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HoI 4 Dev Diary - Border Wars: The Last Warlord

Hello from the frozen wasteland wrapped in eternal darkness that is Sweden in December!


In the base game, the Chinese Warlords lead a rather silly existence. They exist at game start, work was clearly done to make them playable (at least as playable as any country with a generic focus tree), and when the war with Japan starts and things could get interesting - they are swallowed up by Nationalist China.


That means there is little use for the Nationalist player to really interact with them, since they are going to be absorbed anyway when the war starts. This made the Nationalists' situation quite a bit easier than it was historically. So in order to really represent the problems the Nationalists faced, we had to make the Warlords a bit more dynamic - and while doing that, we also made them a bit more interesting to play.


It’ll still be possible for the Nationalist player to unite the country and take over the warlords - it will just take effort and resources that the Nationalist player may or may not be able to spare.

warlords_tree.JPG


We still knew that the Warlords tree would be a bit of a sideshow, so we decided that all 5 warlords (Shanxi, Xibei San Ma, Sinkiang, Yunnan, Guanxi Clique) would get the same focus tree, and that it would be somewhat smaller than what we would do for a normal country (instead of a splinter region).

However, we also wanted the player to be able to make a difference and not be stuck with the rather small and restricted warlords focus tree forever. The core idea behind the focus tree is therefore to give the warlords a way to win the struggle for supremacy in China, take over national leadership, and ultimately gain access to the full Nationalist or Communist Focus Trees. This turns them into more fully-fledged contenders in the Chinese Civil War.

Capture_warlord_leader.JPG


To do this, you have three basic options: you cooperate with the Nationalists, side with the Communists, or you strike out on your own (with an option to approach Japan later).

If you decide to ally with the Nationalists (as most warlords are scripted to do in historical mode), you get to build up your realm a little and fix some of the problems in the administration. Once your powerbase is secure, you can decide to join the political struggle and make a play for the leadership of China in the political sphere.

Capture_warlords_political_struggle.JPG


This uses the same mechanics we have outlined in the Dev Diary about Communist China, and if a political power struggle between Nationalists and Communists is already ongoing, a warlord will simply join into the struggle. If you win the struggle, and claim national leadership, your focus tree will then switch to the Nationalist Chinese focus tree.

Capture_warlords_takeover.JPG


Siding with the Communists starts out very similar, but the end game is different: instead of joining the political struggle directly, you appeal to the bigger Communist: Stalin. Getting the support of the Soviet Union won’t come cheap, though, and there is no guarantee that whoever leads the Communist party of China is willing to just accept you taking over. Should you succeed, you will be able to annex Communist China, giving you their troops as well as their focus tree. But beware: Stalin will come to collect his due.

Capture_warlord_stalin.JPG


Lastly, the option to strike out on your own is clearly the most difficult of all, making an enemy out of both sides - but it offers you the chance to claim China as your own, without having to make compromises. While you can try to make a deal with the Japanese, there is no guarantee that they will accept, and in any event you would only be trading one overlord for another. This approach also blocks off any chance of joining the political struggle inside China, meaning that you will have to fight for it.


However, since facing the nationalist armies in the field may be a bit too much despite all their many weaknesses, we have decided to expand on Border Wars a bit, giving independent-minded warlords a way to expand some territory while keeping the risk manageable.


Border conflicts start with someone staging an incident between two states (yes... they have to border each other). This costs some PP and fires an event notifying them that they need to position troops or risk losing control of the state.

hoi4_2.png


After a bit of time has passed, whoever staged the incident gets a decision to escalate the situation further. If this decision is left alone for too long the incident is forgotten and nothing more happens.

hoi4_4.png


To escalate the incident to a border conflict the instigator needs to place troops on the border and select the decision. Divisions from the two states start fighting in a limited form of combat with special rules such as terrain giving less bonus, lower combat width and so on. The country that first initiated the incident is considered the attacker.

hoi4_2 (1).png


The fighting will continue for a good amount of time, and if no one has emerged victorious by the time it runs out the conflict is considered to be a stalemate. This awards both sides with a bit of army experience and the defender with some PP for having successfully defended the territory. This is sort of a soft loss for the attacker, but does not come at a major cost other than the PP wasted on initiating the entire incident.


If the attacker wins the conflict, they seize control of the state and are awarded PP for their success. If the defender wins they gain a lot of PP, army experience and research bonus to land doctrine. All of the outcome effects are scriptable and there is a good chance we will add, tweak, or change them after more play testing.

hoi4_8.png


Both attacker and defender can choose to escalate the conflict further at the cost of addition PP. Doing so gives a combat bonus, allow more troops to join the fighting and pushes the conflict to the brink of all out war. Both sides can back down at this point, but this results in losing the border conflict. It might however be worth taking a loss over an all-out war you cannot hope to win.

If any of the sides chooses to escalate the conflict further, the other side will be notified and not long after, war breaks out.

Next week is going to be a Christmas special with some cool stuff for modders.

Due to an important company-wide conference that is not in any way connected to the release of a new movie from a well-known sci-fi franchise, the stream will be at 14:00 CET today. Tune in at https://www.twitch.tv/paradoxinteractive and watch the Kaiser restore order in Germany!
 
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We are keeping it asia only for now. I can see us maybe using it elsewhere in the future though.
Could be a good way to model the Franco-Thai War, maybe?
 
Huh, does this new border conflict system imply some changes to the soviet takeover of eastern Poland as well? Seems like a rather nice fit to pass.
 
Could be a good way to model the Franco-Thai War, maybe?

I kind of thought that we were going to get French Indochina as a country on this expansion, but I guess there was too much on the devs' plates. I learned quite a bit about the protectorate while resesrching and workng on a mod back on HoI3 and found it very interesting. USA was keeping a really close eye at all the developments on south-east Asia and at one point the pressure on French Indochina could have meant an earlier war between Japan and USA.

Maybe on a later date we'll get the country with it's very own focus tree and what-ifs implemented and on that day I would expect to get some sort of Franco-Thai War modelled nto the game.
 
Looks great, but i have some concerns with majors ahistorical national focuses. Though alternate focus paths is sort of fun to play as a player but the other NF focuses is basicly adapted to the historical outcome of the majors. This leads to some weird things, say german goes Monarchist then may minor nations that has gone fascist with unique trees sort of gets broken. To late to change now but there are many ways that you could go alternate for a major without going to weird. I would think it would be better if the majors more or less where bound to their current regime, in other words Germany more or less bound to fascist regime. Uk Democratic, Soviet Unions communist. A ww2 game with a non communist USSR would be kind of boring. What if both Germany and Soviet goes democratic.

This leads to may weird playouts, with more nations gets unique NFs and with the options of creating their own alliances that overrides the current alliance by a NF. Ofcourse some things could be managed by just more detail an precondition to some alliances and NFs but its a major task that to big to handle. It would probably be easier to have the major NF evolve around historical regime and then expand the alternate NF within their historical regime.

Seams that HOI IV more or less to go in the direction of either a railroaded historical game or a crazy unhistorical games with Luxemburg being the leader of the Allies in against a fascist russia together with democratic germany. Where USA then declares war against a democratic Germany. Communist Japan is in a Alliance with fascist Australia and South Africa creates the Axis due to it having no members in the Axis. The middleground between a historical and this crazy weird unhistorical is in my mind the most fun.

Lite right now, weird things happen due to the NFs, like russia being defeated and democratic or non align and in the allies but still declares war against Iraq, Iran and Afganistan.
 
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There is a new effect that loads a focus tree, which is fired from the old tree.
Sooo... Technically now we can "switch" to different trees without creating a state for that?

Like, for example, we have Soviet Union and in some way create Russia, which is still state with SOV tag, but special non-communist focus tree. Or we anyway will need to have state tag with focus tree?
 
Sooo... Technically now we can "switch" to different trees without creating a state for that?

Like, for example, we have Soviet Union and in some way create Russia, which is still state with SOV tag, but special non-communist focus tree. Or we anyway will need to have state tag with focus tree?

You can absolutely switch to a Russian focus tree as SOV (hell, you can switch to the Ausstralian one as SOV - we had a bug a few weeks ago where Japan would end up with China's focus tree because someone made a booboo), and I suspect that we will end up using it for such things. Our focus trees are getting pretty big, so this could help making them somewhat easier to navigate.
 
Great update! Do Border Wars count as actual wars in the sense that outside parties can support either side with lend lease? Or does it have to a "full war" for that to be possible?
 
You can absolutely switch to a Russian focus tree as SOV (hell, you can switch to the Ausstralian one as SOV - we had a bug a few weeks ago where Japan would end up with China's focus tree because someone made a booboo), and I suspect that we will end up using it for such things. Our focus trees are getting pretty big, so this could help making them somewhat easier to navigate.
With regards to the switching, will some of the focuses on the new tree start as filled in, if they correspond to focuses that were on the old tree and were completed?
 
Not sure, it should be used in that case: there was mostly no resistance.
That would probably still be the case, seeing as the decision could appear only after the Polish were at a certain surrender progress, so most of their troops would be busy with the germans.
But what I really see here is that this is an intermediate state between war and peace, which could very well be taken advantage of in the soviet-polish situation.
That would be a nice way to involve actual troops in the invasion, instead of having the land just be given for free and with no effort whatsoever to the USSR.
 
Well I am loving this new border conflict mechanics.

Also, LI ZONGREN GREATEST WARLORD. Is fact.
 
Works the airplanes attached to armies with the garrison order or just frontlines? Would be fantastic if I could attach some fighters to my garrison army or armies to get a easy to manage bombingdefence, waterd out but evenly distributed.
 
Do we get the warlords themselves as generals if we integrate them as Nationalist China?

And if we play a warlord and integrate one of the Chinas, do we get their generals?