Blut und Schlacht (Blood and Battle): A Learner’s Saga

[Bullfilter]

Q6.1 - Every single religion has a Moral Authority score. Basically, how respected that religion is by its own followers. A high MA means less chance of heretics cropping up and causing trouble. There are also minimum MA requirements for actions such as calling great holy wars (40%) or reforming a pagan religion without holding all of the holy sites (50% with 3-4 sites).

Q6.2 - You could press the De Jure claim if you want Sviatopolk as a vassal, say if he had good traits for a counciller. But the straight up conquest sounds much better here. Land into your ruler's personal demesne and extra moral authority is great.

Thank you Nuada, useful info on the MA. Had thought that about conquest here, especially as the current chief is dissolute and weak.

Conquest is definitely the better alternative here, especially as you are far from your demesne limit. This is why I said making claims is useless for Tribal Germanic Norse rulers like Rurik -- the CBs available to you are far outshine those of more typical religions (other than Islam). Claim, de-jure or otherwise, is primarily for rulers of Christian, Indian, etc. rulers who don't have much to use against their fellow believers. You, however, do. And you should use them as much as you could, as they would disappear once you become Feudal or Christian or whatever. That's the theme of tribals and nomads -- you expand quick, but will have trouble keeping it all together due to gavelkind and rebellious vassals and whatnot.

Again, very helpful clarification Alyssea, appreciated as always. I’m planning to conquer and raid like mad with Rurik while I can - he’s certainly built for it! Will start to worry more about succession in a year or two. Especially when we find out whether his first child with the new queen is a boy or a girl. A future chapter will dig into the succession question as it applies to this realm and laws.

Speaking of, Moral Authority should be boosted as much as possible if you plan on staying Norse. As someone else has mentioned above, you need at least 50% MA to reform your religion if you only have three holy sites for the Germanic faith (you can see Holy Sites on the religion tab or on the religious map mode as white provinces). Otherwise, you'd need all five sites... which is troublesome, as one of the holy sites (Zeeland) is in the hands of the Carolingians.

Other than that, cool update! Yay for war!

I’ve certainly learned a bit more now about MA and religion. I will stay Norse and see what luck I have taking the dynasty down a Norse path, even if it clashes with the predominantly Slavic Rus kingdom we hope to conquer. Will see what challenges and learnings come out of that!

Thanks for the encouragement. The next few entries will bring a bit of learning there too, as the seiges so far have been simple things. Will see if I get to meet any armies in the field soon!

 

[Nuada Airgetlám]

It's certainly possible to stay unreformed as a pagan but it's tough to resist the encroachment of Abrahamic missionaries and holy wars.

Reforming does require at least three holy sites, and those are all a bit west of you. Might be worth factoring whether or not you're gunning for those counties into your plans.

https://ck2.paradoxwikis.com/Religion#List_of_religions

 

[Alyssea]

It's certainly possible to stay unreformed as a pagan but it's tough to resist the encroachment of Abhrahamic missionaries and holy wars.

Reforming does require at least three holy sites, and those are all a bit west of you. Might be worth factoring whether or not you're gunning for those counties into your plans.

https://ck2.paradoxwikis.com/Religion#List_of_religions

Oh, right. It's not just Zeeland that is in Carolingian hands in 867. So is Braunschweig. You can definitely get nab the other three to reform, but again this will require 50% Moral Authority.

Primary ways to increase MA is to win religious wars (including Conquest), raid infidel temples and build your own temples (possibly from the same cash you got from raiding other temples!)

Here's a link to help.

 

[Nuada Airgetlám]

Another factor to consider.

A non-Christian holding Braunschweig or Cologne after 900 AD is one of the ways to quickly kick-start Catholic crusades. On the plus side, once you reform a pagan religion you eventually gain access to great holy wars.

https://ck2.paradoxwikis.com/Crusades,_jihads_and_great_holy_wars

 

[stnylan]

Time to expand a bit Sounds like things are ready for it.

 

[markkur]

Just a note...this how-to AAR is coming along very nicely. It will make an excellent Ref-Doc for me to later use. TY for the effort on behalf of many others too.

 

[Stonehands77]

As someone looking to get back into CK2 after a year or so away (EU4 is quite a time sink), this has been immensely helpful. And really makes me want to try a pagan nation and get some pillaging going!

 

[Locklen]

If memory serves, moral authority also factors into your chance to convert counties to your religion.

On another note, the hunting focus will enable the Great Hunt decision during the months of September and October. This grants the chance for some traits, though Rurik has some of the good ones already, and a small amount of prestige.

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

Gumarich Schreiber wrote that the new year of 868 (by the infidel Christian styling) began by King Rurik declaring he would pursue a ‘New Way of Life’ as ruler.

Subtlety, thy name is BULLFIGHTER!!!

On 8 February, a bandit raid on the Holmgarðian forces besieging the Temple of Hiiumaa in Saaremaa supposedly ‘killed many of the besieging soldiers’, although Rurik’s commanders reported it seemed no more than around 20 soldiers had been lost.

Be careful with this mechanic. It doesn't often happen but I have seen defenders manage to knock a significant percentage of the attacking force out of the siege with this move. Often it is annoying when they knock you to just below the number of men you need to siege the place effectively in the first place.

And muster his standing army – now numbering over 1,200, with his original raiders and the zealots currently quartered in Luki – in the capital and thus be in a position to legally declare war and have a sizable host ready to immediately march on Toropets, catching them before they were able to muster their meagre levy (estimated at around 524 when summoned).

Even with the requirement to besiege the holdings, it may be that the standing army alone may be enough to do the job.

It should be, given the start time and the region you are in.

Prince-Marshal Helgi argues in favour of a straight conquest. Toropets would go directly to the King, to manage as he would. He would also gain moral authority among Germanic peoples for 20 years. Hrörekr, coming from a more legalistic viewpoint, believes the de Jure claim should be exercised, bringing Toropets into the realm and making Sviatopolk the King’s vassal.

Gumarich recorded a healthy debate was had by the councillors, with vassals naturally gravitating towards a more diffused county governance and less power to the King through a de Jure claim, while Helgi naturally favoured an approach that kept things more closely held “in the family”. A decision would be reached that afternoon, but first they broke for a hearty lunch. Perhaps some jugs of ale and a haunch of venison would make the decision easier!

Straight conquest. Vassals are something most pagan tribes can do without until they get humongous (like twelve counties or so!) for one person to hold everything. Right now, you are fine to control everything. In fact, if you still have chiefs under you that rule counties, take their land off them. At this stage, you want to control everything yourself and smash your way into having an empire large enough to require multiple vassals (and multiple headaches).

Ch 6 Q2: Declaration of War. Second, are there any ‘hidden’ consequences to adopting one course or the other form later, other than those listed in the effect descriptions? Because otherwise, I think Rurik is tempted by a straight conquest, which seems to be a course that has slightly more long-term advantage to him, gets rid of a potentially unhappy and not very effective vassal and then allows him to keep or reallocate the county as he chooses.

There are, but we've covered them before. You can only hold so much land before the administration becomes too much for you. Tribal pagans can hold an awful lot by themselves but you can't go on forever. Getting a good wife and steward helps, as well as improving your laws and stewarding stat but eventually you have to delegate. But you are nowhere near that size yet. And remember, if you are staying pagan and tribal, any vassal you have is much more destabilising than it would be under feudalism (they also split up their lands upon their deaths, and you end up with however many vassals that gives you. So it does tend to multiple quite a bit as soon as you start handing land out).

 

[Rufy_King]

As @Locklen said, an higher moral authority makes it easier to convert people of different religion.

For this reason AND for the fact you are a viking, I say Conquest.

As for the religion thing... I would say to remain pagan for the time being, and I usually prefer to remain pagan to the bitter end, but I can understand if you change.

 

[Asantahene]

Looking forward to more conquest. As others have said it’s by far the better course at this stage.

 

[PVT Ascoobis]

A bit late to the party but I love learning AAR's, and pagan campaigns. I feel like you are missing out on half the pagan fun: Concubines. They're a great way to get a lot of kids, and fast. Unfortunately that splits your holdings that much more when you die, but it can be worth it early in the campaign. Look for unmarried women of your culture and religion, and right click their portrait. Genius, strong, quick, attractive are great traits for concubines of the right age - if you can find them. There are lots of options when it comes to concubines, so play around with it a little bit. Each one gives you a monthly prestige bonus, and daughters of the nobility will give you a one time prestige bump if you can capture them in a raid - a really, really fun but seriously messed up way to expand your dynasty's claims.

Good luck man! Looking forward to seeing how this turns out, especially once you hit the magical 500 prestige barrier.

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

A bit late to the party but I love learning AAR's, and pagan campaigns. I feel like you are missing out on half the pagan fun: Concubines. They're a great way to get a lot of kids, and fast. Unfortunately that splits your holdings that much more when you die, but it can be worth it early in the campaign. Look for unmarried women of your culture and religion, and right click their portrait. Genius, strong, quick, attractive are great traits for concubines of the right age - if you can find them. There are lots of options when it comes to concubines, so play around with it a little bit. Each one gives you a monthly prestige bonus, and daughters of the nobility will give you a one time prestige bump if you can capture them in a raid - a really, really fun but seriously messed up way to expand your dynasty's claims.

Good luck man! Looking forward to seeing how this turns out, especially once you hit the magical 500 prestige barrier.

Forgot about them. Can be fun if a tad chaotic. I mean, if you get even one extra wife you tend to get eighteen children on average. Which....just leads to chaos.

 

[Bullfilter]

A bit late to the party but I love learning AAR's, and pagan campaigns. I feel like you are missing out on half the pagan fun: Concubines. They're a great way to get a lot of kids, and fast. Unfortunately that splits your holdings that much more when you die, but it can be worth it early in the campaign. Look for unmarried women of your culture and religion, and right click their portrait. Genius, strong, quick, attractive are great traits for concubines of the right age - if you can find them. There are lots of options when it comes to concubines, so play around with it a little bit. Each one gives you a monthly prestige bonus, and daughters of the nobility will give you a one time prestige bump if you can capture them in a raid - a really, really fun but seriously messed up way to expand your dynasty's claims.

Good luck man! Looking forward to seeing how this turns out, especially once you hit the magical 500 prestige barrier.

Forgot about them. Can be fun if a tad chaotic. I mean, if you get even one extra wife you tend to get eighteen children on average. Which....just leads to chaos.

Not late at all - welcome aboard PVT Ascoobis ! With barely a year and a bit of game time gone, “the night is still young” - including for concubines . Will give that some thought though, as you mention, there’s also the concern about succession sub-division. The queen is currently pregnant, so I might see whether that’s a boy or a girl: I’ve seen much mention in AARs of the “heir and a spare” principle. But guess, apart from the prestige bonus and “genetic talent spotting”, I want to have enough options should war, accident or illness strike down the scions of House Rurikid.

 

[Bullfilter]

It's certainly possible to stay unreformed as a pagan but it's tough to resist the encroachment of Abrahamic missionaries and holy wars.

Reforming does require at least three holy sites, and those are all a bit west of you. Might be worth factoring whether or not you're gunning for those counties into your plans.

https://ck2.paradoxwikis.com/Religion#List_of_religions

Oh, right. It's not just Zeeland that is in Carolingian hands in 867. So is Braunschweig. You can definitely get nab the other three to reform, but again this will require 50% Moral Authority.

Primary ways to increase MA is to win religious wars (including Conquest), raid infidel temples and build your own temples (possibly from the same cash you got from raiding other temples!)

Here's a link to help.

Another factor to consider.

A non-Christian holding Braunschweig or Cologne after 900 AD is one of the ways to quickly kick-start Catholic crusades. On the plus side, once you reform a pagan religion you eventually gain access to great holy wars.

https://ck2.paradoxwikis.com/Crusades,_jihads_and_great_holy_wars

If memory serves, moral authority also factors into your chance to convert counties to your religion.

On another note, the hunting focus will enable the Great Hunt decision during the months of September and October. This grants the chance for some traits, though Rurik has some of the good ones already, and a small amount of prestige.

As @Locklen said, an higher moral authority makes it easier to convert people of different religion.

For this reason AND for the fact you are a viking, I say Conquest.

As for the religion thing... I would say to remain pagan for the time being, and I usually prefer to remain pagan to the bitter end, but I can understand if you change.

Thanks to Nuada Airgetlám, Alyssea, Locklen and Rufy_King for the additional and very useful info on religion, MA and holy sites etc. and to all who have endorsed conquest as the best course of action for the first territorial grabs - plan to get a few done in quick succession.

Time to expand a bit Sounds like things are ready for it.

Just a note...this how-to AAR is coming along very nicely. It will make an excellent Ref-Doc for me to later use. TY for the effort on behalf of many others too.

As someone looking to get back into CK2 after a year or so away (EU4 is quite a time sink), this has been immensely helpful. And really makes me want to try a pagan nation and get some pillaging going!

Thanks Stnylan and markkur and welcome aboard Stonehands77: glad this AAR is satisfying the requirement of making that game and all its various subtleties more accessible not just to your humble authAAR but to all who read and want to either teach or learn! I think it’s the kind of friendly cooperation the forums can be very good at - all in the context of a bit of story-telling, which I also promise to develop .

 

[Bullfilter]

TBC, thanks once again for the detailed feedback!

Subtlety, thy name is BULLFIGHTER!!!

Always aim to please .

Be careful with this mechanic. It doesn't often happen but I have seen defenders manage to knock a significant percentage of the attacking force out of the siege with this move. Often it is annoying when they knock you to just below the number of men you need to siege the place effectively in the first place.

Thanks for the warning - this time I got off lightly. Nothing can be done about it, I suppose?

Straight conquest. Vassals are something most pagan tribes can do without until they get humongous (like twelve counties or so!) for one person to hold everything. Right now, you are fine to control everything. In fact, if you still have chiefs under you that rule counties, take their land off them. At this stage, you want to control everything yourself and smash your way into having an empire large enough to require multiple vassals (and multiple headaches).

All the chiefs under me have counties (only one each for now). I can see why owning all the counties myself could be useful for developing them, but what method should I use for stripping them, and would it have adverse consequences? I plan to soon have an extra 3-4 conquered counties to add to the personal domain and a few of my current chiefs are quite reasonable in martial skills - will I lose their services as commanders or invite revolt or opprobrium by taking all their lands?

There are, but we've covered them before. You can only hold so much land before the administration becomes too much for you. Tribal pagans can hold an awful lot by themselves but you can't go on forever. Getting a good wife and steward helps, as well as improving your laws and stewarding stat but eventually you have to delegate. But you are nowhere near that size yet. And remember, if you are staying pagan and tribal, any vassal you have is much more destabilising than it would be under feudalism (they also split up their lands upon their deaths, and you end up with however many vassals that gives you. So it does tend to multiple quite a bit as soon as you start handing land out).

That’s interesting - I’ll see how this initial period of rapid expansion goes and also take advice from a later Thing on how to manage the growing realm as I go. For now, I just want to get to the point of having difficulty managing it! Interested in the views of other readers on this aspect for tribals. I think it will be a continuing theme.

Thanks once again TBC for your detailed advice and comments - very much appreciated.

 

[Eurasia]

Not late at all - welcome aboard PVT Ascoobis ! With barely a year and a bit of game time gone, “the night is still young” - including for concubines . Will give that some thought though, as you mention, there’s also the concern about succession sub-division. The queen is currently pregnant, so I might see whether that’s a boy or a girl: I’ve seen much mention in AARs of the “heir and a spare” principle. But guess, apart from the prestige bonus and “genetic talent spotting”, I want to have enough options should war, accident or illness strike down the scions of House Rurikid.

There is one method that is kind of "gamey". Pick a woman with great skills that can be added to your own and is too old to have kids and make her the wife. Then find women with good traits, like genius or attractive, that can be passed on to offspring and make them the concubines. So you produce kids who have good traits while having a wife who supports you own skills. And when thw wife passes away you can pick another wife whose skills help you with whatever current needs you have at the time.

I prefer to role play so I don't do this.

 

[Bullfilter]

There is one method that is kind of "gamey". Pick a woman with great skills that can be added to your own and is too old to have kids and make her the wife. Then find women with good traits, like genius or attractive, that can be passed on to offspring and make them the concubines. So you produce kids who have good traits while having a wife who supports you own skills. And when thw wife passes away you can pick another wife whose skills help you with whatever current needs you have at the time.

I prefer to role play so I don't do this.

Noted. I’m a bit like you, preferring to role play and go where the events take things, but in the right society, situation and with the right character, this could be a credible tactic or worth a try - a scheming philanderer kind of character.

All: I need to finish the next chapter of my other AAR (RL has been insistent of late) which isn’t too far from done, then will return to Rurik’s first war of conquest and coming more closely to grips (if battle is offered) with some of the related game mechanics.

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

Noted. I’m a bit like you, preferring to role play and go where the events take things, but in the right society, situation and with the right character, this could be a credible tactic or worth a try - a scheming philanderer kind of character.

All: I need to finish the next chapter of my other AAR (RL has been insistent of late) which isn’t too far from done, then will return to Rurik’s first war of conquest and coming more closely to grips (if battle is offered) with some of the related game mechanics.

Turkey comes first after all.

After real life, obviously

 

[Bullfilter]

Turkey comes first after all.

After real life, obviously

The concession to RL is grudging but necessary . Turkey and Rurik are now taking turns - a very democratic approach for two absolutist nations!