CK2 Dev Diary #87 - Killing Spree

[Nero1333]

I got a question will Holy Fury rework the Pagan Satanists cults to not just be reskins of Lucifer's Own, or at the very least make it so Hel isn't the focus of that version of the cult and make Loki it instead

 

[Keizaal]

I got a question will Holy Fury rework the Pagan Satanists cults to not just be reskins of Lucifer's Own, or at the very least make it so Hel isn't the focus of that version of the cult and make Loki it instead

Loki was a trickster god, not a god of the underworld like his daughter Hel, so I'd say that it won't change. It would be silly for a death cult to worship a trickster.
But what I do see possible is that there might be some other society that focuses on Loki, since I remember reading from a previous dev diary (don't remember which one though) that reformed pagans are going to have new societies. Kinda like how Christians have their various monastic societies.
Though I can't say would the Loki cult be a secret one, since worshiping Loki was seen as unmanly in the viking era.

 

[Nero1333]

Loki was a trickster god, not a god of the underworld like his daughter Hel, so I'd say that it won't change. It would be silly for a death cult to worship a trickster.
But what I do see possible is that there might be some other society that focuses on Loki, since I remember reading from a previous dev diary (don't remember which one though) that reformed pagans are going to have new societies. Kinda like how Christians have their various monastic societies.
Though I can't say would the Loki cult be a secret one, since worshiping Loki was seen as unmanly in the viking era.

it just kinda erks me that they put Hel on the same level as Satan is all

 

[knppel]

While I do like this feature, I have to ask:
The kill list of your typical Genghis Khan only shows people burned at the stake, dear devs, did you at least spot this issue with "Hunt Apostates" as default court chaplain action here finally?

 

[Rognvaldr19]

I'm still waiting on a feature to investigate suspicious deaths.

Yeah, we need detective-knights on the case who swab for DNA and question witnesses!

Seriously though, how successful do you think investigating murder was back then?

 

[Woifee]

Yeah, we need detective-knights on the case who swab for DNA and question witnesses!

Seriously though, how successful do you think investigating murder was back then?

CSI:MedievalCourt

Yeaaaaahi

 

[daysauce]

Can we rework executions a bit? Always so odd to see a taoist being burnt at stake by his buddhist liege for apostasy.

 

[Rockphed]

it just kinda irks me that they put Hel on the same level as Satan is all

Yes, it is rather unfortunate that they put a Goddess of Death on the same level as a fallen angel.

 

[Orphalesion]

At first I was thinking "Well since I don't go too much into the assassination game I will hardly use this feature :-( " but then I was considering how quickly those Great Blots will add up...
And then I was wondering...with the new Reformation mechanic....will Reformed Germanic necessarily have blood sacrifices or will it require that "Bloodthirsty Gods" doctrine for that?

 

[Rajiin]

Yeah, we need detective-knights on the case who swab for DNA and question witnesses!

Seriously though, how successful do you think investigating murder was back then?

Ayup, because every lord that lost their child under suspicious circumstances was just "Oh yeah, that's fine.. Wonder what I'll have for tea, hope no one gets the blood of my other children in my dinner." Investigations happened and whether or not they caught the right person they might name a name. I mean... Medieval spies were a damn thing.

 

[MR. Sovietman]

For some reason, characters with a Reformed Pagan religion using the Bloodthirsty Gods doctrine tend to top the lists... more on that in the next Dev Diary!

was that the entire point of this dev diary? to hype up us, for the next dev diary?

 

[Woifee]

At first I was thinking "Well since I don't go too much into the assassination game I will hardly use this feature :-( " but then I was considering how quickly those Great Blots will add up...
And then I was wondering...with the new Reformation mechanic....will Reformed Germanic necessarily have blood sacrifices or will it require that "Bloodthirsty Gods" doctrine for that?

Since unreformed germanic pagans already have blot I doubt you need some special doctrine for that. But maybe there is one to get rid of blots.

Edit: typo

 

[Woifee]

Ayup, because every lord that lost their child under suspicious circumstances was just "Oh yeah, that's fine.. Wonder what I'll have for tea, hope no one gets the blood of my other children in my dinner." Investigations happened and whether or not they caught the right person they might name a name. I mean... Medieval spies were a damn thing.

Would be a nice series of events for players who are spymaster. Liege asks you to find murderer. Ask arround. Get information. In the end you decide who is to blame. If you were part of the plot you might lead the investigations to an innocent character

Might be fun.

 

[knppel]

Before you all throw in CSI jokes, you should think about what usually gets murderers busted- someone always talks.

And think about it in game terms- it's not about evidently proving at a court with a lawyer and dna analysis that someone did something, it's about convincing your vassals he did it so you can arrest and behead them without incuring a tyranny modifier.

For some reason, characters with a Reformed Pagan religion using the Bloodthirsty Gods doctrine tend to top the lists...

My five bucks are on intrigue focus

 

[Doomherald]

I like this little feature. It really adds to the history and immersion of the game. Stuff like this should be expanded upon and be part of the Chronicle.

 

[Orphalesion]

I like this little feature. It really adds to the history and immersion of the game. Stuff like this should be expanded upon and be part of the Chronicle.

I agree, any sort of record keeping is good in Crusader Kings. During less active times in the game I like to look at all the stuff my previous generations have done, or what people in other parts of the world are up to.

Since unreformed germanic pagans already have blot I doubt you need some special doctrine for that. But maybe there is one to get rid of blots.

Edit: typo

But you are basically designing a new Religion out of the pagan belief systems, the way I understand it (and I could be completely wrong, we'll hopefully see next DD) the new Reformed Pagan Religion would start out without special features and you would pick the special features you want when reforming it, so if you didn't pick "Bloodthirsty Gods" there might be no Great Blot anymore. Instead you might pick "Patron Deities" and get access to the mechanic from the Defensive Pagans, only with the Norse gods instead.
In story it would be as simple as the reformer/prophet of the new religion telling people that the old ones had it all wrong about the Aesir wanting any human sacrifice. Comapre it with Christianity not adopting circumcision, or the taboo on pork form its parent religion, Judaism.

 

[AlexArgos]

Hmmm

View attachment 380273

I spy with my little eye, either a Byzantine emperor who converted to Islam, or a Muslim emperor that converted to Greek.

There are several Greek names in that list. Even the 1st one that is a Maharaja!

 

[Woifee]

I agree, any sort of record keeping is good in Crusader Kings. During less active times in the game I like to look at all the stuff my previous generations have done, or what people in other parts of the world are up to.



But you are basically designing a new Religion out of the pagan belief systems, the way I understand it (and I could be completely wrong, we'll hopefully see next DD) the new Reformed Pagan Religion would start out without special features and you would pick the special features you want when reforming it, so if you didn't pick "Bloodthirsty Gods" there might be no Great Blot anymore. Instead you might pick "Patron Deities" and get access to the mechanic from the Defensive Pagans, only with the Norse gods instead.
In story it would be as simple as the reformer/prophet of the new religion telling people that the old ones had it all wrong about the Aesir wanting any human sacrifice. Comapre it with Christianity not adopting circumcision, or the taboo on pork form its parent religion, Judaism.

I agree, any sort of record keeping is good in Crusader Kings. During less active times in the game I like to look at all the stuff my previous generations have done, or what people in other parts of the world are up to.



But you are basically designing a new Religion out of the pagan belief systems, the way I understand it (and I could be completely wrong, we'll hopefully see next DD) the new Reformed Pagan Religion would start out without special features and you would pick the special features you want when reforming it, so if you didn't pick "Bloodthirsty Gods" there might be no Great Blot anymore. Instead you might pick "Patron Deities" and get access to the mechanic from the Defensive Pagans, only with the Norse gods instead.
In story it would be as simple as the reformer/prophet of the new religion telling people that the old ones had it all wrong about the Aesir wanting any human sacrifice. Comapre it with Christianity not adopting circumcision, or the taboo on pork form its parent religion, Judaism.

True. Vlbut it would suck if I could make every pagan faith the same. Different origins solhould lead to different outcomes. At least a few decicions and practices should be different. West African pagans are not slavic pagans.

 

[Orphalesion]

True. Vlbut it would suck if I could make every pagan faith the same. Different origins solhould lead to different outcomes. At least a few decicions and practices should be different. West African pagans are not slavic pagans.

Assuming we even get as much freedom as I'm currently speculating (which isn't proven yet, gotta remind myself not too get too excited too early) I think the AI, if it reforms a faith should definitely stick to a version of the faith that's close/identical to the current one, like an archetype.
But for the player I absolutely think that there should be a lot of freedom. Maybe not everything for everyone (doesn't make sense for Zunists to hold a "Great Blot") but defenitely a lot of options.
Maybe certain doctrine could be free/less expensive for certain Pagan faiths (maybe Bloodthirsty Gods could be free/less expensive for Aztecs and Norse, for example)
Nothing wrong with options, imho, then it's up to the player to make sure they create something unique and interesting for themselves.

Though what would be interesting to know is if we could even reform a polytheist pagan faith into a Monotheist one. A lot of pagan belief systems had at least some henotheist or even monotheist tendencies at some point.

 

[classicist]

Seriously though, how successful do you think investigating murder was back then?

Torture could have done the trick in a surprising amount of cases...