Dev Diary #93 - Venetian Guile

[Thure]

I don't see why people are disagreeing with you. This is a historical fact. Honestly, I'm kind of hoping that in CKIII, they just call them the Roman Empire from the start, instead of having to do a "reforming."

Eastern Roman Empire. Otherwise it's got confusing.
Also the reform is explained ingame as 'Get the West to accept you ARE the Roman Empire.

Eh I just call my Byzies the Eastern Rhomaioi Empire. Looks a bit better. Drop the Eastern if I retake enough of Italia.

Rhomaioi Empire? Makes gramatically zero sense...

+
That's true of pretty much every empire and every kingdom in the game. Almost all of them, from Arabia to Spain to Delhi, all saw their religion as central to their identity and legitimacy. Yet forming most Empires is not restricted by religion. You don't even have to be Christian to own them, you can convert to Islam and still control or usurp the Empire, you just can't form it.

Hell, as the Eastern Roman Empire, they weren't even always Christian. They have several Pagan rulers listed in their history files, after all.

The Roman religion is dead and not playable. So which religion should it be?

 

[OblivionGaming]

As a fan of the latin empire, this will be great!

 

[Lemont Elwood]

I expect some heresies are mostly heresies for gameplay reasons like to ensure they show up at all instead of just don't existing

The system could be changed so that instead of just having low Moral Authority flip provinces to random heresies, it flips them to religions from a list, with each list being unique. That way, Catharism could be in a Gnostic group, but Catholicism could still spawn it.

My understanding is that Catharism was mostly a reaction of the rural poor to very poor living conditions and an oppressive political environment, but it got as large as it dude do to somehow getting a footing among the lesser nobility.

Catharism, I think, would be best handled by an event chain where, if there's some mixture of widespread cultural repression, low Moral Authority, Depopulation/low Prosperity, and ruler traits that would indicate oppression, like Cruel and Greedy), an area can be targeted for widespread conversion. The local rulers would get events encouraging them to convert, so that the Cathars have a better chance of forming a solid block. Like in real history, though, the Cathar world would still generally be destroyed, both through really nasty events/decisions allowing for "accelerated" conversion and the holy war attrition that tends to destroy isolated heathen realms.

I was really disappointed that Reaper's Due didn't have Flagellants, too. They would have made a very interesting alt-history heresy (a world where Flagellants go mainstream, and self-harm becomes a religious mechanic).

 

[Hazamattaz]

I am looking forward to my dynasty spreading to crusader states in the known world.

 

[rus-chel]

Any other targets of shepard's and children crusades other Andalusia and Jerusalem?
Maybe Antioch/Syria and Egypt could be viable options?

 

[Mewtwo1234537]

Are we allow to play as the leader of the Shepard's Crusades even in Ironman mode?

 

[Andrelvis]

Ws already asked ? Then Why is still called Byzantine empire ?

Because the devs (and many of us) disagree that renaming it the "Roman Empire" is a good idea, since de facto it was substantially different from the Roman Empire of old, which is represented by its own title.

 

[Woifee]

Eastern Roman Empire.

Eastern Roman Empire is also a modern term. They didn’t use it themselves either.

 

[Andrelvis]

Eastern Roman Empire is also a modern term. They didn’t use it themselves either.

It should just be called the "Constantinopolitan Empire", to piss everyone off

 

[Prometheus_1]

I don't see why people are disagreeing with you. This is a historical fact. Honestly, I'm kind of hoping that in CKIII, they just call them the Roman Empire from the start, instead of having to do a "reforming."

Because the devs (and many of us) disagree that renaming it the "Roman Empire" is a good idea, since de facto it was substantially different from the Roman Empire of old, which is represented by its own title.

What means different? It was the same entity of the Roman empire, it continued as eastern portion. Doesn'tmake anyhistorical sense to claim it was a different thing .
They called themselves Romans and inherited both the infrastructures , laws and economy of the Roman empire, it evolved over time but that doesn't mean it is a different thing.

 

[Lupo Protospata]

It should just be called the "Constantinopolitan Empire", to piss everyone off

Why don't we use the original name? Basileía Rhomaíon ... even better, in Greek: Βασιλεία Ῥωμαίων

 

[Thure]

Eastern Roman Empire is also a modern term. They didn’t use it themselves either.

PARTLY true. They didn't used it in this form but they referenced to themself often as Eastern part of the Roman Empire.

And if you use THAT argument... the Holy Roman Empire wasn't called this until the 13th century. From Charlemagne to the 13th century the Holy Roman Empire was just called 'Roman Empire'. Do we really need two Roman Empires on the map?

 

[Wrestler X]

Will we get any special events for Pagan crusades? I'd love a Southern Crusade event to convert those misguided Catholics...

 

[Andrelvis]

What means different? It was the same entity of the Roman empire, it continued as eastern portion. Doesn'tmake anyhistorical sense to claim it was a different thing .
They called themselves Romans and inherited both the infrastructures , laws and economy of the Roman empire, it evolved over time but that doesn't mean it is a different thing.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on that one.

 

[Thrake]

Out of curiosity, is there any of the popular crusades that met with some success (at least fighting what they intended to and/or taking some place if just for a very little time)?

Thanks at least for Paradox to enlightening me on these strange events.

 

[Andrelvis]

PARTLY true. They didn't used it in this form but they referenced to themself often as Eastern part of the Roman Empire.

And if you use THAT argument... the Holy Roman Empire wasn't called this until the 13th century. From Charlemagne to the 13th century the Holy Roman Empire was just called 'Roman Empire'. Do we really need two Roman Empires on the map?

Only two?

By that line argument we should have five Roman Empires on the map after the Fourth Crusade!

EDIT: Six actually, I forgot the Sultanate of Rum

 

[The Shacks]

Eh it may be grammaticaly slightly off but every other name is an anachronism or just odd anyway, atleast my name has some greek in it whilst still resembling something I undertstand as an Englishman.

 

[Ed Mike]

The traditional narrative ends with the children being sold into slavery, but it doesn't have historical basis. Modern historians believe that the two separate movements (one from France, one from Germany) ended when the "children" got to the Mediteranean coast. In both cases, many of the people died en route. The one they seem to be using, the one where the leader claimed the sea would part for them, ended when most of the people were granted citizenship in Genoa. The other ended when the people gave up in Marseilles.

Interesting. Didn't know that. I live far enough from Europe that a lot of what we learn about its history is outdated.
One of the reasons I'm such a fan of CK since the days of Deus Vult is that, despite its quirks, it made a lot of us curious to learn more about some of the places, people and events we meet. Sneakily educational this franchise, huh?

Oh, yes, and thanks for the information.

(edited because... typo)

 

[Tony Van Dyck]

Regarding the Fourth Crusade event:
Who are eligible claimants? I'm guessing unlanded, for a start, but to what degree of relations? Should I, as the Basileus, have to be worried about one of my sons running off to join the Fourth only to be event-killed? What happens to the Byzantine claimant if the crusade fails?
You say there's a chance of it firing with every crusade: what % chance are we talking here?
Is it still possible for the Fourth Crusade event to happen if the Byzantines are Catholic and/or Venice is a Byzantine vassal?
Is the game rule for the Fourth Crusade binary (on/off) or a scale? Will turning it off or lowering it's chances negate achievements like some rules do?

Your sons wouldn't have the claims to go to the Latins, since they would only inherit those after you die so I doubt you'd have to worry about that.

Eh it may be grammaticaly slightly off but every other name is an anachronism or just odd anyway, atleast my name has some greek in it whilst still resembling something I undertstand as an Englishman.

Your solution would appease neither of the 2 camps, just like the guy wanting to rename it to the Greco Roman empire you're just going to piss off everybody.

 

[Slayen]

Only two?

By that line argument we should have five Roman Empires on the map after the Fourth Crusade!

EDIT: Six actually, I forgot the Sultanate of Rum

Latin, Nicaea, Holy Roman, Rum, Trebizond, and Epirus?

Just curious if those are the 6 you mean.