The voice of a Chinese player

[Dracolithfiend]

Censorship remains all-pervading - in fact is getting worse - and sales portals like Steam exist in a legal grey-zone that means they could be shut in mainland China at any moment if the government decides to do so. Basically Paradox would be taking a big risk with limited pay-off.

It's not as big of a risk as you imagine. There are 40 million native Mandarin speakers that do not live in the PRC and that number is increasing plus the billion or so inside China itself. I highly doubt they would ban Steam as it is willing to comply with nations and ban specific games in specific countries. It's all speculation regardless.

Perhaps people from China could weigh in on the possibility of their country outright banning Steam in the near future?

 

[FOARP]

It's not as big of a risk as you imagine. There are 40 million native Mandarin speakers that do not live in the PRC

Most of these are Taiwanese (~24 million) and they largely use traditional characters.

and that number is increasing plus the billion or so inside China itself. I highly doubt they would ban Steam as it is willing to comply with nations and ban specific games in specific countries. It's all speculation regardless.

Perhaps people from China could weigh in on the possibility of their country outright banning Steam in the near future?

Well, speaking as someone who lived in China for a number of years, I remember people saying that the banning of Twitter, Google, and Facebook were highly unlikely, yet the authorities then went ahead and did it. Even a willingness to comply with the requirements of local authorities did not save Yahoo from being blocked, and instead only left them open to (justified) accusations of collaboration with a dictatorship.

What will happen, what may already be happening, is that a local version of Steam will be launched by one of the Chinese internet companies, at which point Steam gets blocked.

 

[Dracolithfiend]

Yahoo was actually unblocked but yes, I guess that is why so many people in china spoof their IP's and get around the Great Firewall of China. Also China is not a dictatorship, though Steam has already collaborated with actual dictatorships to get their platform accepted in various countries. Paradox could always work with Tenshin or any other steam competitor to release their games on another platform if Steam is unable to retain access to China.

 

[FOARP]

Yahoo was actually unblocked but yes, I guess that is why so many people in china spoof their IP's and get around the Great Firewall of China. Also China is not a dictatorship, though Steam has already collaborated with actual dictatorships to get their platform accepted in various countries. Paradox could always work with Tenshin or any other steam competitor to release their games on another platform if Steam is unable to retain access to China.

Yeah, Yahoo eventually got unblocked after being blocked... but then they shut down their China operation as it wasn't going anywhere. All their compromises, including giving access to information about dissidents to the government, were for nothing.

As for China not being a dictatorship, well, this isn't a political forum so I'm not going to bother telling you how completely wrong you are about that.

Steam is currently accessible in China as it isn't widely used and doesn't have any major domestic competitors. When that starts changing you can expect the blocks to come, just as they came for Google, Facebook, Twitter etc.

 

[icedt729]

I'd argue that blocking services like Google and Twitter is only partly about control, and partly about protectionism. Blocking those platforms has helped them build up domestic firms like Baidu, and it's a safe strategy for them since the domestic market is so large. So I'd also argue that Steam is safe until its business gets large enough that Zhonggong wants to let a Chinese company take over.

 

[wingren013]

The problem with Steam is that its all or nothing, a lot of games are reliant on the Steam API (like modern Paradox games) and literally won't function without it. If there is a not insignificant risk of completely being cut out of the market due to interactions between third parties a smaller publisher like Paradox might not be able to justify the expense.

 

[MN121MN]

Hmm, it seems the discussion of this issue revolves around distribution issue, while I'm somewhat more interested whether the content of the game, i.e. the depiction of China, will be an issue or not.

 

[icedt729]

Hmm, it seems the discussion of this issue revolves around distribution issue, while I'm somewhat more interested whether the content of the game, i.e. the depiction of China, will be an issue or not.

The Second World War and the Chinese Civil War are touchy issues because they have direct implications on the legitimacy of the People's Republic of China and on the current political status of Xinjiang, Tibet and Taiwan. But anything earlier than that seems to be fair game.

 

[treb]

About the Jade Dragon, In the Baidu post bar, players now joke that they can finally be a dog for hundreds of years in advance. But why not make the Tang dynasty appear directly.

Do they know about mods like Umbra Spherae and Tianxia? with JD just around the corner they might be of interest

 

[FOARP]

Hmm, it seems the discussion of this issue revolves around distribution issue, while I'm somewhat more interested whether the content of the game, i.e. the depiction of China, will be an issue or not.

The reason we're discussing distribution is because, if it is a problem, cutting off distribution is the way this would play out.

HOI has content which could easily get it banned at any moment if the authorities were so inclined:

- It includes the ROC flag.

- It shows China divided.

- It displays the ownership of supposedly integral Chinese territories (e.g., Taiwan, Tibet) in ways that suggest something less than 100% ownership.

- It shows Xinjiang as independent​

It's true that HOI has been sold without being blocked in China in the past. It's also true that in the past the Chinese authorities have spoken against this game. Basically this is a game that could get blocked at any point.

 

[wingren013]

The Second World War and the Chinese Civil War are touchy issues because they have direct implications on the legitimacy of the People's Republic of China and on the current political status of Xinjiang, Tibet and Taiwan. But anything earlier than that seems to be fair game.

As far as I know the Qing Dynasty also has some conditions attached to its depiction due to being the direct predecessor of the PRC and some touchy stuff about certain figures in it (and the fact that Chinas modern borders are partly due to Qing expansionism) so that would be Vicky2(3) and Hoi4 that paradox would potentially be unable to pass.

 

[icedt729]

- It includes the ROC flag.​

​

That alone isn't problematic. The official stance of the CCP is that the Republic of China existed from 1911-1949 and ended when Mao proclaimed the People's Republic of China at Tiananmen. The thing that makes it problematic is that the CCP wants things to be presented as the CCP and KMT being rival political parties within the ROC, but Paradox games (rightly, in my opinion) show the ROC basically as "Chiang Kai-shek's warring state" with Mao Zedong and the warlords getting similar treatment. So from the CCP's perspective it gives the KMT too much legitimacy as the "real" ruling party of the ROC while also undermining the legitimacy of territorial claims that the PRC inherited from the ROC.

 

[IratePirate-]

Never underestimate the arbitrary decision-making of a one party state eager to bolster its own domestic players.

 

[Sledjer]

Never underestimate the arbitrary decision-making of a one party state eager to bolster its own domestic players.

"Eager to bolster its own domestic players" You do realize that China just started to implement a social credit system that penalizes people that play videogames, right?

 

[FOARP]

​

That alone isn't problematic. The official stance of the CCP is that the Republic of China existed from 1911-1949 and ended when Mao proclaimed the People's Republic of China at Tiananmen. The thing that makes it problematic is that the CCP wants things to be presented as the CCP and KMT being rival political parties within the ROC, but Paradox games (rightly, in my opinion) show the ROC basically as "Chiang Kai-shek's warring state" with Mao Zedong and the warlords getting similar treatment. So from the CCP's perspective it gives the KMT too much legitimacy as the "real" ruling party of the ROC while also undermining the legitimacy of territorial claims that the PRC inherited from the ROC.

The issue is that displaying the ROC flag is frowned on. Sure, you'll see it in historical TV serieses and in museums, but the government could easily use it to have something they don't like banned.

 

[Tavior]

"Eager to bolster its own domestic players" You do realize that China just started to implement a social credit system that penalizes people that play videogames, right?

Big Brother is here to stay apparently.

 

[Liquid Ghost]

About the Jade Dragon, In the Baidu post bar, players now joke that they can finally be a dog for hundreds of years in advance. But why not make the Tang dynasty appear directly.

I don't get the joke...

大明 and 犬? Is that it?