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So when is 16th Luft getting a nerf?

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LegioX

Second Lieutenant
May 2, 2017
189
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They can literally spam FK288's with 88's and there is nothing allies can do in phase A. By phase B they can bring in 6 more FK288's to support OP 3 star 88's and then it's game over. Tell me how this div is not OP?

You can't counter heavy bombs with air by phase B, b/c by Phase B all his 3 star 88's will either 1 shot suppress your air or shoot it down. FK288's are basically a shield for the 88's to cntrl+Q down the map. Throw into the mix, they have almost the same amount of infantry as the 15th scotts, they can just spam the frontline with cheap inf with a CMD nearby.
 
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I have seen what you said in the ingame chat and you're definitely not telling the truth imo.
Their arty do nothing to sextons, it is very slow to make sextons panick with that, try it you'll see. And you canno't kill sextons with it.
Though two sextons in different locations are enough to counter battery and kill these things very quickly. It is the power of the gun from sextons (88mm) with area of effect of 30+meters).
You canno't have a shitload of these fk288"s, you may have 4 fk288's max in phase A (400 points), 6 max in phase B (600 points). Meaning there is no way there is so much arty on the ground from 16th and 88's plus infantry at the same time.
This arty canno't hold each enemy infantry unit spread around the map, quite the opposite. And Lw jägers loose pretty much every 1vs1 engagement.
There are only 2 88's in the deck in phase A, once they are down or suppressed you're free to go. If the player goes for them both, he has only 240 points to work with, 2 FK288"s only and one recon/one infantry. Nothing to say the least.
Plus 16th Luftwaffe needs open ground to make these 88's work.

There is no heavy bomber in the 16th luftwaffe deck in B, there is the Me109 (one 250kg bomb for infantry) the JU 188 (with 28 light 50kg bombs), the FW 190 (two 210mm rockets for infantry/light vehicles) and the HS 129 in B these last two are not bombers. All these planes cost between 190 and 240 points.
The two big booms with two 1000kg bombs come in phase C and cost 280 points.

To counter the 16th Luftwaffe 88's, you have to use arty and obusiers with fire positionning and smash it in phase A. If you play the treeline and wait phase C to make ground, of course you'll have more trouble.
 
Gilmund said:
I have seen what you said in the ingame chat and you're definitely not telling the truth imo.
Their arty do nothing to sextons, it is very slow to make sextons panick with that, try it you'll see. And you canno't kill sextons with it.
Though two sextons in different locations are enough to counter battery and kill these things very quickly. It is the power of the gun from sextons (88mm) with area of effect of 30+meters).
You canno't have a shitload of these fk288"s, you may have 4 fk288's max in phase A (400 points), 6 max in phase B (600 points). Meaning there is no way there is so much arty on the ground from 16th and 88's plus infantry at the same time.
This arty canno't hold each enemy infantry unit spread around the map, quite the opposite. And Lw jägers loose pretty much every 1vs1 engagement.
There are only 2 88's in the deck in phase A, once they are down or suppressed you're free to go. If the player goes for them both, he has only 240 points to work with, 2 FK288"s only and one recon/one infantry. Nothing to say the least.
Plus 16th Luftwaffe needs open ground to make these 88's work.

There is no heavy bomber in the 16th luftwaffe deck in B, there is the Me109 (one 250kg bomb for infantry) the JU 188 (with 28 light 50kg bombs), the FW 190 (two 210mm rockets for infantry/light vehicles) and the HS 129 in B these last two are not bombers. All these planes cost between 190 and 240 points.
The two big booms with two 1000kg bombs come in phase C and cost 280 points.

To counter the 16th Luftwaffe 88's, you have to use arty and obusiers with fire positionning and smash it in phase A. If you play the treeline and wait phase C to make ground, of course you'll have more trouble.
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So by this logic if your playing any division other than Guards Armored you are F’ed. Because I believe they are the only ones who have phase A sextons.

Also why would you need LW jagers to be in a 1v1 fight? Their troops only cost 25 points and you get a free rocket to go with them. Just get 1-2, have CMD nearby and your golden. Have any pesky inf coming up to support, just pin them with your superior range of 2600m with FK288s

Also 2 sextons in phase A with GA will cost you 300 points. There is literally know way you can afford that and still hold a solid line in phase A.
 
Most infantry cost 25 points or near. I'll tell you the same thing, why would you let your own infantry alone against 2-3 Lw-jagers... Be serious with the real power of Lw jagers, they are even dishartened, meaning you panick them faster.
The 16th Luftwaffe will not be able to make ground with much in phase A, you're able to make ground against him in phase A even if you take sextons.
What are the map you're talking about cause there are treelines everywhere, it's normandy heh...
And 16th luftwaffe is one of the worst decks in 1vs1 facing treelines, definitely.

Whick deck have you used against 16th luftwaffe on which map ? We'll speak of real things.

In GA you've the sextons and the Cromwell VI to deal with the 88's.
In 2nd Infantry, the M7's DD.
2DB is more tricky cause you have not M4 obusiers nor M7 until B.
3rd Armored has the M21 MMC, then M7 in B.
3rd Canadian has the priests DD in B, sextons in B.
4th Armored has the M4(105) and M21 MMC.
6th Airborne have cromwell VI in B.
The Scots have the Churchill 5 then priests.
And 1 Pancerna have sextons in A.

The worse is probly the 101st airborne (but why would you would wanna take the 101st airborne against 16th luftwaffe on open ground, which is a infantry/planes deck).

And everyone has smoke!
 
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use 1200 support tanks with out fire to shoot 5 m infront of 88s they are slow and can not hide. the 288 has no he at all, so its not that effecitve in low numbers. really 16, isnt that op.
88s
 
Depending on map and opponent, Luftwaffe can be OP, but mostly they're just kind of tedious and obnoxious if they're anything notable at all. Building the division around incredibly accurate, instant-aim, 1200m guns that can shoot everything was just a dumb idea. It's way too prone to either being incredibly dominant or a tedious game of whack-a-mole micro. The best outcome is you end up with some 88s in the backfield acting like 88s in every other German division that has them... which obviates their whole schtick.

If I had my 'druthers:
-Give the 88's AP shells an aim time.
-Make the 88s 0-star in A and 1-star in B.
-Make all of the shorter ranged AA they have elite, excluding the Bren(e) which is already a decent ersatz SUP that happens to be able to shoot up. This still leaves them with devastating AA, but forces them to choose between dedicated AA in the shorter range pieces or the versatility of the 88.
-Elite ME 109 in phase A to act as a multirole "fighter" in support of the shorter ranged AA.
 
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Reducing the stars of the 88mm isn't a good idea. What has the Division left after you nerf the 88mm Flaks? The 16. Luftwaffen-Felddivision has easy defeatable infantry, nearly no tanks or armored vehicles and no fighters. The Division is specialiced on their strong anti air. Another problem of the Division is his lack of anti-tank guns. The 16. Luftwaffen-Felddivision is just able bring 2 Pak 38 and 2 Flak 36 in phase A. So the 88mm is forced to do the anti-tank role, too. An encounter with a Churchill V, Sherman 105mm, Priest D7, etc. is very risky for a Flak 36, because one shot is enough to stun it. The 88mm needs to kill the enemy tank first or it's definetely dead. I think all allied Divisions are able to play one of these tanks in phase A and in combination with artillery it is a very good counter for the Flaks. When you nerf the stars of the 88mm it will lose all encounters with heavy infantry support-tanks and will make the 16. LW-FD to easy pray for nearly all allied divisions. I think the balance of this Division is fine. It's easy to learn, but hard to master. And currently there are a lot of ways to defeat it.
 
Cherrybomb said:
An encounter with a Churchill V, Sherman 105mm, Priest D7, etc. is very risky for a Flak 36, because one shot is enough to stun it
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What a bullshit.
AOE-hit is pretty difficult and risky to manage. Also it needs around 3 accurate shots to stun 88s. But even nearly stunned elite 88 can hit target with great accuracy.
 
Cherrybomb said:
I think the balance of this Division is fine. It's easy to learn, but hard to master. And currently there are a lot of ways to defeat it.
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I too find a division that's literally 'buy 88s, buy howitzers, fire arty at anything threatening' "hard to master"

I'm not sure the balance is the problem, as I said before, it's just a really poorly designed division. They put up their AA screen, build up an artillery park and just play that all game. It's probably absolute cancer in 10v10 games. In normal games, it's not a big deal, you're just locked out of the allied decks without good arty tabs.
 
I just want to know why most of their inf has AT capabilities? Divisions like the 17th SS can be countered since they do not have sufficient AT for their inf squads IE: rush up light tanks and such. With the 16.Luft you have to account for a lot of AT on the field and negates putting pressure on units in phase A. Just my two cents
 
LegioX said:
They can literally spam FK288's with 88's and there is nothing allies can do in phase A. By phase B they can bring in 6 more FK288's to support OP 3 star 88's and then it's game over. Tell me how this div is not OP?

You can't counter heavy bombs with air by phase B, b/c by Phase B all his 3 star 88's will either 1 shot suppress your air or shoot it down. FK288's are basically a shield for the 88's to cntrl+Q down the map. Throw into the mix, they have almost the same amount of infantry as the 15th scotts, they can just spam the frontline with cheap inf with a CMD nearby.
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to be honest, you was just bad it that game after which one you wrote the topic. Problem was not in 16, all you was trying to do is counterbattery my forces instead of doing something really useful. but yeah, 16th is pain in the ass. but 4th even stronger.
 
and_oceans said:
to be honest, you was just bad it that game after which one you wrote the topic. Problem was not in 16, all you was trying to do is counterbattery my forces instead of doing something really useful. but yeah, 16th is pain in the ass. but 4th even stronger.
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And was i just suppose to not counter battery you and let your FK288's and 88's run YOLO on the field? Your statement makes no sense. The entire counter to the 16th. Luft is artillery.

I mean unless you want to just play at the 16th
 
and_oceans said:
9th panzer is pretty meh. why nerf?
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9th Panzer is very good in 1V1. You literally know what the player will do (spam Pnzr's 2) and rush, but you do not know where. You can place AT all over the place, but somewhere along the line will be weak. Who cares if you lose a pnzr 2, once that AT gun shoots its game over with the auto cannons. After that he can just bliztkrieg your line and in no time the game will be +2. Once you can recover somewhat it's a lost cause b/c your so far behind.

I played a guy in a rank 1v1 match that was literally spamming Pnzr2's (that 40 recon and 55 pnzr2's are sure nice). I knew he was going to rush. I placed every AT gun in my deck in phase A with bazooka support around map. I killed 4-5 tanks, but with cheap cost, he just spammed some more at next tick. All the while, my 75 point AT guns (which can almost buy 2 panzr 2 recons) and 35 point recon bazooka squads were overwhelmed ie: game over. Once he breaks through the line its game over, because +2 will rack up the points quick.

I guess i will just be forced to play 4th Armored and spam b26's in phase A. since that seems its the only way to combat it.
 
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LegioX said:
And was i just suppose to not counter battery you and let your FK288's and 88's run YOLO on the field? Your statement makes no sense. The entire counter to the 16th. Luft is artillery
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instead of deploying 6 howitzers you could, I don't know, help your friend on other flank with tanks, or take the main forrest with proper firesupport because inf without firesupport, assaulting forrest, is YOLO. XYLO is a crap. I stopped deploying units at you flank at the beggining of phace B, because you was no longer a threat
 
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