build gardens to the envy of all of Asia.

global_trade_goods_size_modifier = 0.1
}
kho_great_sheiks_of_khorasan = {
These lands are home to many Sufi shrines, orders and their lineages. The great Sheiks often take an active part in the social and political life in our society, and their influence stretches far from our borders. Even the faraway rulers of India patronizes Khorasani Sheiks of the Chisti or Naqshbandi Sufis, and Great Sultans send letters hoping to lure our wise sages to their courts.

tolerance_own = 2
}
kho_protect_the_caravan_routes = {
Between the Oxus, India and Iran, Khorasan is a region of great importance for long range commerce. The Silk Road passes through, connecting Samarkand with Iran and the Mediterranean, and is joined in Herat, by the Grand Trunk Road from India.\nThis long journey is a perilous and arduous one for many merchants however. By vowing to protect all merchants passing through our lands, and constructing regular caravanserais along the trade routes, we can greatly limit the risks and likely attract even more wealth to our great cities

trade_efficiency = 0.10
}
}

Transoxiana:
Vassal of Timurids, starting development: 127
TRS_ideas = {
Traditions = {
land_morale = 0.1
cavalry_cost = -0.1
}
Ambition = {
idea_cost = -0.1
}
trigger = {
tag = TRS
}
free = yes

trs_mawarannahr = {
Transoxiana, the land beyond the Amu Darya, or Oxus, has been known since the days of the great Iskandar of Macedon as the end of Persian culture. Our lands are where Iran ends and Turan starts, a realm of great cities, but also dominated by Turko-Mongol tribes.\nIn more recent times Transoxiana was the starting point for Timur Lenk's Empire and it remains the base for many of the clans that supported his bid for power. As Timur has shown we could do great things as long as we keep them united.

cavalry_power = 0.2
}
trs_threshold_of_paradise = {
While he was far from the first conqueror to come to Transoxiana, Timur made the region the center of his Empire and he brought treasures, artists, builders and artisans from the entire world to his great capital in Samarkand. We must strive to uphold this legacy, and continue to embellish this foremost jewel among cities. From the courts in Castile to the palaces in Beijing everyone shall covet the gilded city on the Silk Road.

prestige = 1
}
trs_adept_diplomacy = {
Through education and training our rulers acquire the virtues of great kingship, but there is no school that will teach how to survive in the political climate of Transoxiana. Ever since the days of Timur, young princes, uncles and cousins have plotted against one another for the right to rule this region. When one of our princes reach adulthood and manages to take on the reins of power, we can be sure that they are, if nothing else, quite adept at espionage and politics.\nIf our realm is to ever be free of this poisonous atmosphere we must put an end to such infighting, striving to outsmart the lesser scions of the family once and for all.

spy_offence = 0.2
}
trs_turkoman_cannoneers = { #Babur's ambition
While it is going to be a long while from determining any battles in the open lands of Transoxiana, gunpowder promises to change warfare to its very foundation. Turkic cannoneers have already made a name for themselves in India and Iran. The time has come to make sure these talented men of war never leave our lands. Let us put the most skilled gunsmiths to work and create the greatest artillery arm in Central Asia.

artillery_cost = -0.15
}
trs_scientific_patronage = {
Our realm his home to some of the greatest minds of this era. Great thinkers, philosophers, writers, artists and astronomers. If we are to truly benefit from their brilliance, however, we must dare give them the tools to aim higher. Let us build great works and buildings in the name of science. We will provide astronomical observatories, libraries and all patronage aspiring minds might require.\n\n'Religions rise and fall, empires crumble into dust, but the works of science are for all time.

technology_cost = -0.05
}
trs_entrepot_of_the_silk_road = {
While many places benefit from being transit points for the Silk Road, we are are the center of one of its greatest Entrepôts. From east, to west traders know of the reputation of Bukhara and Samarkand, and are willing to cross the deserts of the Tarim Basin and Iran or the great steppes to the north, to be able to sell their wares here, bringing home our silk, paper and whichever exotic goods they can find here to their homelands.\nOur wealth depends on keeping the peace. Without Timur, and Genghis Khan before him, many find this too dangerous to undertake. We must endeavour to protect all traders in our lands and negotiate right of passage for any long distance traders that seek our markets.

global_own_trade_power = 0.25
}
chagatai_literature = {
#Same as Timurids
}
}

Afghanistan: Vassal of Timurids, starting development: 47
Already has National Ideas

Sistan: Vassal of Timurids, starting development: 14
No unique national ideas (as of writing)

Phew, that's quite a lot. Well, This. Is. Persia. so I think we can talk a bit more about changes in the area. In order to get to that I want to look over at the meek and unassuming nation of Ardabil, complete with its one province and 9 development

In the borderlands between the crumbling Timurid Empire and the Qara Qoyunlu, a number of small sheikdoms are nominal vassals of both powers. In practice many of them are independent in all but name. Most of their neighbors will not be shown until next week but the one you can see here, Ardabil, would rise to unprecedented fame. In 1444 the rulers of Ardabil are under the influence of a growing Islamic sect, the Safavid Order. Historically Ardabil is the embryo of the future Persian Empire and the Safavid Dynasty. As such, Ardabil has a new Government form of Feudal Theocracy which it shares with precious few other nations.

Feudal Theocracy:
  • +1 Missionary (for Kingdom and Empire Rank)
  • +1 Missionary Strength
  • +1 Tolerance of True Faith (+2 at Empire Rank)
Feudal Theocracy functions as a Monarchy, but with heavy religious focus. This can be adopted by nations who form Persia. While this is a free change with the 1.23 Persia Update, the accompanying Expansion will allow the use of Government Interactions made available for Feudal Theocracies:

Feudal Theocracy interactions.jpg



Each interaction has its own cost and a 5 year cooldown.

  • 50 ADM - Seize Clerical Holdings: -15% Build Cost for 5 years.
  • 50 DIP - Invite Minorities from Abroad: Gain -20% development cost and +1 random development in your Capital Area.
  • 50 MIL - Sanction Holy War: Grants a claim on all non-allied non-(own)subject bordering provinces which are owned by a nation who is not the Feudal Theocracy’s State Religion,
As a final piece for today's dev diary, I will leave you with two screenshots which have been long requests: Cultural and Religious mapmodes for the whole area we've been working on:

Cultural.jpg


religious.jpg


These can be tricky subject matter to nail down in our setup. As such, if there are what you feel to be mis-representations, I would encourage you to tag myself and @Trin Tragula in a post in the Suggestions forum, with sources to back what you feel should be changed.

Phew, that was quite the diary. Next week let's relax with some Rum to unwind.
 
Aahron - Caucasian culture is no way similar to middle eastearn. real Caucasians are Circassians, Vainakhs, Georgians and some Dagestanian ethnicities like Avar, Lezgin etc.
Caucasians have thier own unique flavour, clothes, Caucasian mountaineer mentality, architecture and so on...

Turkey is really specific case, Anatolian cultural family is really needed where we could group Kurds, Armenians*, Assyrians even Cilicians(?) And other Anatolian Turkish ethnicities.
*Armenians are similar to Kurds, Asyrians, Anatolians and Levantines rather than Caucasians, only the small part of Armenia was influenced by Georgians, majority of Armenians where living in Erzerum and Van lake area along with otht other middle eastern minority, which has nothing to do with Caucasus and Caucasian culture at all.

Azerbaijan was part of Iranic world, they have nothing to do with Anatolians tho. Language similarities does not implies that Turks and Azeribaijani's share same culture

Well.

Azerbaijan was as much part of the Iranic world as Armenia and Georgia (Georgia less so due to geographic distance) which were in the same sphere of influence, and this influence did not extend further north towards Circassians, etc. Lezgi people are not actually from Dagestan but from Azerbaijan (which used to extend until Derbent), which was in itself a Caucasian State that went through Iranization and Turkification, called Arran until 19th century (Arran - Iranian for Caucasian Albania, which you can look up on). Azeris originate mostly from Udi, Tsakhur, etc. people whose language shifted and did so multiple times (Caucasian - Iranian - Turkic), with admixture of Iranian and Turkic blood, and those nations’ numbers are now minuscule due to continuous assimilation. The Lezgi are pretty much the only nation of Albania (which had 26 Caucasian-speaking tribes in it) that actually emerged still having a large population. The name was later changed to Azerbaijan in aspiration to join the northern regions of Iran.

The way you explain Caucasians simply includes nations that still speak a Caucasian language. Allegedly, Armenian language also shifted from Caucasian to Indo-European. Yet the cultures - whether be clothes, food, etc. - remain similar, minus religious differences (this is especially true for South Caucasus). For instance, chukha is a national clothing for all of the Caucasian states, including Armenia and Azerbaijan, but not for Assyrians, Turkish people, Kurds or whatever else you’re citing. Armenia and Azerbaijan particularly share a lot of cultural similarities, which resulted in hostile rivalry between the two and endless search for who invented what.

Also, there are huge differences in how the South Caucasian and North Caucasian histories developed, the populations they interacted with, and as a result, the way people in the North and South look.

PS: studied ancient South Caucasus and its later history.
 
Lol, if that was considered pejorative and offensive, then almost every Slavic country (and Hungary) would have to go and search for a new name for Germany.
i had heard we took word germany from slavs in balkans and i guess it would be similar in slavic languages to 'nemçe' in ottoman turkish? well we changed it to french version allemagne -> almanya after found republic.

you can do it too :D
 
Azerbaijan was as much part of the Iranic world as Armenia and Georgia (Georgia less so due to geographic distance)
that's nonsense... Persia was literally ruled by Azeri's (Qajar, Qizilbash and Safavid) from Tabriz area. they were basically leading Iranic world.
-modern Armenia (eastern aka iranic armenia) was adminsitrated by different Persian/Azeri governors, demogrpahics was pretty diverse there, Yerevan even had majority muslim population, so it was indeed part of Iranic world at that time, small Iranic influence over eastern Armenia doesn't makes all Armenians part of Iranic world
- Iran never managed to subjugate western and south Georgia and only controled (1555-1747) Kingdom of Kartli-Kakheti (eastern Georgia) which managed to keep it's own Bagrationi dynasty as governors and keep some kind of ethnic purity and unique identity unlike (Yerevan area).

Lezgi people are not actually from Dagestan but from Azerbaijan (which used to extend until Derbent), which was in itself a Caucasian State that went through Iranization and Turkification, called Arran until 19th century (Arran - Iranian for Caucasian Albania, which you can look up on).
Lezgins are both from Southern part of Dagestan and northern Azerbaijan,
Caucasian Albania was conglomerate of tribes, one of them were Lezgins.
Azeris originate mostly from Udi, Tsakhur, etc.
nice propaganda, you guys really have identity crisis. most of Azeri's today are hardcore Turkophiles, that's new way to separate from Iranic world, meantime they also claim to be ancient Caucasian Albanians to legitimate your claims over modern Azerbaijan and resist Lezgin separatism, who are clearly part of Caucasian culture.
Armenian language also shifted from Caucasian to Indo-European. Yet the cultures - whether be clothes, food, etc. - remain similar, minus religious differences (this is especially true for South Caucasus).
where is proof that Armenians spoke Caucasian related language before IE? so Erzerum and Van area Armenians were wearing same clothes as Circassians and Dagestanians? Kurds and Armenians were living alongside for centuries. northern Mesopotamia, Van lake etc were pretty much messed up/diverse region and ethnicites there were very tied with each others and shared same culture.

Azeri's and Armenians are as much Caucasians as Turks are Balkanians. if western Turks were adopting Balkan clothes, food, etc that doesn't makes whole Turkey part of Balkanian culture group. same goes to Azerbaijan. northern Azerbaijan probably got some kind of Caucasian influence by mixing with local Lezgins and Georgians, while South was purely Iranic.
For instance, chukha is a national clothing for all of the Caucasian states, including Armenia and Azerbaijan, but not for Assyrians, Turkish people, Kurds or whatever
Chokha was adopted even by Cossacks, so what?

Armenia and Azerbaijan particularly share a lot of cultural similarities, which resulted in hostile rivalry between the two and endless search for who invented what.
reminds me YugoSlavian conflict lmao
 
- Iran never managed to subjugate western and south Georgia and only controled (1555-1747) Kingdom of Kartli-Kakheti (eastern Georgia) which managed to keep it's own Bagrationi dynasty as governors and keep some kind of ethnic purity and unique identity unlike (Yerevan area).

Arsacids, Chrosroids, etc. all ruled over Georgia/Iveria for a long time, alongside all SC.

Lezgins are both from Southern part of Dagestan and northern Azerbaijan,
Caucasian Albania was conglomerate of tribes, one of them were Lezgins.
nice propaganda, you guys really have identity crisis. most of Azeri's today are hardcore Turkophiles, that's new way to separate from Iranic world, meantime they also claim to be ancient Caucasian Albanians to legitimate your claims over modern Azerbaijan and resist Lezgin separatism, who are clearly part of Caucasian culture.

Dagestan is an artificially created state. Southern Dagestan used to be part of Arran/Shirvan. It is not to resist Lezgin separatism - Lezgins are only concentrated in one small area of Azerbaijan, whereas the Albanian tribes were spread out all through the country and were numerous. I assume you had never been to an Udi village, of which some remain in Azerbaijan - those people look identical to Azeris. Lezgins looks slightly different due to mixing with more northern nations. FYI, Dagestani/Chechen, etc. cultures are now extremely Islamic, with a ton of Arab traditions - not spread amongst Azeris and not very Caucasian in spirit. So, by your definition then, only Georgia exemplifies Caucasus -- perhaps the region should be renamed to Georgia? :)

Turkophilia in Azerbaijan is state-led due to the political situation, albeit not as extreme as in 90s, with more attention shifting towards Albanian history.

Azeris and Armenians are as much Caucasians as Turks are Balkanians. if western Turks were adopting Balkan clothes, food, etc that doesn't makes whole Turkey part of Balkanian culture group. same goes to Azerbaijan. northern Azerbaijan probably got some kind of Caucasian influence by mixing with local Lezgins and Georgians, while South was purely Iranic.

First, there's no such thing as Southern and Northern Azerbaijan historically. There are Arran/Shirvan and Azerbaijan, and those two were never part of the same, besides now the language. Local Georgians? No Georgians in Azerbaijan, except in historic Ereti-Kakheti (who are assimilated Albanians). But there were, as I said, 26 tribes...

Chokha was adopted even by Cossacks, so what?

Because Cossacks are part Circassian in origin.


Anyway, I am not going to waste my time trying to prove something to a Georgian nationalist who's all too ready to judge upon neighbours, particularly having little to no information on the history of Azerbaijan. I still love Georgia though, a beautiful country. Also, I'd advise you to look into genetic testings, they clarify a lot, unlike your romantic arguments.
 
aahron
Arsacids, Chrosroids, etc. all ruled over Georgia/Iveria for a long time, alongside all SC.
we were talking about EU timeline not ancient era tho.
Iberia is the eastern Georgia not whole Georgia, even so meantime western part of Georgia aka Lazica was governed by Roman-Byzantines, that doesn't implies that Georgians are Roman or Hellenic.

Dagestan is an artificially created state. Southern Dagestan used to be part of Arran/Shirvan.
Sure Dagestan is artifical, i'm not arguing about medieval Arran and Shirvan.

I assume you had never been to an Udi village, of which some remain in Azerbaijan - those people look identical to Azeris. Lezgins looks slightly different due to mixing with more northern nations. FYI, Dagestani/Chechen, etc.
phenotype=/=genetic=/=culture
north-eastern Caucasians were hardly mixing with each other, for some reason they were trying to keep ethnic purity . it was vice versa relatives of Lezgins in south Caucasus were target of assimilation by Iranic people.

cultures are now extremely Islamic, with a ton of Arab traditions - not spread amongst Azeris and not very Caucasian in spirit.
WE ARE ARGUING ABOUT EU TIMELINE

Islam among Vainakhs and Circassians were spread between XVII-XIX century, before they were either Pagan or Christian. religion is not key thing for defining culture. even after adoption of Islam by Vainakhs, they kept Caucasian mentality and traditios.
So, by your definition then, only Georgia exemplifies Caucasus -- perhaps the region should be renamed to Georgia?
you assumed it wrong, Circassians, Ossetians, Vainakhs, some Dagestani ethnicites and Georgians are Caucasian but not Armenians and Azeri's.
Turkophilia in Azerbaijan is state-led due to the political situation, albeit not as extreme as in 90s, with more attention shifting towards Albanian history.
Azerbaijan is not rightful descendant of Caucasian Albania, but Lezgins are. tbh Karabakh has more right to claim to be descedant of Caucasian Albania than Azerbaijan :D

First, there's no such thing as Southern and Northern Azerbaijan historically. There are Arran/Shirvan and Azerbaijan, and those two were never part of the sam
are you assuming that Tabriz and Shirvan Azeri's had different culture?
Because Cossacks are part Circassian in origin.
even if that were true, would you group Cossacks to Caucasian cultural group?

Anyway, I am not going to waste my time trying to prove something to a Georgian nationalist who's all too ready to judge upon neighbours, particularly having little to no information on the history of Azerbaijan. I still love Georgia though, a beautiful country. Also, I'd advise you to look into genetic testings, they clarify a lot, unlike your romantic arguments.
pathetic excuses, next time you have to back your statements by realistic argument.
I will repeat once again GENETICS doesn't affect of culture neither on phenotype.
 
@DDRJake Looks good and excited to play but wondering about the naming of Ajam - I'm not going to set myself up as an authority but I was of the impression it was a dubious word to use so wondering if this is something that has been discussed before (its been on the map a while but now is more prominent).

M
y understanding is that originally it meant non-Arabic speaker then attached specifically to Persian speakers, with some translations/etymologies relating it to mumbler, mute etc. and having a generally negative connotation (analogous to barbarian in Greek).

I can't speak to how widespread it is but I have come across debate as to whether it is a derogatory term / racial insult - others better informed than me may be able to confirm / reject this notion as not something I know a huge amount about.

At least in Turkish sources from this period, "Ajam" is just the normal term used to refer to Persia and Persians (I.e. Iran is "Ajamistan" and the Safavid ruler is the "Shah of Ajam"), without a negative connotation. Can't speak for its use in Arabic and Persian sources, though.

As far as I know from Iranian history Arabs called Persian Ajam for being non-Arab or mute cause they could not speak Arabic. I might be wrong not everything in Iranian books are correct.
The reason it is called Ajam in-game is because the Arabs referred to that area (north-central Iran) as Iraq-i Ajam, as opposed to the more recognisable Iraq-i Arab, and the name stuck.
 
Ajam (or eraq-e ajam) certainly is an exonym, it's also the period name for the lands covered by this tag (one that shows up even on European maps).
The state it covers in the game is also not a native Persian one, it's the Timurid successor state under Muhammad bin Baysonqor. Having him start as the ruler of "Persia" would have misrepresented the nature of his domain quite a lot (and given him Persian ideas).
Like others in the thread I have never heard it used in a derogatory fashion however, even if it is not a native name originally.
The older "jibal" is another name for the same part of Iran but no longer in use in the eu4 era and is also an exonym anyway.
 
@Trin Tragula
What do you think about "make Constantinople capital" decision to Turkish beyliks and Rum as well?
 
Rum will be able to take this decision as well as access some other things normally reserved for the Ottomans.
That's awesome:)
Can you say more about this other things or are they gonna take part of upcoming dev. diary?
 
That's awesome:)
Can you say more about this other things or are they gonna take part of upcoming dev. diary?
I bet that Rum will also have access to the new Janissary unit, and this will be unveiled next tuesday.
Or more likely, this is what I hope for alongside a rework of the decadence disaster.
 
Turkish culture in Anatolia should be paired with the Greek culture and The Greek Group should be renamed Anatolian. The Turks in Anatolia assimilated and merged their culture with the Greek culture in Anatolia plus it balances things out nicely. Easy problem solved no new cultures or new coding needed.
 
Last edited: