Dev Diary #93 - Venetian Guile

[SilverSquid1810]

The Latin empire should be able to form the byzantine empire too. They didn't call themselves the Latin empire after all. They should have a decision after they have conquered all other Byzantine successors to become the Byzantine empire.

"Byzantine Empire" is not a historically accurate term either. They just called themselves "Rome."

Also, the Latins called themselves "Romania" historically. I prefer just calling them the Latin Empire.

 

[SilverSquid1810]

Can we still create Latin Empire title in old way?

What is the old way?

 

[Electricfox]

Childrens crusade? But this isn't Hearts of Iron 4?

 

[killerbee256]

What happens if the Byzantines are catholic, will the fourth crusader not be triggered?

 

[ChaosOnline]

And for who doesn't know and disagreed...

Throughout their history, the Byzantines self-identified as Romans Ῥωμαῖοι, Rhōmaîoi.
Their empire was called Βασιλεία Ῥωμαίων
Basileía Rhōmaíōna and Imperium Romanum!

Every other nation referred to them as Romans apart western latin church people who tried to steal the true Roman heritage by the eastern empire heirs. So a naming based on Byzantine is a medieval western biased naming that I think should be fixed.

Even the Arabs, continued to refer to the Byzantines as "Romans".

I don't see why people are disagreeing with you. This is a historical fact. Honestly, I'm kind of hoping that in CKIII, they just call them the Roman Empire from the start, instead of having to do a "reforming."

 

[ChaosOnline]

Cause their is no byzantine empire without Christianity, the orthodox faith was core to the Byzantine belief system, however Serbians and Bulgarians who both tried to the restore empire and were heavily romanized should be able to reform the empire in game.

+
That's true of pretty much every empire and every kingdom in the game. Almost all of them, from Arabia to Spain to Delhi, all saw their religion as central to their identity and legitimacy. Yet forming most Empires is not restricted by religion. You don't even have to be Christian to own them, you can convert to Islam and still control or usurp the Empire, you just can't form it.

Hell, as the Eastern Roman Empire, they weren't even always Christian. They have several Pagan rulers listed in their history files, after all.

 

[ChaosOnline]

Can reformed religions have their own "crusades"?

No, earlier dev diaries have confirmed that the new Crusade mechanics only apply to Catholics. Other religions are restricted to the old Great Holy War/Jihad mechanics.

 

[Snake_Squeezins]

This week's update = all killer no filler

 

[PedroLuiz]

I assume you know that the "historical" Children's Crusade is generally believed to have ended with all the children being sold into slavery? The details are pretty murky, though.

the script, i already thought it would end badly, i was talking about the art

 

[Ksiendzu]

What is the old way?

Requirements:
Catholic religion or Catholic heresy. Neither Byzantine Empire nor Roman Empire exists. Control Kaliopolis and Thrake.
https://ck2.paradoxwikis.com/Empires

 

[Rockphed]

What is meant by "Dynamic Crusader States" ? I mean I have seen all the dev diaries.. but I seem to not remember what this is... is it the possibility to decide whether you want the title for yourself or if you want it for your kinsman ?

Duchies either outside the target kingdom or owned by someone other than the target of the crusade will be turned into crusader states if they are completely occupied. There is probably an event that has to fire rather than it happening right away. I'm not sure if they happen at the end of the war or while the war is ongoing. It was in dev diary 80, I think.

I assume you know that the "historical" Children's Crusade is generally believed to have ended with all the children being sold into slavery? The details are pretty murky, though.

The traditional narrative ends with the children being sold into slavery, but it doesn't have historical basis. Modern historians believe that the two separate movements (one from France, one from Germany) ended when the "children" got to the Mediteranean coast. In both cases, many of the people died en route. The one they seem to be using, the one where the leader claimed the sea would part for them, ended when most of the people were granted citizenship in Genoa. The other ended when the people gave up in Marseilles.

 

[The Shacks]

"Byzantine Empire" is not a historically accurate term either. They just called themselves "Rome."

Also, the Latins called themselves "Romania" historically. I prefer just calling them the Latin Empire.

Eh I just call my Byzies the Eastern Rhomaioi Empire. Looks a bit better. Drop the Eastern if I retake enough of Italia.

 

[mrstevehazzard]

I don't see why people are disagreeing with you. This is a historical fact. Honestly, I'm kind of hoping that in CKIII, they just call them the Roman Empire from the start, instead of having to do a "reforming."

I always kind of assumed that the decision was more about outsider recognition. Westerners can call the Byzzies the Empire of the Greeks and proclaim the HRE the true successor to old Rome, but once said Greeks have taken back a lot of the old Roman lands, including Rome and Jerusalem, then they force the rest of Europe to acknowledge them as Romans.

 

[rus-chel]

Shepard's Crusade shoud definitely be aviable without failed crusade.
If Children Crusade triggers while supernatural is unrestricted and demon child exist, the leader of said crusader ABSOLUTELY must be demon child. So many possible events...
Shepard's Crusade leader with supernatural should with 2-5% chance become immortal or something of that sort.
And give germanic pagan second and third holy orders via decision if empire of britannia or/and scandinavia exist and ruled by norse

 

[ChaosOnline]

I always kind of assumed that the decision was more about outsider recognition. Westerners can call the Byzzies the Empire of the Greeks and proclaim the HRE the true successor to old Rome, but once said Greeks have taken back a lot of the old Roman lands, including Rome and Jerusalem, then they force the rest of Europe to acknowledge them as Romans.

That makes some sense for Europe, but less for the Middle East and Eastern Europe (and the Eastern Romans themselves), who already acknowledged them as Roman.

Eh I just call my Byzies the Eastern Rhomaioi Empire. Looks a bit better. Drop the Eastern if I retake enough of Italia.

It looks kind of odd to me. Combining two English words with the Greek rendering of Roman makes it look a little off.

 

[Lemont Elwood]

We do not have any plans for the Albigensian Crusade, sadly.

I'd honestly expected Albigensian Crusade stuff for Monks and Mystics, since it was originally supposed to be a Gnostic DLC (among other things).

I still think it would be good for you all to revisit the idea of heresies sometime. It seems to me like some of the heresies should really just be religions (Catharism is arguably an entirely different religion from Christianity, in the same sense that something like Mormonism is), and more generic heresies could function using something like the new Reformation mechanics. Especially if the heresies could have dynamic names. Like, a Bishop somewhere in the Catholic world develops their own new heresy that, say, argues against tithing to Rome (all Bishopric taxes go to the king), argues that clergy should marry, and that God has a third eye on his belly-button (or something). There would be some mechanic by which the Church can integrate the new changes (risking creating a counter-heresy), and if the heresy gets big enough, it just becomes its own church.

 

[Blackwhitecavias]

I'd honestly expected Albigensian Crusade stuff for Monks and Mystics, since it was originally supposed to be a Gnostic DLC (among other things).

I still think it would be good for you all to revisit the idea of heresies sometime. It seems to me like some of the heresies should really just be religions (Catharism is arguably an entirely different religion from Christianity, in the same sense that something like Mormonism is), and more generic heresies could function using something like the new Reformation mechanics. Especially if the heresies could have dynamic names. Like, a Bishop somewhere in the Catholic world develops their own new heresy that, say, argues against tithing to Rome (all Bishopric taxes go to the king), argues that clergy should marry, and that God has a third eye on his belly-button (or something). There would be some mechanic by which the Church can integrate the new changes (risking creating a counter-heresy), and if the heresy gets big enough, it just becomes its own church.

I expect some heresies are mostly heresies for gameplay reasons like to ensure they show up at all instead of just don't existing

 

[IndigoRage]

Isn't that just absolutely great? If anything, he need more aggressive bolghars and iconoclasm to truly experience what it is like to be a Basileus. But I'm curious to see how the AI will handle it as well.

Yeah I had no idea what this guy was talking about. I've been playing this game since like 2014 and against all odds the Byzantines almost always survive or bounce back to make the ugliest blob humanly possible. Amusingly considering your post, the First Bulgarian Empire conquering the kingdom of Greece from the 769 start date is pretty much the only time I've ever seen them collapse.

 

[CaptComrade]

Maybe rename the Byzantines to the Greco-Roman Empire?

 

[ChaosOnline]

Maybe rename the Byzantines to the Greco-Roman Empire?

I know there's a mod that I use that changes their name to the Roman Empire. There's also one that changes them to the Eastern Roman Empire.
When I'm playing them I prefer to use the Eastern Roman Empire mod, so that way I can reform the complete Roman Empire. When I'm not playing as them, I just use the Roman Empire mod, so they have the correct name from the start.