• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

HOI4 Dev Diary - Acclimatization and Special Forces

Hi everyone and welcome to another dev diary where we show off stuff as we work on Waking the Tiger. Today we are going to be talking about a feature I’ve been wanting for a long time - troop acclimatization.


Acclimatization
We have long wanted to simulate the problems associated with shifting troops to new fronts with more extreme weather they are not used to. We currently have two types: Cold Acclimatization and Heat Acclimatization. It is not possible to be acclimatized to both at the same time, so if you take troops from the desert and put them down in the Russian winter, they will need to “work off” their heat acclimatization first before they start getting accustomed to the cold. When a division is sufficiently acclimatized, it will change its look, as you can see below. On the left are troops in winter with no acclimatization and on the right is what they will look when acclimatized.
Screenshot_1.jpg

And an example from Africa:
hoi4_4.jpg


For most countries, we do this by switching the uniform on the 3D model to use more appropriate textures. In some cases, like where people only had tropic uniforms with short pants and the like, we replaced their uniforms to be more winter appropriate (suggestions by the art department to simply color their knees blue were sadly rejected). The new textures come with the DLC, but the core mechanic is free as part of 1.5 Cornflakes. You can see your acclimatization status as part of the unit list and its effects:
Screenshot_2.jpg



With full acclimatization you will reduce extreme weather penalties by about half. We will also be increasing the impact of harsh weather a bit to compensate for being able to avoid it now.

There are a few things that will help you gain acclimatization also. If your commander has the Adaptable trait or Winter Expert it will speed things up. There are also technologies that influence the acclimatization speed (more on that later).
upload_2017-12-6_14-41-16.png



Special forces
Up till now, we have had a bit of a balance issue with Special Forces (Marines, Mountaineers, Paratroopers). They were, pound for pound, better than regular infantry and many people simply replaced all their infantry with mountaineers.

To make sure special forces stay special, we added a restriction based on your whole army:
Screenshot_3.jpg


To ensure that you always know how many special forces you can field, the division designer and deployment will help you keep track:

Screenshot_4.jpg


Along with this change in how Special Forces work, we wanted to make them stand out a bit more. Six new infantry technologies have been added to improve these elite troops.

Special forces are trained and equipped for conditions that ordinary soldiers aren’t expected to excel in. The first tech will give them a boost to acclimatization speed. Afterwards, the tree splits. One option is to train your special forces harder, to improve their skills and their ability to fight for longer before having to be resupplied. The other option is to expand the special forces training programs to accept more recruits. Your special forces will be more numerous, but come with more drag and not quite as high speed. In the end though, they will still be elite forces and will be able to develop training to make them even more skilled in fighting in the harshest of conditions.

Screenshot_5.jpg


See you all next week when we return to take a look at the Chinese warlords.

Also, don’t miss out on World War Wednesday today at 16:00 CET as normal. Me and Daniel will continue our fight against communism (or the British fleet… we are still arguing about that) as Germany under the rule of the Kaiser.
 
@Axe99 If PDS was differing the cap based upon national capabilities, historical deployments, and game balance I would tend to agree with you. According a dev response they haven't done anything yet but a flat cap (but may decide differently sometime in the future) and if you want to change that there are unknown research tech you can learn to improve the cap some unknown amount.

At this point too much is unknown but what was posted didn't sound good to me. And there are always mods.
 
I will bet you money that it has. Improved ENOUGH, however, is another story.

Your brave i'll give you that ;). I hope your right, but I had to stop my English campaign due too hundreds of USA troops and British Raj following my offensive fronts. I lost more men to attrition than enemy action :(, add that to the acclimatization well it could be a disaster. I'd be happier with this if the AI could handle it's own fronts and having allies. I hope they prove me wrong.
 
I've been learning from the Great War series that Germany created the Alpenkorps without any special training. They were suppose to learn on the job, at the front line, on the mountain.
Nonono, mountaineers are superhumans and only the creme de la creme of your soldiers can attempt to become mountaineers or marines.
Your brave i'll give you that ;). I hope your right, but I had to stop my English campaign due too hundreds of USA troops and British Raj following my offensive fronts. I lost more men to attrition than enemy action :(, add that to the acclimatization well it could be a disaster. I'd be happier with this if the AI could handle it's own fronts and having allies. I hope they prove me wrong.
You don’t lose men to attrition.
 
@fabius @Axe99 @billcorr @JerkyJerry

I do not dispute that from a realism standpoint tacking an arbitrary cap (and a flat 5% across the board for every nation IS arbitrary) on SF forces makes some sense.

My questions are these;

Is this realism for realism's sake? Saying it is for balance doesn't track because SP games are supposed to be about Sand Box and MP games regulate balance on their own.

If PDS wanted to tackle deployed force "realism", why not do something to reduce the historically implausible number of divisions nations, especially minor nations, can deploy. I haven't seen a huge hue and cry about there being too many Mountain troops, but I sure have seen people complaining about (insert minor country here) with 50 divisions.

Is this about game balance? Because I am not seeing complaints from SP players saying they are ruining their own games by fielding too many SF forces. And MP games regulate their own balance.

Just my own humble opinion based upon the info given, if I don't like how this finally shakes out I will mod it away.

To be honest I had no idea that there was any type of balance issue, amount issue, template issue etc. with special forces. I'm on this forum every day and I can't recall a single post about how special forces are the reason or even part of a balance issue. I had no idea there was a SP balance issue. Did you? Did anyone?
Never read a post about it before. Like you said Meglok, if there is a balance issue with special forces, is that not the player's own doing? If in MP, write another rule? In SP stop building them?
I don't know, having never read a single disparaging thing about Special Forces I had no idea they were in such dire need of fixing.
Did someone from PDX state it was a balancing issue or is that the assumption of forumites?
 
To be honest I had no idea that there was any type of balance issue, amount issue, template issue etc. with special forces. I'm on this forum every day and I can't recall a single post about how special forces are the reason or even part of a balance issue. I had no idea there was a SP balance issue. Did you? Did anyone?
Never read a post about it before. Like you said Meglok, if there is a balance issue with special forces, is that not the player's own doing? If in MP, write another rule? In SP stop building them?
I don't know, having never read a single disparaging thing about Special Forces I had no idea they were in such dire need of fixing.
Did someone from PDX state it was a balancing issue or is that the assumption of forumites?
Exactly this. The cap is bad enough, the devs spending time on this over fixing other more important things is worse. This is easily the worst DD so far.
 
Isn't the obvious solution to fix the ministers, then?
I was thinking more on the lines of winter clothing (supplies/materials) and summer clothing (supplies/materials).
 
Yeah, and it's always weirded me out. Maybe normal "not enough supplies" attrition shouldn't cause manpower losses except in extreme cases, but "very hot" and "very cold" attrition absolutely should.
That would be even more for the AI to keep track of and understand. Not sure the immersion is worth it in this case.
 
Exactly this. The cap is bad enough, the devs spending time on this over fixing other more important things is worse. This is easily the worst DD so far.
One of the things I hate about caps are; once they are used it becomes easier and easier to use them in the future. Remember a few months ago when PDX announced that Russia would no longer be allowed to build mechanized any longer? (Axe please tell me my memory is right on this). Another form of a cap.

I'm 100% under the belief that it is the player and not PDX that should determine how many or few of something/anything there should be. The cap (if there is to be one) should be determined by the player. Or in a multi-player game by the players/rules.
 
Last edited:
For me, I'd think the issue wouldn't be whether there was a cap or not (as I think some kind of cap makes sense - 200 mountain divisions being used as INF would seem a tad implausible, in terms of availability of quality manpower) -
Axe, who would know?
If you, who play only SP did not tell anyone you were using 200 mountain divisions.... how would we know?
If you played only MP would you just not write a rule?

Why should there be a cap enforced by PDX? I use a self-imposed cap, or not. You will never know! ;)
 
Last edited:
You don’t lose men to attrition.
Yeah, and it's always weirded me out. Maybe normal "not enough supplies" attrition shouldn't cause manpower losses except in extreme cases, but "very hot" and "very cold" attrition absolutely should.

Right. It boils down to semantics.

Ah, semantics. My most favorist and the most famousist part of gaming.
:D

se·man·tics
səˈman(t)iks/

noun
  1. the branch of linguistics and logic concerned with meaning.
In HoI4, the designers use certain words that might not mean what they think they mean.

For example, the game uses the word "attrition", which in the game means "equipment loss" (why not use the phrase "equipment loss"?)

There are other examples of words (and symbols and graphics) not quite conveying the information that they are tasked to convey.

Why is this important?

In the case of HoI4, a large portion of the customers are from English speaking nations.

upload_2017-12-10_5-20-38.png
Credit to SteamSpy and its creator Sergey Galyonkin for the above statistics.

One of the considerations about English language semantics in HoI4 is that "we have exactly one content designer who is a native speaker"
I'd love to have a professional editor on staff, though, since right now it is something the content designers do for each other (and we have exactly one content designer who is a native speaker).

But when you look at the big picture, there is a lot to be admired about HoI4 and the design team.
Kudos to Paradox for designing and publishing a game for an international market. They've done great work. I can't imagine what it takes to make a product that is used all over the world. All those languages, cultures, laws, and semantics enthusiasts to deal with. ;)

Well done, Paradox!
 
Last edited:
One of the considerations about English language semantics in HoI4 is that "we have exactly one content designer who is a native speaker"
And apparently not one that is fond of WWII USA? :(:(:( I can understand not being too fond of modern day USA (I live here and I'm not proud of us now either) but back then? Come on, we were the bee's knees!
Thanks so much for the post Bill! This confirms exactly what I thought. The good ole USA is more than 25% of sales and 0% dev love. Equal to sales as the next three countries combined yet USA zero updates/improvements. England, Germany and now China all received updates/improvements long before the #1 game purchaser.
I'm going to be praying for a great big USA update after Corn Flakes. Fingers crossed.
 
And apparently not one that is fond of WWII USA? :(:(:( I can understand not being too fond of modern day USA (I live here and I'm not proud of us now either) but back then? Come on, we were the bee's knees!
Thanks so much for the post Bill! This confirms exactly what I thought. The good ole USA is more than 25% of sales and 0% dev love. Equal to sales as the next three countries combined yet USA zero updates/improvements. England, Germany and now China all received updates/improvements long before the #1 game purchaser.
I'm going to be praying for a great big USA update after Corn Flakes. Fingers crossed.
Just to define: what kind of content you expect to see for USA?
 
In HoI4, the designers use certain words that might not mean what they think they mean.
From my interactions with the devs over they years I'm positive they understand the meaning of the words that they use. Some are better at English than I am, considering I only speak Southern redneck I think that some "playahs" do not understand or agree with the way that the devs implement their code to represent the terms being employed. :)

Remember, everything about HOI is an abstraction representing real-world events.

Meanwhile according to Miriam-Webster:

Definition of attrition
1
[Middle English attricioun, from Medieval Latin, attrition-, attritio, from Latin]
: sorrow for one's sins that arises from a motive other than that of the love of God
2 : the act of rubbing together : friction; also : the act of wearing or grinding down by friction
  • Stones can be smoothed and polished by attrition.
3 : the act of weakening or exhausting by constant harassment, abuse, or attack
  • a war of attrition
4 : a reduction in numbers usually as a result of resignation, retirement, or death
  • a company with a high rate of attrition

So obviously they are employing definition #1 for HOI4, no? :D
 
Just to define: what kind of content you expect to see for USA?
I’m addressing the focus tree for the most part.

Red, white, black plans etc. all require other nations to fill some type of prerequisite. “Be in an offensive war” among other things. And at the very end a time and a date. I like exactly this for my historical games, only.
I would like America to have some options to choose different paths that depend solely on what the American player decides to do. "What other leaders of other nations do shall have no significance over what America decides to do." And doing so as a Democracy.

I want to add this not remove what is already in game. I want the option to go down a very historical path just as we have now. I just want to add the Ahistorical options. And I want those options to be American only.

Having Bhutan or some other insignificant war nation switch ideologies may feel fine. May even be historically correct? However, to have the leaders of the free world having to go Fascist or Communist to conquer is just, wrong. It is just historically wrong. It feels wrong as an American. We may conquer but we sure as hell ain't gonna do it being commy or nazi's! Having those two being the only options is just not proper. I feel a person playing America should be able to travel down a purely American path. On that American path is democracy only and all prerequisites are strictly internal. It should not matter what other leaders of other nations do because well, when has it ever? :cool:
 
Last edited:
So how would I accomplish it?

By developing some new focus tree paths.


Becoming the world’s police department
Cutting trade to Italy over Ethiopia
The moral high ground
“We are the chosen ones” Speech
Might is always right! The war machine begins to churn
Saving China
Saving Poland
Saving etc.

Congress of Conquest
Congress strips President of all military powers
"If Germany marches on her neighbors so shall we"
The Congressional Land Grab Act
The birth of the American Hemisphere

The M/R pact is rock solid
The M/R pact remains in tact
"If you declare on one you declare on both" the headlines read
The British Colonies stand with America
America to fight Communism and Fascism simultaneously!

American politicians wined and dined by their new Japanese friends
Many American politicians become very pro Japanese
American war machine secretly sells ships to Japan despite embargo
Congress turns a blind eye to reports
Report Dated 12/6/1941: Due to American companies breaking laws Japan’s navy is largest most modern in world
Japan blockades the Philippines
America draws line in the Pacific


I’m just pulling chit out of thin air. But you get the idea. I just feel that America was a large enough contributor to the war to warrant some new paths to take. I think due to her standing in the world she should be able to conquer as a Democracy. I feel it is historically correct (not always the best mind you) that often in her history American politicians/military may not have taken the advice of other leaders. I don't think I'm too far off from a somewhat plausible history type paths.