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Dev Diary #91 - Altering the Alps and Idealizing Italy

Hello there! I hope everyone’s summer is going well, and that you are as excited for this week’s Dev Diary as I am to write it!


As I mentioned last time, this week we are going to take a look at the area around the Alps, as well as take a look at Italy. For our first preview, we will take a look at the western Alps, around the Kingdom of Burgundy, southern Germany and northern Italy.


Keep in mind that not all the changes are finalized, so there might be more updates before everything goes live. All the pictures will be taken from 1066 and with De Jure map modes, so things might look somewhat different in other bookmarks.

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So the first change we will be talking about is the changes to the County of Burgundy. We have cut it up, and made it into its own Duchy (of Franche Comté). The old Duchy of Upper Burgundy has lost its headway into the Swiss heartlands as well, moving the county of Schwyz (old Grisons), Zurichgau (old Schwyz) and Thurgau (old St. Gallen) into the new Duchy of Upper Swabia. In the later starting date, they will be part of the Duchy of Switzerland instead of Upper Swabia, a change that can happen throughout a game as well.

The county of Vaud has been added to the game, to the old Duchy of Upper Burgundy, cut out of certain parts of Geneva and Neuchatel. The final noticeable change on this side of the Alps, is that we have added Aosta to the mountains between Savoy and Italy.

For that part of the Alps, we wanted to make smaller changes, cut up some of the larger provinces and fix a lot of the barony errors and some of the county errors (see Schwyz further up the text). It was important for us to try and fix a lot of these minor issues, as it felt weird seeing some areas so misplaced on the map.

On the other side of the Alps, we have cut up some of the larger provinces. Monferrato has been cut up to make room for Ivrea, Lombardy has been cut up to make room for Milano, Como and Leventina, and Genoa has been cut up to make room for Noli.

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We can start out in Italy, where we left off from the previous picture. Trent has been turned into its own minor Duchy, opening up Brenner Pass between Bozen and Innsbruck. Innsbruck and Tirol has moved a bit westwards, to make room for Pongau as part of the new Duchy of Salzburg. In Bavaria, we have added the county of Regensburg, as it was the capital of the Duchy for quite a while, and we wanted to see that reflected in the game. Passau has also been moved into the Duchy.

To the east, Austria has gotten quite the rework. We have added Traungau, Steyr Freistadt, Krems and Melk as Counties, moved Znojmo into Bohemia and Passau, as previously mentioned, into Bavaria, and Styria has been moved south into its own Duchy. The Duchy of Carinthia has been cut up into Carinthia and Carniola, and the Duchy of Friuli has been added around Aquileia.

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So for our last location, we have central Italy. I figure I will talk about the mountains first, as we have added parts of the Apennines throughout Italy. We’ve felt this has increased the tactical value of Italy somewhat, as the choices you make for movement and county conquering feels a bit more valuable, and we also felt it cut up the county more nicely, particularly considering the new Kingdom we added in central Italy (this will be discussed further down).

We have added Perugia into the Duchy of Spoleto, moving the whole Duchy a bit further north. Rimini has been added to the Duchy of Ancona, turned the two county Duchy into a three county one, to lessen the amount of chokepoints post-mountainfication.For the old county of Aprutium, we have turned it into the Duchy of Abruzzo and moved it into the Kingdom of Sicily. And we have taken parts of the old County of Firenze, and added the county of Arezzo, to make sure Firenze doesn’t stick its fingers into everyone else, as it has had a tendency to do.

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So for what I assume will be the most controversial change to the region, the two new Kingdoms added.

For Carinthia, it felt weird giving even more land to a Kingdom that is meant to reflect the historical Stem-Duchy of Bavaria, when we have the Principality of Carantania, the March of Carinthia and later on the Duchy of Carinthia as inspiration that could take the same role. We have made sure, as this is quite the small Kingdom with a lot of land held by the same person in some bookmarked starts, that the AI won’t create the Kingdom right away, so it should be more of a player goal than an AI goal.

And… For Romagna, we wanted to cut Italy into its more historical pieces, without adding a Kingdom called “the Papal States” that was only for an unplayable Theocracy. This was done for several reason: having the Pope try to seek out central Italy as he did throughout history, having the old East Roman areas be more difficult to hold onto for the Kingdom of Italy in the first bookmarks, and to lessen the massive size of the Kingdom of Italy.

So I hope the Dev Diary didn’t get too wordy this time around, and that people can learn to love the changes made to the region! Next time around, we will have a (probably smaller) Dev Diary about the changes made to Holy Orders in Holy Fury!

PS. For those of you with an interest in the Habsburg jaw and the Archduchy of Austria, we have something special for you as well! (A special decision to create the Archduchy.)

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I'm not sure it makes a lot of sense to make Franche-Comté a duchy. The very name of the area means "the Free County [of Burgundy]" (by opposition with the Duchy of Burgundy - the area was free of taxes for some time during the middle ages). I was called the "Comté de Bourgogne" before the 15th century (yes, the Duchy and the County of Bourgogne were separate for some time - it seems weird but it's essentially because Burgundy was the name of a big area).

I don't know what the best solution is, but I think it would be very weird to have a "Duchy of the Free County" on the map. The name "Franche-Comté" (and the derived adjective "comtois") only became a thing after CK2's timeline.
 
I really like the decision to split up Italy, helps the look and feel of the area a lot. Now if you could just jump over to Iberia and do the same thing to the kingdom of Andalusia that would be great.
 
Ooh, this looks VERY cool...so many of these states are ones I've tried to add to the base game only to really struggle because there just aren't enough provinces in vanilla for them...

Some thoughts, though;

*Would it be worth adding a Duchy of Montferrat in the middle of Susa and Milan? It's not an era that's immediately playable in the game, but during the 900s (IIRC), this part of Italy was divided into four Marches; the March of Turin/Susa (corresponding with Susa), the March of Ivrea (corresponding with Milan), and Western and Eastern Liguria (which at this point in time included east Genoa and Modena); the former evolved into the March of Montferrat, and the latter became the March of Genoa.
*Rather than Upper Swabia for a Duchy, why not Raetia/Churraetien? The name was in use during this area, and Upper Swabia feels odd without a Lower Swabia to go with it. I'd also suggest Switzerland be turned into a titular Kingdom that you can only form via event...
*If Transjurania is in the game, would it make sense to rename Dauphine to "Cisjurania" as well, and then have both names change via event later in the game?
*Shouldn't Pettau be part of Styria rather than Carniola? It does make Carniola quite small, admittedly, but then again, Karnten's also a tiny Duchy, and you'd think it'd be bigger considering it's the centre of this new Kingdom. Although you could also shift some of the provinces around to fix that; Krain to Karnten, Istria to Friuli, and Treviso to Verona?
*On the topic of the Kingdom of Carinthia, would it not be worth making Veronia and Styria part of the state at the very start so that the setup looks like this - https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/aa/Deutschland_um_das_Jahr_1000.svg - but then have it get smaller in the later start dates?
*Romagna looks fabulous - although I hope you're planning on changing that colour! - although shouldn't Spoleto be a bit bigger than that? I could have sworn that at its most notable the Duchy included most of Spoleto. You'd have to get rid of the mountains to adjust it, but you could also give Chieti to Benevento and...darnit, I can't see more of Naples, but in the edited version I did I ended up adding a single Duchy of Campania to the area; can't really say if it'd be worth juggling the setup...

In any case, I cannot wait until this is all playable...even if it means I have to remake my mods from scratch! :D
 
I’m really digging these map updates, this one in particular adds some very interesting stuff. For one thing it looks like Matilda runs should be much easier now considering forming Italy will require holding significantly less land. I’m also very intrigued by the creation of K_Romagna and to what extent the Papacy will try to control it. Overall very excited about the creation of all these new kingdoms and the opportunities that come with them.
 
A lot of amazing changes!

I can't read the name of the new Aosta county. Is it directly connected to Ivrea?
As you are reworking the area, what about splitting Vienne county in Dauphine?

Map changes are a wonderful game enhancement.
 
Very nice! I take it that with Romagna's addition it'll now take all four Italy-based kingdoms to form de jure Italia now? That does make things a bit more logical; last time I had to nab Burgundy to throw it into the mix.
 
I'm not sure it makes a lot of sense to make Franche-Comté a duchy. The very name of the area means "the Free County [of Burgundy]" (by opposition with the Duchy of Burgundy - the area was free of taxes for some time during the middle ages). I was called the "Comté de Bourgogne" before the 15th century (yes, the Duchy and the County of Bourgogne were separate for some time - it seems weird but it's essentially because Burgundy was the name of a big area).

I don't know what the best solution is, but I think it would be very weird to have a "Duchy of the Free County" on the map. The name "Franche-Comté" (and the derived adjective "comtois") only became a thing after CK2's timeline.
it can be a duchy, called a county, like Flanders
 
Very nice! I take it that with Romagna's addition it'll now take all four Italy-based kingdoms to form de jure Italia now? That does make things a bit more logical; last time I had to nab Burgundy to throw it into the mix.

Funny you should ask, I've actually changed it this morning. You need to hold 80% of the land, and if any of the three southern Kingdoms (Sicily, Naples and Trinacria) exists and isn't titular nor De Jure of the Empire of Italia, you need to hold those as well. In other words, in most bookmarks you would need to hold Sicily, and in the later start dates you would need to hold Naples and Trinacria. When you create the Empire, the three Kingdom titles, if you hold any of them, will be moved into the Empire as well.
 
About splitting big kingdoms into smaller - what about England? As you're splitting a lot of big/developed countries, England would stay a powerhorse.
 
With the changes to the Kingdoms that make up the dejue Empire of Italia, will Venice be affected at all?

I have been playing a lot of Venice in 769 starts lately, and I much prefer being part of the Byzantine Empire than Italia. I believe that Venice used to be de jure part of the Byzantine a while back. Are the Venetians moving empires?
 
With the changes to the Kingdoms that make up the dejue Empire of Italia, will Venice be affected at all?

I have been playing a lot of Venice in 769 starts lately, and I much prefer being part of the Byzantine Empire than Italia. I believe that Venice used to be de jure part of the Byzantine a while back. Are the Venetians moving empires?

They are not, as far as I have planned at least. As far as I know, the reason they were originally moved were because the Byzantines had a tendency to attack them early on, ripping apart the Merchant Republic and the player in the process.
 
They are not, as far as I have planned at least. As far as I know, the reason they were originally moved were because the Byzantines had a tendency to attack them early on, ripping apart the Merchant Republic and the player in the process.

Thanks for the quick response. I have only been playing CK2 since Feb 2018, so I didn't know the reason for the change.

The reason I ask is, in 769, I find it much safer to swear fealty to the Byzantine Empire as soon as I can, but now that he is not my de jure liege, I have to take a Croatia county first. Once I have pledged myself to the Emperor, I can avoid the recurring embargo wars that destroy all my trade posts while I am independent in that early bookmark.
 

I understand the need for Romagna if it's for Pope programming.

I don't understand the need, logic or reasons for making Carinthia it's own kingdom.

it felt weird giving even more land to a Kingdom that is meant to reflect the historical Stem-Duchy of Bavaria,

Is this really a good reason? Because it felt weird?

and to lessen the massive size of the Kingdom of Italy.

And I especially don't understand this constant crusade against larger kingdoms? This is just like Anatolia which used to be the grand big boy of the east until for some reason 5 counties had to be broken off into the kingdom of Trebizond, just to break up a big realm.

Why? There is in my opinion nothing inherently wrong with larger kingdoms. There is certainly nothing wrong with a few larger kingdoms it adds variety to the game. It is also not without a little extra challenge for a King rank to hold that extra land.

When there is purpose like with the new Thrace or the new Romagna I get it.

I don't get just breaking off small chunks into small chunk kingdoms just because they were historically a stem duchy, or just to cut down a big realm.

Is it really going to be more compelling when all the world is filled with de-jure kingdoms of this size?
 
Why? There is in my opinion nothing inherently wrong with larger kingdoms. There is certainly nothing wrong with a few larger kingdoms it adds variety to the game. It is also not without a little extra challenge for a King rank to hold that extra land.
Single large kingdoms are a lot more stable then some small ones - vassals in the de-jure kingdom which isn't your primary title have -20 opinion by "Desire title".
Stable big realms are bad.