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Dev Diary #91: Starbases

Hello everyone and welcome to another Stellaris development diary. Today's dev diary marks the start of dev diaries about a major upcoming update that we have named the 'Cherryh' update after science fiction author C.J. Cherryh. This is a major update that will include some very significant reworks to core gameplay systems, reworks that we have been prototyping and testing for some time. Right now, we cannot say anything about the exact nature of the update or anything at all about when it will be released, other than that it's far away. Normally, we wouldn't be doing dev diaries on an update at this stage at all, but there's simply so much to talk about that we have to start early. Cherryh will be a massive update, the largest one we've done to date, and there are many new and changed things to talk about in the coming weeks and months.

Please bear in mind that screenshots are from an early internal build and will contain art and interfaces that are WIP, non-final numbers, hot code and all that business.

Border Rework
We've never been entirely happy with the border system in Stellaris. While it generally works fine from a gameplay perspective, it has some rather quirky elements, such as being able to claim ownership of systems that you have never visited and indeed have no ability to reach and making it hard to tell what the exact border adjustments will be when planets are ceded or outposts are built. For this reason, we have decided to fundamentally rework the Stellaris border system to be based on solar system ownership. Each system will have a single owner, with complete control of the system, and borders are now simply a reflection of system ownership rather than a cause for it to change. In the Cherryh update, who owns a system is almost always based on the owner of the Starbase in said system.
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Starbases
A Starbase is a space station orbiting the star of said system. Each system can only have a single Starbase, but this can be anything from a remote Outpost to a massive Citadel with its own 'fleet' of orbiting defense stations. Starbases can be upgraded and specialized in a variety of ways (more details on this below), and is the primary means of determining system ownership. This means that wars are no longer fought for colonies controlling a nebulous blob of border that may not actually include the systems you really want, but rather for the exact systems you are interested in, and their starbases. This change of course would not be possible if we kept the wargoal system that exists in the live version of the game (just imagine the size of that wargoal list...), but more on that in a couple weeks.
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As Starbases now determine system ownership, it will no longer be possible to colonize or invade primitives outside your borders in the Cherryh update, but if a system contains a colony and no starbase, it will still count as being inside the borders of the colony's owner. These restrictions are moddable. Since Starbases now cost influence to construct (see below), we have removed the influence cost for colonizing and attacking primitives.

Starbases entirely replace the old system of Frontier Outposts.

Starbase Construction
With borders from colonies gone, empires now start only owning their home system, with a Starbase already constructed around their home star. To expand outside their home system, empires will have to construct Outposts in surveyed systems. An Outpost is a level 'zero' Starbase that has only very basic defenses and cannot support any buildings or modules, but also does not count towards your maximum Starbase Capacity (more on that below). Building an Outpost in a system costs influence, with the cost dependent on how far away the system is and how contigous it is to your empire as a whole, so 'snaking' or building starbases to ring in a certain part of space will be more influence-costly than simply expanding in a natural way. Starbases do not cost any influence upkeep, just an up-front cost when first building one in a system. As this change makes influence far more important in the early game, there will also be significant balance changes to empire influence generation in the Cherryh update.
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As an aside note, because we felt it made very little sense to have a home system with a fully built Starbase but no surveyed planet, empire home systems will now start surveyed, with a only slightly randomized amount of resources, and mining/research stations for some of those resources already in place. This should also help make player starts a little less random, ensuring that you are never *completely* without resources in your home system.
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Another thing we have been wary about when working on this is making sure that building the Outposts for each system does not simply feel like adding tedium. Right now, between the fact that which systems you choose to spend your limited influence on is an extremely important choice, and various tweaks and interface improvements we are making to ease up the process of developing your systems, we are confident that this will not be the case. We've also made it so that there are no entirely 'empty' systems (systems with no resources at all), as we discovered during playtesting that spending influence to claim such a system felt extremely unrewarding.

Upgrades and Capacity
Each empire will have a Starbase Capacity that represents the number of upgraded Starbases they can support. There are five levels of Starbases:
Outpost: A basic Outpost that exists only to claim a system. Costs no energy maintenance and does not count towards the Starbase Capacity, and cannot support buildings or modules. Outposts will also not show up in the outliner or galaxy map, as they are not meant to be interacted with at all unless it is to upgrade the Outpost to a Starport.
Starport: The first level of upgraded Starbase, available at the start of the game. Supports 2 modules and 1 building.
Starhold: The second level of upgraded Starbase, unlocked through tech. Supports 4 modules and 2 buildings.
Star Fortress: The third level of upgraded Starbase, unlocked through tech. Supports 6 modules and 3 buildings.
Citadel: The final level of upgraded Starbase, unlocked through tech. Supports 6 modules and 4 buildings.
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Regardless of the level of the Starbase, so long as it is not an Outpost, it will use 1 Starbase Capacity and will show up on the map and in the outliner. Overall, the design goal is for the vast majority of Starbases to be Outposts that you never have to manage, with a handful of upgraded Starbases that are powerful and critical assets for your empire. Going over your Starbase Capacity will result in sharply increased Starbase energy maintenance costs. Starbase Capacity can be increased through techs, traditions and other such means. You also gain a small amount of Starbase Capacity from the number of Pops in your empire. If you end up over Starbase Capacity for whatever reason, it is possible to downgrade upgraded Starbases back into Outposts. It is also possible to dismantle Starbases entirely and give up control of those systems, so long as they are not in a system with a colonized planet.
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Spaceports and Ship Construction
Starbases fully replace Spaceports in the role of system/planet defense and military ship construction. Spaceports still exist, but are no longer separate stations but rather an integrated part of the planet, and can only build civilian ships (Science Ships, Construction Ships and Colony Ships). To build military ships you will need a Starbase with at least one Shipyard module (more on that below). Starbases also replace Spaceports/Planets in that they are now the primary place to repair, upgrade, dock and rally ships, though civilian ships are also able to repair at planets.
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Modules and Buildings
All non-Outpost Starbases can support Modules and Buildings. Some of these are available from the start of the game, while others are unlocked by tech. Some modules and buildings are only available in certain systems, for example Trading Hubs can only be constructed in colonized systems.

Modules are the fundamental, external components of the Starbase, and determine its actual role. Module choices include Trading Hubs (for improving the economy of colonized systems), Anchorages (for Naval Capacity), Shipyards (for building ships, duh), and different kinds of defensive modules such as gun turrets and strike craft hangar bays that improve the Starbase's combat ability. There is no restrictions on the number of modules you can have of a certain type, besides the actual restriction on module slots itself. This means, for example, that you can have a Starbase entirely dedicated to Shipyards, capable of building up to 6 ships in parallell. Modules will also change the graphical appearance of the Starbase, so a dedicated Shipyard will look different from a massive defensive-oriented fortress brimming with dozens of gun turrets.
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Buildings represent internal structures inside the Starbase proper, and typically work to enhance modules or provide a global buff to the Starbase or system as a whole. Building choices include the Offworld Trading Company that increases the effectiveness of all Trading Hub modules, and the Listening Post that massively improves the Starbase's sensor range. You cannot have multiples of the same building on the same Starbase.
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Defenses
One of the fundamental problems with the military stations in the live version of the game is that they simply do not have enough firepower. Even with impressive hit points and shields, a station with at most a dozen or so guns simply cannot match the firepower of a whole fleet. An another issue is the ability to build multiple defense stations in the same system, meaning that no single station can be strong enough to match a fleet, as otherwise a system with several such stations will be effectively invulnerable. For this reason we decided to consolidate all system defenses into the Starbase mechanics, but not into a single station. Starbases come with a basic array of armaments and utilities (gun and missile turrets, shields and armor, etc), with the exact number of weapons based on the level of the Starbase. These are automatically kept up to date with technological advances, so your Starbases won't be fielding red lasers and basic deflectors when facing fleets armed with tachyon lances.
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Additionally, Starbases (with the exception of Outposts) have the ability to construct defense platforms to protect them. Constructed defense platforms will form a 'fleet' around the Starbase, supporting it with their own weapons and giving Starbases the firepower needed to engage entire fleets. The amount of defense platforms a Starbase can support may depend on factors such as starbase size and modules/buildings, technology, policies, and so on. The exact details here are still being worked on, but the design intent is that if you invest into them, Starbase defenses will scale against fleets across the whole game rather just being completely outpaced in the late game as military stations and spaceports currently are in the live version.
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One last note on Starbases: For a variety of reasons (among them to avoid something like the tedious rebuilding of Spaceports that happens at the end of wars) Starbases cannot be destroyed through conventional means. They can, however be disabled and even captured by enemies. More on this in a couple weeks.

... whew, this was a long one but that's all for today! Next week we'll continue talking about the Cherryh update, with the topic being Faster than Light travel...
 
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If thee was indeed indefinite number of military stations in additional to Starbase then you run into the problem where you need a bigger doomstack to overcome a single starbase. Which would be self-defeating in terms of breaking up Doomstack stack.
Exactly.
 
Choosing which system to expand to is absolutely a strategic decision, because you can't simply expand to them all. That's like saying choosing which rival you'll declare war on first isn't a strategic decision because your long-term plan is to attack them all.

Super late on this, And I haven't seen every post. But if you do see this, a system similar to selecting sector systems should be implemented to automate construction of these outposts late-game.

Totally fine by if its locked behind a mid-game tech for an improved constructor ship. It would solve some of the tedium, while still letting the player make the strategic choice. (Or take everything once minerals spiral out of control)
 
If i develope some starbases into shipyards, will this shipyards still be visible in the side window, when the starbases/shipyards belongs to a sector?

At the moment, i need to have 10 or more planets as coreworlds, so i can easily start the ship-production.
 
DEVS,

Just adding my two cents here....

I'm new to Stellaris, but not new to strategy games. I've patiently waited to sink my teeth into Stellaris, and now that I have, it's been bitter sweet. Suffice to say, my first run of things had my Xenophobia plant people doing great ...until unprovoked, another faction I came across decided "we can live in peace" .....and then literally within 5-10 minutes more of play time closed their boarders and shortly after declared war on me. Again, I did nothing (that I'm aware of) to provoke their sudden interest in my UTTER DESTRUCTION. Their doom stack of 4.2k ships vs, my 2.8k was no match. The game ended soon after with my ships in pieces and my home world obliterated. I was playing as a pacifist, and didn't have any developments TOO close to their boarders, or ships etc. in their territory or near it. So, I'm left perplexed why the AI turned heel and wiped me out w/o justification and with no provoked reason. It's dishearteningly playing so many of these epic strategy games that, ultimately, come down to one play-style: WARMONGERING ....destroy them quickly before they destroy you! I already have TW series for that mind-set. It's mind numbing and stale! From Paradox, I expected more depth then what's been my experience in Stellaris. I long for something fresh w/ multiple ways of completing the game besides "KILL THEM ALL."

The good news in all this ...is everything I'm reading in your DEV Diary posts on the upcoming major changes sounds EXTREMELY promising, and I can't wait to see them go live!! Thank you for being the company you are by supporting your games the way you do. Keep it up! Cheers!
 
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So, I'm left perplexed why the AI turned heel and wiped me out w/o justification and with no provoked reason.
You answered your own question:
Again, I did nothing (that I'm aware of) to provoke their sudden interest in my UTTER DESTRUCTION. Their doom stack of 4.2k ships vs, my 2.8k was no match.

Basically you were weak and had no allies. Since they knew attacking you would carry no consequences and victory was guaranteed, they did just that. And given that you lost and nobody retaliated against them, they were proven right.

Early game, your survival depends on either being strong yourself or having strong allies who are either guaranteeing your independence or have a defensive pact with you. Especially if there's a hostile Advanced Start empire near your spawn.

Also, feel free to ignore the "fleet cap", it's more of a "fleet suggestion" ^^ You should be WAY over it. If you're not on the verge of bankrupcy, your fleet is not big enough. And if you didn't have enough energy and/or minerals to afford a big fleet, you probably weren't mining enough. The resource priority throughout the whole game goes more or less like: minerals -> energy -> food (only if bio) -> science and unity. Later on, science and unity take food's place and you should replace some farms with more useful buildings. By late game you probably have no more use for unity so that's when you demolish all your monuments so you can squeeze a couple more minerals out of your planets.

As you get further into the midgame you can afford to float more energy and minerals but not too much. Play Stellaris economy the same way you'd play Starcraft: if you have more minerals than you know what to do with, buy more units. If you can't buy more units, buy more things that make more minerals.
 
Also, feel free to ignore the "fleet cap", it's more of a "fleet suggestion" ^^ You should be WAY over it. If you're not on the verge of bankrupcy, your fleet is not big enough. And if you didn't have enough energy and/or minerals to afford a big fleet, you probably weren't mining enough. The resource priority throughout the whole game goes more or less like: minerals -> energy -> food (only if bio) -> science and unity. Later on, science and unity take food's place and you should replace some farms with more useful buildings. By late game you probably have no more use for unity so that's when you demolish all your monuments so you can squeeze a couple more minerals out of your planets.

As you get further into the midgame you can afford to float more energy and minerals but not too much. Play Stellaris economy the same way you'd play Starcraft: if you have more minerals than you know what to do with, buy more units. If you can't buy more units, buy more things that make more minerals.
I can say from plenty of experience that going this extreme is not at all necessary, unless you are in a multiplayer with some twinks that do this. If you are, the best remedy is to ally against them and completely wipe them out - sad, but much better for everyone else in the long run and a perfectly rational response to empires that do this.

Being weak really is something to avoid, however. Keep an eye on the empires listing; it will tell you when other empires are superior to you in terms of fleet strength, fleet capacity and technology (use the tooltip to see the breakdown). You will likely need to keep at or close to your cap if you have any neighbours who are militaristic or expansionist-minded. Keeping a decent fleet doesn't mean you have to use it to beat down every neighbour, but lack of one will make you look like a target to every aggressive empire out there. Allying with other pacifists/xenophiles is also a good option, but even then, if you are too weak, they will likely see you as a vassal rather than a proper ally who is "pulling their weight". Speaking of vassals - that is another option, if a bit of a sour one: offer to be a vassal or tributary of one powerful empire in order to have it protect you from the others.

If you don't like this sort of game, there are a few things in the startup settings you can do to make it less of an issue. Turn off "advanced AI starts" and choose "random" rather than "clustered" empire starts for a game with more exploration and building before conflicts arise (which they inevitably will, at some point, but you should be Federation building, by then).

In the end, the galaxy is a dangerous place. That doesn't mean that you are forced to be mindlessly aggressive - but it does mean you need to watch your back.
 
Princess Stabbity & Balesir - THANK YOU! I really appreciate the constructive feedback to improve my gaming skills. Based on what you've said, I really need to step back and appreciate the fact that, yes - I was weak, and WOW - the computer AI identified that and said ....bye bye bud. I respect what you're saying, and I agree: I did not vest much on my defense. However, my only nit-pick about that would be that the AI did this w/o scouting or intel. You'd think they'd at least fly some "birds" into my galaxy to get a "feel" for my empire. Aww well ...is what it is.

I've already started a new game...Stellaris is certainly addicting ...but I DEF am looking forward to its next MAJOR patch. From the DEV notes, it sounds like we'll eventually have 20-30% of the game revised for the better (I hope!)
 
Has there been any mention of "spoils of War" mechanic ? Aside from projects on wreckages. Imagine a sectore owed by your opponent consisiting of 3 systems, system 1 produces 30% energy adn 30% minerals, PLUS storage for the unused/not transfered to capital surplus , system 2 the same and system 3 40% of each. When your raiding party takes over teh spaceport why not take the minerals and energy stored with you, as spoils of war, adding to the attrition of the enemy ?
 
Has there been any mention of "spoils of War" mechanic ? Aside from projects on wreckages. Imagine a sectore owed by your opponent consisiting of 3 systems, system 1 produces 30% energy adn 30% minerals, PLUS storage for the unused/not transfered to capital surplus , system 2 the same and system 3 40% of each. When your raiding party takes over teh spaceport why not take the minerals and energy stored with you, as spoils of war, adding to the attrition of the enemy ?

Sounds like a promising idea. Afterall, all that energy and minerals has to be stored somewhere. It certainly shouldn't be game breaking, but still, even if it there was a 5-20% "salvage" cache of minerals and energy reward for taking over a spaceport (% increasing based on level - aka size - of said spaceport), that be something over nothing eh?
 
I can't help but feel disappointed with the upcoming changes, I really like Stellaris because of it's uniqueness and how it stands out against my other choice 4X games. Now it's beginning to turn into Sins of a Solar Empire. Unifying FTL travel methods, choke points to funnel combat and removal of shared systems.
 
Do the Starbases have to be around a star?
Why not place them anywhere in system, and allow constructors the ability to "tow" them to a different location (like during a change in control)
 
Sounds like a promising idea. Afterall, all that energy and minerals has to be stored somewhere. It certainly shouldn't be game breaking, but still, even if it there was a 5-20% "salvage" cache of minerals and energy reward for taking over a spaceport (% increasing based on level - aka size - of said spaceport), that be something over nothing eh?
Exaclty, something on the road to supply losses. Perhaps the Evil Purifiers would notice and start defending their twrritory ?
 
Who's manning all these starbases? They should come with one or two pop tiles IMO.

What would be the point of having population on starbase? 2 tile space habitat?

That would be like ~9 starbase, assuming max size, time 2 population each. Which is close to 18 tile planet research/unity penalty which is pretty deep for a tall empire. Not so much for wide.

For that reason alone. I am not supporting this.
 
i wish they fix the precursor 1 & 2 events and have at least a Fast mode games

so we can finish the game in minutes in multiplayer.
oh well hahaha

but the Border System, is already nice why do you need to change it.
well i'll wait for this update before I judge the new update as bad or good.

oh, one question why do I always have more Energy and Food than Minerals.

I mean in the first vanilla Stellaris.
I have WAY WAY more Minerals than Energy.

and Food doesn't seems to reduce.
it's like, it's worthless to have so much food in the system.
why put the Food Resource in the First place, if it isn't that important

will there be a Map Selector In the Next Patch?

I mean I'm getting tired of Ring and other preset Galaxy
I mean shouldn't it have a Scenario base Maps ?
or something close to that ?
 
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What would be the point of having population on starbase? 2 tile space habitat?

That would be like ~9 starbase, assuming max size, time 2 population each. Which is close to 18 tile planet research/unity penalty which is pretty deep for a tall empire. Not so much for wide.

For that reason alone. I am not supporting this.
If starbase keep 18 pops, habitats are obsolated.

In my wishlist, Starbase could jump between systems, so we will have Space Nomad style, and Space Genghis Khan :).
The Starbase somehow can count as a super carrier unit, and even we dont have Space Nomad, we can still have a Starbase work like Hiigaran Mother ship for One system challenge, or atleast, Vasari Orkulus Starbase which not only hold the line but can also carry offensive role.
 
oh, one question why do I always have more Energy and Food than Minerals.
Presumably because you have been building farms and energy plants instead of mines. The relative rate of production is down to your choices; nobody is forcing you to make a set amount.

and Food doesn't seems to reduce.
it's like, it's worthless to have so much food in the system.
why put the Food Resource in the First place, if it isn't that important
Food keeps organic pops alive, but food production rate also increases organic pop growth speed, so for organic races it's always at least somewhat useful. If you are a machine empire, of course, you don't need food and can just build other things on those "food" tiles.
 
If starbase keep 18 pops, habitats are obsolated.

In my wishlist, Starbase could jump between systems, so we will have Space Nomad style, and Space Genghis Khan :).
The Starbase somehow can count as a super carrier unit, and even we dont have Space Nomad, we can still have a Starbase work like Hiigaran Mother ship for One system challenge, or atleast, Vasari Orkulus Starbase which not only hold the line but can also carry offensive role.

You misunderstood.

A SINGLE starbase with 2 population is equal to 3% more cost to unity/research. With 9 of those you are looking at 36% cost increase across the board. That is for citizen species.

It is safe to assume those starbase population will not produce anything meaningful at two population to make up for that.
 
You misunderstood.

A SINGLE starbase with 2 population is equal to 3% more cost to unity/research. With 9 of those you are looking at 36% cost increase across the board. That is for citizen species.

It is safe to assume those starbase population will not produce anything meaningful at two population to make up for that.

3%? Where did you get that number? Wouldn't it be 2%?

Unless they added on the base 10% per starbase as if they were planets, pops on starbases would be as efficient as extra pops on blank tiles on planets. The 36% is additive so if you have 9 starbases and (say) 20 planets of size 15+ you're adding 18% to 600% or more. So it's really a 3% increase.