Hello everyone and welcome to another Stellaris development diary. Today's dev diary is about new interface functionalities for navies in the 2.0 'Cherryh' update that we collectively call the Fleet Manager. Please note that the interfaces shown in this dev diary are early WIP versions that have not yet seen an artist's touch, and will look very different in the finished product, meaning that feedback on their look/layout is pointless at this stage. Thank you!

Fleet Manager
The fleet manager is a new interface accessible from the top bar, that as the name implies, allows you to overview and manage your navies. The fleet manager lists all fleets in your empire, filtering away small splinters that are in the process of being merged into another fleet. Each fleet has something we call a Fleet Template, which is a stored configuration of what that fleet *should* look like. Fleet Templates keep track of not just ship sizes (such as corvette or cruiser) but also of individual designs, so a Fleet Template might be set up to contain 10 Torpedo and 5 Interceptor-class corvettes alongside a mix of Picket and Gunboat style Destroyers, for example. Templates can be edited directly through the Fleet Manager without needing to build ships, by for example deciding to add another 5 Interceptor-class corvettes to the above listed fleet. Templates can be created directly without making a fleet first, and then reinforced to create the actual fleet. We are also planning to add template duplication and copy/paste functionality in order to be able to quickly set up a new fleet or make your fleets conform to a desired standard.

Whenever a fleet is missing ships that are listed in its Template, the option exists to Reinforce that fleet, which can be done either from the Fleet Manager or directly from the fleet view itself. Issuing a reinforce command will start production of as many missing ships as you can afford at your current amount of minerals, which will be automatically distributed among appropriately placed shipyards and sent to join and merge with the fleet once finished. In addition to the ability to reinforce fleets individually, there is also a Reinforce All button, which will attempt to reinforce missing ships in all fleets up to the amount you can afford with your current level of minerals, and can be used to fully replenish your navy in a single click if you have enough resources on hand. The Fleet Manager also offers the option to Retrofit ship designs. Let's take the example of the mixed Interceptor and Torpedo-class fleet above, where you have 10 Torpedo and 10 Interceptor-class ships. If you decide that you no longer need the Interceptors, you can use Retrofit to easily switch one class to another, selectively upgrading the Interceptor-class ships into Torpedo-class ships.

Home Bases
Also being introduced along with the Fleet Manager is the concept of Home Bases. Each fleet will be able to have a Home Base set, with any friendly upgraded Starbase being valid as a Home Base. This is where the fleet will return when the Return Home order is issued, gets slight priority for actions such as reinforcing (though the focus is on distributing production sensibly rather than always using the home base), and is intended to tie into other fleet mechanics planned for Cherryh that we are not quite ready to talk about yet.

That's all for today! Next week we'll be continuing to talk about Cherryh, on the topic of armies. See you then!

 

[CocoCincinnati]

I just though of another question. Many times during war, I have needed to split my fleet(s) for some reason. For example keeping a planet bombarded while a smaller fleet hunts down mining stations or things of that nature. True, this usually comes after the big major fleet battle to decide the war has occurred so who knows how all these changes will affect how that works. However, IF I'm ever faced with the need to split a fleet for multiple objectives, can I simply split it in half or split out just a few screens for raiding.....and will I have to make a new template for each, or will each half just have the same template as the whole did? And can I easily recombine them later?

 

[Heretic Saint]

My point was that, as cool as it would be to have fleets with more personality, one would have to reconcile that unless arbitrarily restricted, it's more effective to build a larger fleet, and by extension, personality for individual ships is lost.

Limitations to military size do not have to be arbitrary. For one, they already exist in Stellaris (Naval Capacity), so it could be just a question of tweaking numbers. Nothing would get lost if the game would give you smaller caps -- it does not affect actual gameplay; bigger fleets still win, you'd just remove a digit so that your 100 ships become 10, and your enemy's 90 become 9, whilst making individual ships more memorable (something the game arguably already tries to do, given the individual names). So these things do not have to be mutually exclusive.

This being said, it would also be possible to design an entire new element of gameplay around such limitations by, for example, implementing a Logistics feature like it exists in another Paradox game based on the same engine: Hearts of Iron IV. Here, your army size is indirectly capped by the amount of supplies you manage to provide them with. It would not be a stretch for Stellaris to use starbases as a source for supplies, thus making Naval Capacity a local/regional value instead of empire-wide -- more realistic, more strategy, and a possible solution against the doomstack issue.

Maybe that's what Wiz was hinting at when he mentioned starbases serving another purpose as home ports?

However, IF I'm ever faced with the need to split a fleet for multiple objectives, can I simply split it in half or split out just a few screens for raiding.....and will I have to make a new template for each, or will each half just have the same template as the whole did? And can I easily recombine them later?

Phew. Now I kinda wish Fleet Templates would have support for squadrons/flotillas you could split off and re-integrate at any time at a click of a button. Maybe even with flotilla commanders serving under the leading admiral! Like field marshals in HoI4's newest DLC commanding other generals, who in turn command the individual divisions.

 

[Gomine]

[QUOTE="Heretic Saint, post: 23619507, member: 1086824]

Phew. Now I kinda wish Fleet Templates would have support for squadrons/flotillas you could split off and re-integrate at any time at a click of a button. Maybe even with flotilla commanders serving under the leading admiral! Like field marshals in HoI4's newest DLC commanding other generals, who in turn command the individual divisions.[/QUOTE]
that might not be a good idea due to how ever leader needs 100-25 influence then add three fleets (the intended amount was said by Wiz) plus sub commanders on top of that unless leader change I don't see it happening
edit: sorry for the quote failure doing this on mobile is a bit clunky

 

[Kayttajatili]

This raises a question for me: Will there be admirals who excel with specific ship- or weapon types, a bit like how there are Generals in HOI who can for example be really good with tanks? Also if different sized ships had different times it took them to enter FTL (with fleets following the pace of the slowest in the fleet, obviously) this could make seperate corvette raiding groups viable.

 

[mysticdueler]

Will there be a solution to being stuck in enemy territory after a war and not being able to get out in a war because there are no nearby wormhole stations. I have lost several fleets this way.

Yes, though you may not like it: they removed the starting wormhole FTL.

But, hey, at least you won’t lose any more fleets that way!

 

[Seb_Jean]

Yes, though you may not like it: they removed the starting wormhole FTL.

But, hey, at least you won’t lose any more fleets that way!

There's always a positive side to everything

 

[Belasias]

Limitations to military size do not have to be arbitrary. For one, they already exist in Stellaris (Naval Capacity), so it could be just a question of tweaking numbers. Nothing would get lost if the game would give you smaller caps -- it does not affect actual gameplay; bigger fleets still win, you'd just remove a digit so that your 100 ships become 10, and your enemy's 90 become 9, whilst making individual ships more memorable (something the game arguably already tries to do, given the individual names). So these things do not have to be mutually exclusive.

This being said, it would also be possible to design an entire new element of gameplay around such limitations by, for example, implementing a Logistics feature like it exists in another Paradox game based on the same engine: Hearts of Iron IV. Here, your army size is indirectly capped by the amount of supplies you manage to provide them with. It would not be a stretch for Stellaris to use starbases as a source for supplies, thus making Naval Capacity a local/regional value instead of empire-wide -- more realistic, more strategy, and a possible solution against the doomstack issue.

Maybe that's what Wiz was hinting at when he mentioned starbases serving another purpose as home ports?

I think I mentioned it before, but I like the idea that ships gain a greater presence and personality by limiting naval capacity. As Heretic Saint indicates, this change does not affect the gameplay at all (nor would it correct the Doomstack problem), but I suppose it would help improve the performance problems that some players seem to suffer by limiting the number of ships on the screen.

Possibly a controversial idea, surely many other players enjoy hundreds of ships on the screen fighting in an impressive space battle.

---

One of the points that I mentioned in the Stellaris Dev Diary # 96: Doomstacks and Ship Design was just the one to modify the naval capacity, so that instead of a global one it is out marked by the number of Starbases. Each Starbase could have a maximum number of fleets assigned to them (such as Home Base) which could be increased by improving Starbase or adding new modules to it.

Anyway I do not think this is the idea followed at this time by the development team, I remember seeing an image where the old cap for fleet is still kept next to a new cap for Starbases.

 

[Heretic Saint]

that might not be a good idea due to how ever leader needs 100-25 influence then add three fleets (the intended amount was said by Wiz) plus sub commanders on top of that unless leader change I don't see it happening

That's true, but this could be resolved just by tweaking some numbers, i.e. making Admirals a little cheaper. Even better could of course be a system where Admirals also come with a rank-based limit to how many ships they can command without a penalty to their bonuses -- it could enable a tiered system where the Navy Leader pool lets you pick from cheap Captains and Commodores in addition to more expensive Admirals.

• Rank 1: Commander, can command fleet size up to Size 4 (e.g. 4 corvettes, 2 destroyers, or 1 cruiser)
• Rank 2: Captain, can command fleet size up to Size 6 (e.g. 3 destroyers, or 1 cruiser and 2 corvettes)
• Rank 3: Line Captain, can command fleet size up to Size 8 (e.g. 1 battleship, or 2 cruisers)
• Rank 4: Commodore, can command fleet size up to Size 12
• Rank 5: Rear Admiral, can command fleet size up to Size 16
• Rank 6: Vice Admiral, can command fleet size up to Size 24
• Rank 7: Admiral, can command fleet size up to Size 40
• Rank 8: Fleet Admiral, can command fleet size up to Size 60
• Rank 9: High Admiral, can command fleet size up to Size 80
• Rank 10: Grand Admiral, can command fleet size up to Size 100

Although this kind of brings me back to an earlier idea about the game giving you "default" Leaders for free, and only the act of replacing them with handpicked candidates to cost Influence. With default Leaders of course starting out with a lower skill, and potentially being less loyal (tie-in for future corruption and espionage mechanics). Kind of off-topic, but it never quite sat right with me how the game makes it look as if any fleet or army would not have a commanding officer, or that there are apparently worlds and sectors without a governor.

 

[PalmettoExplorer14]

Oh I'm both nervous and intrigued of what next week's dev diary on armies will be about!

 

[Princess Stabbity]

Hopefully it involves some sort of "army designer" to make applying attachments less fiddly. With UI designed by a sane person n_~

Making attachments, generals and high tier armies in any way meaningful would be a lovely change too n_n

 

[BlackUmbrellas]

Hopefully it involves some sort of "army designer" to make applying attachments less fiddly. With UI designed by a sane person n_~

Making attachments, generals and high tier armies in any way meaningful would be a lovely change too n_n

Ground warfare needs a wider-reaching overhaul, and Wiz has talked about how if he's going to do anything with ground warfare he'll be doing something big.

 

[Ikael]

Nice QoL improvement. I am however, more intrigued by the teased new space warfare features (logistics? tripulations?) and of course the next developer's diary. A massive ground warfare rework might end up being our anticipated Christmas present!

 

[fourworlds]

Wow, I can't wait for this update now! This feature sounds AMAZING!!

 

[Tilarium]

That's true, but this could be resolved just by tweaking some numbers, i.e. making Admirals a little cheaper. Even better could of course be a system where Admirals also come with a rank-based limit to how many ships they can command without a penalty to their bonuses -- it could enable a tiered system where the Navy Leader pool lets you pick from cheap Captains and Commodores in addition to more expensive Admirals.

• Rank 1: Commander, can command fleet size up to Size 4 (e.g. 4 corvettes, 2 destroyers, or 1 cruiser)
• Rank 2: Captain, can command fleet size up to Size 6 (e.g. 3 destroyers, or 1 cruiser and 2 corvettes)
• Rank 3: Line Captain, can command fleet size up to Size 8 (e.g. 1 battleship, or 2 cruisers)
• Rank 4: Commodore, can command fleet size up to Size 12
• Rank 5: Rear Admiral, can command fleet size up to Size 16
• Rank 6: Vice Admiral, can command fleet size up to Size 24
• Rank 7: Admiral, can command fleet size up to Size 40
• Rank 8: Fleet Admiral, can command fleet size up to Size 60
• Rank 9: High Admiral, can command fleet size up to Size 80
• Rank 10: Grand Admiral, can command fleet size up to Size 100

Although this kind of brings me back to an earlier idea about the game giving you "default" Leaders for free, and only the act of replacing them with handpicked candidates to cost Influence. With default Leaders of course starting out with a lower skill, and potentially being less loyal (tie-in for future corruption and espionage mechanics). Kind of off-topic, but it never quite sat right with me how the game makes it look as if any fleet or army would not have a commanding officer, or that there are apparently worlds and sectors without a governor.

The way I see your idea here working is your pool can have naval leaders (term Admiral doesn't work anymore) of ranks 1-4. You hire the ones you like and watch them progress up the ranks as they get promoted to a new rank. I'm also picturing an option to manually promote the naval leader at the cost of influence. This could be a really cool feature, even something that can be rolled into ground leaders as well with the higher ranked leaders being able to lead more then a single army unit. Not sure how what next weeks DD will include with it's theme of army, so maybe they've added in a feature to combine ground units into armies like fleets can be. And the ability to name armies. That would be nice.......

 

[Tilarium]

Hopefully it involves some sort of "army designer" to make applying attachments less fiddly. With UI designed by a sane person n_~

Making attachments, generals and high tier armies in any way meaningful would be a lovely change too n_n

And renaming units. Seriously. Let us rename them!

 

[SelorKiith]

That's actually the first thing about the update that I really like

 

[3istee]

First off, I like this update and all of its changes thus far.
Kudos to Paradox for having the confidence to overhaul major systems like these.

Some UX-related suggestions I have:

• Reinforcing
  • During ship-production, show what fleet the ship is supposed to reinforce
    • Possibly even when it's on its way to the fleet?
  • Cancelling
    • Could be done via a button in the fleet manager
      
    • When cancelling a single, reinforcing ship-production, there could be three options
      1. Cancel production of just that ship
      2. Cancel production of all ships reinforcing the army
      3. Ask if the user wants the first or latter (with a "always do this"-checkbox)
    • Should probably be part of the options and whatnot
• It'd be nice if you could colour-code fleets, like armies in HoI4
  • Ships in production could also have the fleet's colours
  • Banners would be cool, but I'm not sure what priority coolness has for you guys.

Just some thoughts I had, though I'm no UX designer or anything the like

Cheers

 

[Silent.Night]

Ground warfare needs a wider-reaching overhaul, and Wiz has talked about how if he's going to do anything with ground warfare he'll be doing something big.

But is there already enough going on with 2.0 in that we can reasonably expect a ground battles overhaul? The fact they're doing a dev diary on them is promising though.

Even better could of course be a system where Admirals also come with a rank-based limit to how many ships they can command without a penalty to their bonuses

I am completely for the expansion of admirals as important characters, but it's just not practical or realistic to have them influence fleet sizes. If we were to use the ranks you suggested, it would be far better to have them operate within a command structure, where squadrons/fleets have their own officers that operate under a central command. Both would have combat modifiers, representing hq's ability to strategise, and the local officers' abilities to carry out the general orders and manage the situation tactically. This would also be very cool in terms of flavour.

 

[Ursul]

Does this mean that the game will consider two different class of -say- corvette as two distinct class when we it the "upgrade to most recent" button?

 

[yavorh55]

Apologies if this was already asked, but what will be the "weight" to which ship is chosen to be reinforced.

For example, I have a fleet with 2 of each class of ship - 2 BB, 2Cru, 2Des, 2Corv
I lose half of them - one of each. Let's say they each cost 2k, 1k, .5k, .1k minerals, but I only have ... let's say 1.2k - will I be able to reinforce or will I need to wait until i have enough cash. And if I reinforce do I know WHICH ships will be reinforced? A cruiser and 2 corvettes, two destroyers, 12 corvettes etc?

On that light, if the system automatically chooses the ships to reinforce, will we be able to also manually choose how many and what ships to reinforce (like if I have 3 fleets and I want to split my scarce minerals to reinforce just the Vetts in each). I'm not sure if that's what that button with the two arrows means there, hope it does.