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HOI4 Dev Diary - Amphibious Vehicles and Research

Hi everyone! Another wednesday means its diary time! Today we will be talking about some quite big balance changes to tech as well as some new... watery toys :)

Amphibious Armored Vehicles

With Man the Guns we are adding two new classes of vehicles. Amphibious Tractors (AMTRACs) and Amphibious Tanks. AMTRACs were built in large quantities and used both in the Pacific by US Marines with good success as well as in Europe during major river crossings such as the Allied crossing of the Rhine. An AMTRAC is a amphibious tracked vehicle that offers soldiers protection, and depending on model, firepower when conducting landings.

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For heavier armor and firepower, amphibious tanks were developed. The allies used quite a lot of the Duplex Drive Shermans during D-Day. The idea was that the tanks would swim to the beach, then drive on to assault the German fortifications. The Sherman DD itself had some design problems, as it was designed for only 30cm high waves… which aren't exactly rare at sea. Many of them were also unloaded from their landing ships much too far out and sunk in the waves. Some beaches had good results, but for example Omaha beach was a disaster where most of them were lost. The Germans also planned for tanks for Operation Sealion, but experimented with snorkels and driving along the bottom instead. These were instead used during Barbarossa. The Japanese went more in the direction of attachable “flotation parts” with the Ka-Mi and Ka-chi tanks, making them look like tiny little warships. They never got the same large scale testings as the American tanks, but to me at least, seem to have been a more reasonable technical solution.

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These things combined means that you can design divisions to punch through heavily defended landing sites. Quite useful late game! These divisions are also great for when the enemy has fortified across a large river. On the flip side they are quite expensive to make, less fuel efficient and a little slower for what you get so you should have some plan for them before investing. Amphibious vehicle battalions also use your special forces limit, just like marines.

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Man the Guns comes with 10 unique 3d models for the amphibious tanks:
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mtg_amphibious_ger.png

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The mechanized infantry AMTRACs can be found in the Infantry tech tab while the Amphibious tanks are a branch of light tanks (the tier 2 amphibious tanks are close in stats to the 1939 medium tanks):

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Research Changes
We are changing up some things when it comes to technologies as well. Because we have been steadily adding more, and are adding a bunch more with Man the Guns, we will be adjusting the base research speed to be faster. Probably something like +10%, but we haven’t locked that down yet.

We are also changing how the formula works for calculating how long it takes to research things. Instead of a research bonus lowering the cost of the research, bonuses now affect the speed of research. This means that an old -50% cost modifier is roughly the same as a +100% speed modifier now. I say roughly because speed modifiers stack a lot better and in less odd ways when there are many of them. This essentially means that you can no longer get instant techs by stacking various modifiers, just really fast research.

We have also changed how ahead of time works and the Ahead of Time Bonuses from focuses etc. no longer give you a percentage off, but a number of years off. This is important because it makes certain tech rush strategies where you simply bypass much of the tree by chaining ahead of time bonuses not work. We feel that these things will make things play a lot saner, and stop ahead of time researching to be banned in some MP groups ;)
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The other change we are doing is to allow certain techs to get a bonus from XP. All doctrines as well as certain modules like torpedoes get a research boost when spending XP on them. This does two things for us: On the one hand we are not happy that one of your research slots is basically always locked to land doctrine research, and also the fact that we don’t really want nations to have maxed out their doctrines by the start of the war. So doctrines now get a bit slower to research, but by spending XP (benefitting the nations we want to have an edge here, like the axis) you will be researching faster than before. The other thing is to model certain stuff that were notoriously hard to get working right, like torpedoes, which for some periods of time had something like a majority failing to actually detonate when hitting a target. We want nations who get to see action here or dedicate training time on it to have a bit more of an edge.
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That’s it for this time! Do not miss that we are starting streaming of Man the Guns gameplay today, so tune in to see the new USA tree at 16:00 CET at https://www.twitch.tv/paradoxinteractive
 
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I noted the stream did not touch a single naval tech nor did it do anything with the navy. I also noted the air tech still has land aircraft researched first before carrier aircraft. All I can say is 'Dauntless'.
 
This seems awfully familiar, like there was some kind of mod that added this to the game
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Well I think he's in the beta, so...
 
That's unfortunate.

After extra years of research, after wasting experience on upgrades, after diverting tons of production .... you just hit the cap.

With current marines at least the equipment you produce for them can be used elsewhere once you are capped.

I would believe that tech regarding SF can b pushed with XP, making them worthwhile for the first time for me.
 
About damn time the amphibious vehicles got added! This will be so much fun.
 
@podcat
Eh... I really hoped for research system being reworked. That it will work like ship building working. That we will have some type of research facilities and when you are choosing what to research then you add research facilities to that technology to be researched, like we do with ships. This system would be much more interesting, not so arcade like we have now. Also in this case we would not have some research slots that are not tied to anything and appearing from thin air (or national focus trees... but for me it is same as thin air).

Loved this idea.
There should be a few kind of labs to be built as infrastructure. Naval, land and aerial tech labs. If one wants to speed up the ships design, just build more naval tech labs and assign them as suggested above. So, if I have 15 aerial tech labs, I should be able to focus in only one technology or designate each one to a different tech.
Also, been able to switch some labs from one line of research to another, like the civ-mil factories conversion system, would be great.
 
As they have said before it's very difficult to do DDs on AI. It basically consists of the phrase "we're working on it".

The AI is constantly improving and will continue to constantly improve but there are rarely any changes that cause such a step change in results that they can write a dev diary about it.
Well, they could show us improvements in templates, and a few timelapses they used for measuring succes of their changes, ex.

It is possible to show, how much equipment has AI created by start of war/arbitrary date, to demonstrate improved factory management.
It is possible to show how much equipment AI lost up to certain date.

One metric I`m particularly fond on seeing, is how many Italian troops drowned in transports sank in Mediterrainean.
@podcat please, please make it happen :D
 
Something that always bothered me was the fuel issue. I've seen this same issue in other games.
Why would a battleship (or any other vehicle) cost a specific amount of oil?
if I spend 30 units of oil to produce a single battleship, I'll be able to operate it forever without refueling?
Oil should be something supplied to the units, like manpower, with the possibility of storing what's extracted and not used. If a nation runs out of oil, their ships / tanks / planes / etc shouldn't be able to move, making the oil production and storage facilities a key target to be defended / destroyed / taken.
 
Something that always bothered me was the fuel issue. I've seen this same issue in other games.
Why would a battleship (or any other vehicle) cost a specific amount of oil?
if I spend 30 units of oil to produce a single battleship, I'll be able to operate it forever without refueling?
Oil should be something supplied to the units, like manpower, with the possibility of storing what's extracted and not used. If a nation runs out of oil, their ships / tanks / planes / etc shouldn't be able to move, making the oil production and storage facilities a key target to be defended / destroyed / taken.

This is a major feature of this DLC. You wanna read the dev diary here.
 
Maybe Im a bit late, but maybe we could have a single glider tank model for different nations (ex tetrarch, locust, ku-ro, a40/asu vehicles, airborn L3/L5 for italy, etc.) to attach to our airborn divisions?
Looking good, and hoping to make some true marine divisions!
 
Wouldn't having the tech for amphibious tanks be handled in the same way as Tank Destroyers and Self-Propelled Artillery been simpler and would have allowed greater variety in amphibious units? The same could be said for the Amphibious mechanized vehicles.
 
Wouldn't having the tech for amphibious tanks be handled in the same way as Tank Destroyers and Self-Propelled Artillery been simpler and would have allowed greater variety in amphibious units? The same could be said for the Amphibious mechanized vehicles.

Probably a combination of them not wanting so many subtypes and them wanting to tightly restrict the selection of amtanks. I don't really agree with the latter part, would much rather you could modify heavy tanks and so on for it, but I can see why people would think that way.