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EU4 - Development Diary -22nd of May 2018

Good day all! Today the team is all back and hard at work following an exhausting yet wonderful PDXCon. Thanks to everyone out there who contributed to its success by your presence. With our upcoming expansion now announced we return to talk in detail about the features and changes coming in Dharma.

Today we turn our attention to the much-teased Estates. To set the context for our changes I'm first going to outline the logic that lead our infinite wisdom to make these changes. Estates were introduced as a feature in The Cossacks DLC and while they were intended to be an interesting mechanic aimed to deepening the internal politics of your realm, they fell short in a number of ways. There were very few types of Estates, leading to a lack of immersion when you were dealing with the same groups when playing as either France or Bengal. Additionally, they ended up posing as a nuisance in many areas of the game. Their land demands would often feel a burden and a chore for a player, especially after finishing up a hard-won war. We also found that their disasters ticking up at 80% felt rather counter-intuitive. 79% was absolutely safe but 81% is danger zone? Additionally, with the feature being a paid part of The Cossacks, we were in a tricky situation with what to do with it.

As of the 1.26 Update, Estates shall be a free feature. This means that regardless if you own every expansion and immersion pack or if you have the base game and nothing more, you will have your estates in your nation, free to interact with, assign land to, reap rewards from and/or gain disfavour with and face internal strife. Coupled with this are some quality of life changes for Estates: No longer shall they demand a minimum amount of territory from your nation, leaving you free to choose if you want to indulge your various interest groups for their powerful support or shun them and forego the risks of them seizing power for themselves. Additionally, the aforementioned risk of disaster striking from overly powerful estates shall tick up when their influence is at 100% rather than the previous 80%

We are also free to further work upon the Estates system, which leads me nicely to the New Estates for India.

Indian nations will now have access to brand new Estates for the different Castes in the subcontinent. The following are available to nations in the subcontinent and largely replace the existing Estate types (merchant guilds, Clergy, Nobility) and are exclusive for owners of Dharma.

eu4_461.png


Marathas
While originally a term applied to all Marathi-speaking peoples, the Marathas have defined themselves as a caste of warriors. The Marathas are found both in their native home of Maharashtra and beyond, seeking opportunities for distinguished military service.

Available to all nations in the Indian Tech Group of culture group Dravidian, Western Aryan but not Rajput or Malvi culture.
Depending on influence and loyalty, locally, Marathas impact on religious conversion chance while globally they impact on cavalry combat ability and army tradition

Interactions:
  • Recruit Advisor
    • Commandant, Half Price, Hindu Faith, Marathi Culture, Gives 15% Influence
    • Requires 40% Influence
  • Recruit from the Marathi
    • Give Manpower that increases with influence, costs 15 loyalty
    • Requires 30 loyalty, 40 influence
  • Benign Neglect of Marathi
    • Give loyalty and influence, increase autonomy in assigned provinces.
      • Give 25% manpower modifier in provinces
    • Requires 40 influence
  • Demand MIL Support
    • Gives Military power based on influence, costs 20 loyalty
    • Requires 30 Loyalty and 25 Influence
  • Promote Maratha Nobility
    • Gives 10 Influence and 15 Loyalty
Brahmins
The Brahmins are the priestly caste of Hinduism. They are the keepers of ceremonies and scriptures, as few non-Brahmins are educated in Sanskrit literature. They command great respect from Hindus and non-Hindus alike, and sometimes take roles in government.

Available to all Hindu and Muslim nations in the Indian Tech Group.
Depending on influence and loyalty, locally Brahmins affect unrest and institution spread, while globally they affect stability cost, devotion and tax.

Interactions:

  • Demand ADM Support
    • Gives Administrative power based on influence, costs 20 loyalty
    • Requires 30 Loyalty and 25 Influence
  • Seek Support of Brahmins
    • Gives 15 loyalty, 10 influence for 5 prestige and 5 legitimacy
  • Switch Hindu Deity (Hindu only)
    • Let you switch your hindu deity before your ruler dies.
    • Requires 40 loyalty, 40 influence
  • Seek Legitimacy (Muslim only)
    • Increase tolerance of heathens and religious unity for influence
    • Requires 40 Loyalty, 20 influence
  • Recruit Theologian
    • Gain Half price Theologian Advisor, Hindu faith for 15 Influence
    • Requires 40 Influence
  • Make Generous Donation
    • Pay money to gain 15 loyalty


Vaishyas
In Vedic scripture, the Vaishya caste are laborers and agriculturalists of relatively low status. They have since branched out into more lucrative professions; merchants, craftsmen, men of money, they are the lifeblood of Indian commerce.

Available to all nations in the Indian Tech Group Hindu nations.
Depending on influence and loyalty, locally Vaishyas impact on development cost and trade value, while globally they affect production efficiency and advisor cost

Interactions:

  • Demand DIP support
    • Gives Diplomatic power based on influence, costs 20 loyalty
    • Requires 30 Loyalty and 25 Influence
  • Recruit Minter
    • Give Hindu Master of Mint, Half Price for 15 Influence
    • Requires 40 Influence
  • Draft Ships For War
    • Gives Heavy Ships for 15 loyalty
    • Requires 30 loyalty, 40 influence
  • Limited War Support
    • Trigger War Taxes for 15 influence
    • Cooldown of 20 years, requires 30 loyalty
  • Ask for Contributions
    • Gain money for 10 loyalty
    • Needs 30 Loyalty

Rajput
The Rajputs are an ancient caste of honorable warriors and proud nobles. While the rugged land of Rajasthan is the heart of their power, Rajput nobility can be found throughout northern India and many great Rajas claim Rajput descent.

Available to all nations in the Indian Tech Group of culture group Hindustani, Eastern Aryan, Central Indian and Rajasthani or Malvi culture.
Depending on influence and loyalty, locally Rajputs affect manpower and defensiveness while globally they impact on manpower regain and fort maintenance costs.

Interactions:

  • Spawn Rajput Regiments
    • Capped by amount of provinces given to Rajput
      • Have -25% Drill Decay, 5% Discipline modifier
      • Can’t have more regiments of Rajput than you have provinces assigned to them
    • Costs 15 Loyalty and 5 Influence
    • Requires 50 loyalty and 40 influence
  • Recruit Rajput General
    • Should spawn a General with +1 Fire base for 20 Influence
      • Takes Rajput name from the Rajasthani culture
    • Requires 30 Loyalty, 40 Influence
  • Promote Purbias
    • Apply Rajput Regiment Only Modifier
      • Give 10% Land Fire Damage, 5% Discipline
    • Costs money and gives Autonomy to provinces
  • Exempt Officers from Jaziya (muslim only)
    • Increase Loyalty by 15 for money
    • Requires 20 Influence
  • Promote Rajput Nobility
    • Give 15 Loyalty and 10 Influence for 5 Prestige
  • Demand MIL Support
    • Gives Military power based on influence, costs 20 loyalty
    • Requires 30 Loyalty and 25 Influence
Jain Community
Jainism is no longer a dominant or politically favored faith in India, but the Jains are far from irrelevant. They have found a niche in moneylending and bureaucracy that makes them an asset to any state that offers them patronage.

Available to all nations in the Indian Tech Group of Hindu faith or replaces the Burgher Estate for Indian Muslims.
Depending on influence and loyalty, locally the Jains affect state maintenance, manpower and tax, while globally they impact on interest rates, construction costs and construction speed.

Interactions:

  • Loan Interaction
    • Create a Jain earmarked loan that has reduced -0.5/-1.0 interest depending on influence. It will remain at that fixed interest until paid off regardless of the nation's interest rate.
    • +10 influence
  • Patronize Jain Families
    • Increase loyalty with 15 and influence with 10.
    • Cost 5 prestige
  • Commission Jain Scripture
    • Increase 15 Loyalty, costs money
    • Requires 30 Influence
  • Build Jain Temple (once per 20 years)
    • Get 10% development cost and one extra base tax in random Jain assigned province
    • Gives +15 Influence
    • Requires 40 Influence
  • Investigate Corruption
    • Lose 2 Corruption, gives 10 Influence
    • Needs 60 Influence, 40 Loyalty
  • Demand DIP support (If Muslim)
    • Gives Diplomatic power based on influence, costs 20 loyalty
    • Requires 30 Loyalty and 25 Influence
Quite the impact for the subcontinent, but where does that leave owners of The Cossacks? Cossack owners will still exclusively have access to the titular Cossack estate type, as well as the Dhimmis and Tribes. We have also decided that The Cossacks owners will, with the 1.26 Update, also get the new feature to Play as breakaway Cossack Nations.

eu4_459.png


When the Cossacks disaster is triggered, you will have the option to play as said Cossack nation. You will be given the unique Power Structure reform Sich Rada granting tremendous cavalry bonuses, while having access to your own Government Interactions:

  • Adm: Receive Fleeing Serfs
    • Get Random development in a province of a culture/religion that is repressed by another nation.
      • Repressed culture means it is not primary or accepted.
      • Repressed religion means it is not the religion of that nation.
  • DIP: Organize Raiding Parties
    • +1 Hostile Attrition
    • +10% Movement Speed
  • Mil: Raise Cossack Host
    • Spawn Cossack units like the Cossack Estate interaction.
eu4_460.png


To recap

  • The Estates System is now free to all players as of the 1.26 update
  • Dharma Owners will gain access to the new Indian Caste estates
  • Owners of The Cossacks will have access to the Tribes, Dhimmi and Cossack estate types, while also gaining the new Breakaway Cossack Government to play as.

That's quite the lot for today, hopefully it makes up for the scandalously late dev diary courtesy of the exciting yet exhausting weekend of PDXCon2018. Next week, hmm, how about we take a look at how we're furthering our content for the Mission Trees introduced in Rule Britannia? Sounds great, see you then!
 
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I already purchased the DLC that had the estate mechanic as an exclusive content when it was released (I think it was Common Sense or Cossacks, not certain) and I don't have a problem with this change. For someone like me personally, it is pretty affordable although I can certainly understand the unhappiness that people have been having with the DLC model where they literally spent hundred of dollars on them altogether (probably what I spent in total overall, too). Either way, if this is what Paradox have to do in order to improve the estates mechanic, all powers to them on that.

At any rate, the old saying is that you can't please everyone. :')

This was my point. If that is what it taks to have the estates integrated in the game, by all means, go ahead devs As they say "we must count our blessings".

I think we should campaign now not for free indian estates but for a real estates rework now that they are free to make them a core part of the game, well integrated with the rest of the features, making them feel more dynamic and alive and putting up real challenges not only based on random maluses as a result of random events and such.
 
At any rate, the old saying is that you can't please everyone. :')


The people who arent pleased doesnt use the forums, since the forums and reddit downvotes everything that remotely says something bad to paradox, or any small changes or ideas that feels negative, even good ones.

As for me, its been 2 years(?) since cossacks is released, taking the key point of cossacks and turning it free doesnt bother me that much, its the new mechanic(cossack government and making cossacks a tag you can play) isnt good enough to replace what is estates. Though estates arent that nice of a mechanic at release anyways.

As you can see, so far most or every person in this thread that have bothered commenting is positive towards (making estates free).
 
So why did I even buy the Cossack dlc? The main feature is now free and the compensation feels like a joke. Why did I recommend my friend to buy the dlc?
At this point I feel like paradox has run out of ideas and resells already sold features. Thank you for making me look like a fool in front of my friends which trusted me with my advise on which dlc to purchase. They would have been better off investing their money in another dlc or company...
 
Very nice. I think it's a good idea to make estates free for all. :) I'm a little concerned about them not requiring a minimum amount of territory. Now you can basically ignore them. But it was indeed annoying to assing terretory to them after every conquest.
We will see, how this works out. I guess you have further plans for them, so I'm looking forward to it. :)
 
What will happen to catholicism’s 15% desire of cleric land? It will be gone I guess. I call that a win because I turned protestant just to remove that additional 5% land desire for clergy.
 
ZAZ will have a form of government as at Cossacks in case of his release or during his existence in the history?
And whether it will be possible to create Cossacks through the custom countries?
I second this question. In addition is it possible that Zaporizhias Ideas be overhauled with this opportunity to make them more viable?

In addition, will there be any events for the Cossack government type and if so will some of the events for Republics that don't really make sense for a Cossack nation be removed? ("The Trial" comes to mind)
 
Excellent DD, the best since like forever, the HypeTrain is right on track, thanks Jake, Groogy and all the others on the EUIV team.
 
Cossacks dlc should certainly be discounted if not free as the main feature is now in the base game. I bought it on release so I’ve got my moneys worth out of it , if I had bought it today I might be annoyed I’d say 4.99 is ok . $20 is crazy
 
Cossacks dlc should certainly be discounted if not free as the main feature is now in the base game. I bought it on release so I’ve got my moneys worth out of it , if I had bought it today I might be annoyed I’d say 4.99 is ok . $20 is crazy
If $20 turns out to be crazy, it will show in a dip in the sales of the DLC. Since most people buy old DLCs during massive off sales (like during this last weekend, which was a 75% off weekend, despite someone's complaint upthread), the cost difference is essentially negligible. So I doubt it will matter much.
 
As for estates, what I expect will happen is that the boni available will be significant enough that it will be worth assigning provinces to estates. But that comes at a heavier price if you later revoke that promise; as @Groogy pointed out upthread, the hit to loyalty will be harder, and last longer.

I'm not sure there IS a way to "properly" balance estates. I do think that the intent of the re-work is to truly re-work them, so that they aren't some sort of persistent disaster-in-waiting that you otherwise simply ignore unless/until your timer for desired interaction is up (for example, farming MPs from them). I shall await seeing exactly what boni/mali come with them now before I pronounce judgment.
 
I don't mind estates moving to vanilla EU4, but it ought to have been the very first DD. I get that you slowly reveal changes, but people actually have bought Cossacks and now they lose the main thing. You could at least say it earlier.
You assume that they had made that call back then. Might have been pending (those pesky financial peeps in the company...).
 
It's not the event in itself, it is the losing development that makes people hate it so much. There's a lot of psychology involved in that and think it is called loss aversion? That's why I decided to put a 10% tax malus instead of actively removing. It's similar to the big outcry against the loss of experience on your character in one of the D&D revisions.
Not loss aversion again, look all this Pseudopsychology got to go, not everything can be handled with bonuses. There needs to be risks, there need to be setbacks, or all the excitement goes away.

And perhaps you should make it so that it removes development if your total development is more than a certain amount. So it does not screw you over totally when you are weak but still can cause a meaningful impact when you are strong.
After all cossacks would be more likely to raid wealthy realms wouldn't they?
 
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@DDRJake @Groogy Really liking the changes coming with Dharma so far looks like it is going to be a great, and much needed, DLC. I do have a question though regarding the new estate mechanics, specifically about not needing to give provinces to forego the risk of the estates seizing power and this interaction with certain estate events. I've seen events where " 'province name' falls under the control of 'estate' " and similar events like this where a province switches from one estate or another, I believe. How will these events be affected if I choose to not give any provinces to estates? Will these events have new firing conditions?
 
As for estates, what I expect will happen is that the boni available will be significant enough that it will be worth assigning provinces to estates. But that comes at a heavier price if you later revoke that promise; as @Groogy pointed out upthread, the hit to loyalty will be harder, and last longer.

I'm not sure there IS a way to "properly" balance estates. I do think that the intent of the re-work is to truly re-work them, so that they aren't some sort of persistent disaster-in-waiting that you otherwise simply ignore unless/until your timer for desired interaction is up (for example, farming MPs from them). I shall await seeing exactly what boni/mali come with them now before I pronounce judgment.

I think that as it is the bonuses arent bigger. The three basic estates havent been mention so its safe to assume there havent been any changes. Influence for insteractions should be higher so you are forced to give land to your estates to reap the benefits. More so since the disaster threshold has gone up fron 80 to 100. It'd be nice if @Groogy could confirm it and if not, give a thought to introduce such tweaks.

Cossacks dlc should certainly be discounted if not free as the main feature is now in the base game. I bought it on release so I’ve got my moneys worth out of it , if I had bought it today I might be annoyed I’d say 4.99 is ok . $20 is crazy
It was already discounted. 10 euros. Anywa, doesnt steam give a time so you can give it back and get your money? There are many things in the dlc other than estates though. Diplomacy and such. Not worth 20, true. But no DLC is worth 20€ in my opinion.

I don't mind estates moving to vanilla EU4, but it ought to have been the very first DD. I get that you slowly reveal changes, but people actually have bought Cossacks and now they lose the main thing. You could at least say it earlier.

Well, they basically said it since Friday. And from the first dev diaries you could see that they were becoming free.