Jon Shafer leaves

[caedussl]

Nah, IV is the culmination of the civ series when it comes to depthness and gameplay possibilities. You may like more civ V and that's okay, but if you were one of the people who bought it at launch I can tell you it wasn't due to rejection of change that it was disliked, it was disliked due to being a fucking mess. I don't think anyone dislike change for the concept, but due to the mechanics that were implemented before were more on their taste. I for example think that the direction stellaris is taking is very promising, while others hate it. The contrary would be with Hoi4 , that I believe is inferior to both DH and Hoi3, while others love it.

I definitely bought it at launch. I don't remember the mass reaction, but I definitely didn't think it was a mess. It had way less features than IV which was a bit of a disappointment, but I liked V at launch better than I liked VI at launch, despite VI carrying over most of the core features from V.

 

[Susanna]

IV at launch was a far cry from IV after Warlords, and, particularly, Beyond the Sword. (Didn't play Civ V at release.)

 

[the343danny]

I definitely bought it at launch. I don't remember the mass reaction, but I definitely didn't think it was a mess. It had way less features than IV which was a bit of a disappointment, but I liked V at launch better than I liked VI at launch, despite VI carrying over most of the core features from V.

Lack of features is understandable, but I was most upset by Shafer's approach to player/AI interactions. Shafer made it so the AI didn't treat the player like another AI and removed interactions because some players abused them. He removed tech trading, map trading, vassalage, and what relations (thousands of years of cooperation) you had was designed to be all washed away once the AI thinks the player is nearing victory.

I'm always a bit of a roleplayer in these kind of games (including PD games) and I'm guessing I'm not a minority in that regard here. I enjoyed having buddies and watching the world and its story unfold, with maybe some giant world wars in between and other happenings. I preferred to sit and watch while my beefed up vassals did my fighting. Civ 5 and Civ 6 wiped that sort of play out and it was a deliberate design choice, as per Shafer himself in pre release interviews. Imagine what EU4 would be like if every game ended in a dogpile or a WC; tedious and repetitive at best for most players.

 

[Astax]

IV at launch was a far cry from IV after Warlords, and, particularly, Beyond the Sword. (Didn't play Civ V at release.)

Yes, but 4 at launch was still good. I have some fond memories of OP chopping 16 hammer charriots in MP and steam rolling newbs (who would let me play Egypt? MADNESS!).

I love bashing Shafer as much as the next guy, but he did make the Final Frontier mod for Civ IV which I liked... though it felt unfinished, still decent piece of work and served as basis for many other space mods there-after. So I'll give him that much credit. And I won't say that Lead anything is an easy job, especially not for a project this big. With so much money on the like if you miss sales expectations by .1% they might let you go, so there is really no room for error and I don't know if he had the experience going from intern on Civ IV to leading Civ V, maybe he bit off more then he could chew? It's just hubbris.

I always remembered looking at him with a lot of envy, he was there doing things I wanted to do but could not. But it all looks so green from the outside, you never know the drudgery of it. I Hope he gets a smaller project where he could really let his skills shine through. I really wish him well.

 

[Susanna]

Yes, 4 at launch was indeed a good game. I will certainly agree there.

 

[heliostellar]

Considering how much he had dumbed-down once great franchises (see Civ 5), I say good riddance. He can take his filthy casual ideas elsewhere.

 

[TinyWiking]

Jon has indeed sadly left us. He was a great guy and one heck of a ping pong player (I bet you didn't know that!). That is all we will say about this situation and I'll be locking the thread. If you want to speculate about why this came to be feel free to do so outside of the forum as we feel that such a conversation doesn't have a place here. Also, please refrain from personal insults, the forum rules apply despite him no longer being with us.