[MOD] Princes of Darkness (Vampires, Werewolves, etc...)

[daisha]

This is the craziest thing I ever saw, and one of the coolest. It seems like there are a lot of inappropriate events held over from vanilla, though. Who will build the roads? Vampires, I guess. The workings of religion/clans and the priest councillor are total mysteries to me, though. Is there more documentation than just the (very nice) PDF?

 

[flintsparc]

The mod reflects the supernatural world. The mortal world is still there. They are the ones that build the cities and control the culture. The "buildings" in holdings reflect vampire (other supernatural) influence. For exampled: bribed barkeep, or a ghouled commander of the town's night watch.

Yes, there are some inappropriate events left over from vanilla. CK2 has a lot of events and it is going to be time consuming to scrub them all. We are doing what we can, such as eliminating most disease effects or having vampires not in the vanilla religions.

There is a Reference Manual in the Wiki. The priest councillor works like vanilla, but it can take some effort to get one.

 

[daisha]

I find the relationship between technology and "buildings" very strange. It feels like you've found something for technology to do just because it exists in vanilla. I found myself having developed my capital to the no-tech limit and then... I can't figure out how to bribe an innkeeper? Okay... It seems like the gold cost of development is (or could be, level 1 bribes at least are currently quite cheap!) sufficient for putting the brakes on runaway development. I saw a few pages back you were considering adding some tech-up events so counts aren't totally paralyzed. Have you considered just ripping tech out? Tying the higher-tier bribes/ghouls to holding population seems more amenable to your general design, anyway.

Also, have you considered putting changing capitals on a cooldown rather than making it "once per lifetime"?

 

[flintsparc]

I saw a few pages back you were considering adding some tech-up events so counts aren't totally paralyzed.

Yes, but duchies come pretty easily to players.

Have you considered just ripping tech out?

No.

Also, have you considered putting changing capitals on a cooldown rather than making it "once per lifetime"?

Yes.

 

[daisha]

Yes, but duchies come pretty easily to players.

Even with a duchy (or better), tech advancement crawls with every province starting at 0.

 

[flintsparc]

Even with a duchy (or better), tech advancement crawls with every province starting at 0.

This has been changed in the github version. 1230 starts with 1+ tech and a bunch of level 1 buildings. 1505 is quite built tech level wise and building wise.

 

[daisha]

I did download the github version and replace my steam version with it, but I only got far enough to crash 2015 on startup. I'll give the new 1230 a try.

 

[flintsparc]

Hot code. You might try again in a couple of days. Doing a lot of work on unit graphics which causes problems.

 

[EmperorG]

So I have two questions about this great mod:

1) So both the Inconnu and the Ventrue can get the Eternal Consul trait, but which has the more legitimate claim to being Rome reborn? I would think it would be the Inconnu, but between their obession with Golconda and the fact that the Eternal Roman Empire title goes to the Ventrue leaves me uncertain.

2) Are there any different Clan or Sect Objectives in the earlier start dates? I really love all the Objectives and wanted to know if there were any more.

 

[flintsparc]

So I have two questions about this great mod:

1) So both the Inconnu and the Ventrue can get the Eternal Consul trait, but which has the more legitimate claim to being Rome reborn? I would think it would be the Inconnu, but between their obession with Golconda and the fact that the Eternal Roman Empire title goes to the Ventrue leaves me uncertain.

I believe this is a question worthy of the Jyhad

2) Are there any different Clan or Sect Objectives in the earlier start dates? I really love all the Objectives and wanted to know if there were any more.

The current clan/sect objectives were made with 1230 or 1350 start dates in mind. There will be more objectives in the future.

 

[daisha]

A few weird things you've probably already noticed:

1) "Embrace Mortal" and "Embrace Werewolf" are both valid targeted decisions for werewolves in your court.
2) If you attempt to embrace a werewolf you either successfully create an abomination or kill the werewolf... even if the werewolf is a vassal. This might be as intended, I don't really know if creating an abomination vassal is at all desirable, I haven't really read any lore for 15 years. But even if creating an abomination is an unmitigated, hopeless disaster, it seems like a werewolf should have a chance to kill me instead, or at least get away. They're not imprisoned, just at court (or ruling their own territory.)
3) When searching for potential plot backers, often people will have the hand icon indicating that a bribe would make them willing to back your plot... however, I've never had someone actually become willing to back my plot by giving them the interface-solicited bribe.

 

[flintsparc]

A few weird things you've probably already noticed:

1) "Embrace Mortal" and "Embrace Werewolf" are both valid targeted decisions for werewolves in your court.

We should remove the "Embrace Mortal" targetted decision for werewolves

2) If you attempt to embrace a werewolf you either successfully create an abomination or kill the werewolf... even if the werewolf is a vassal. This might be as intended, I don't really know if creating an abomination vassal is at all desirable, I haven't really read any lore for 15 years. But even if creating an abomination is an unmitigated, hopeless disaster, it seems like a werewolf should have a chance to kill me instead, or at least get away. They're not imprisoned, just at court (or ruling their own territory.)

In the lore, there is only a 1% chance that a werewolf becomes an abomination. The other 99% of the time, Gaia takes pity on the werewolf and just has them die. Its not about a fight between vampire and werewolf, its about a battle between The Beast and Gaia. That the werewolf is in your court (a requirement for the embrace decision) or your vassal does not matter to the success chance in the lore.

We increase the chance in the mod to about 10% for players.

See the Wiki on Abominations

 

[daisha]

In the lore, there is only a 1% chance that a werewolf becomes an abomination. The other 99% of the time, Gaia takes pity on the werewolf and just has them die. Its not about a fight between vampire and werewolf, its about a battle between The Beast and Gaia. That the werewolf is in your court (a requirement for the embrace decision) or your vassal does not matter to the success chance in the lore.

I meant more that since attempting embrace requires draining blood first, it seems that in many circumstances the target should have a chance to avoid the encounter altogether. Maybe embracing someone who actually likes you could be a freebie, but is a werewolf with -88 or -100 opinion of me truly helpless? Seems like embracing someone should require catching them first. A gimmie for the Innocent, sure. But I played a quick round in Siberia and found it quite easy to replace my werewolf vassals with my loyal Cappadocian childer. Maybe I'd have regretted it if I'd actually created an abomination, though.

 

[flintsparc]

I meant more that since attempting embrace requires draining blood first, it seems that in many circumstances the target should have a chance to avoid the encounter altogether. Maybe embracing someone who actually likes you could be a freebie, but is a werewolf with -88 or -100 opinion of me truly helpless? Seems like embracing someone should require catching them first. A gimmie for the Innocent, sure. But I played a quick round in Siberia and found it quite easy to replace my werewolf vassals with my loyal Cappadocian childer. Maybe I'd have regretted it if I'd actually created an abomination, though.

Good ideas.

 

[flintsparc]

Roll1D2 Games plays Princes of Darkness

Also, if folks would like to see changes in plot mechanics or other mechanisms in the mod, now would be a good time. We will probably change a lot of things related to personal combat with holy fury.

I'm leaning towards having the vampire intrigue plots fire more often, to have lower requirements for launching them but clearer chances of success.

Do people want to keep the 1-county jyhads, or have duchy jyhads?

In the github build we've done some build up of initial technology and buildings for 1230 bookmark.

 

[daisha]

I might have more input when I get a better handle on the game. Can I ask what the "Praxis" building does? I always build it because its so cheap but I haven't figured out what it's actually doing, or even if it's actually a good thing to build in all cases (like, in a very heterogenous realm would I be better off without it?)

 

[flintsparc]

I might have more input when I get a better handle on the game. Can I ask what the "Praxis" building does? I always build it because its so cheap but I haven't figured out what it's actually doing, or even if it's actually a good thing to build in all cases (like, in a very heterogenous realm would I be better off without it?)

It stops the AI from breaking the game.

We initially removed the entire vanilla building tree. Unfortunately, the AI regards an initial level of Castle as absolutely mandatory or it will do wacky things like constantly switch capitol between holdings. Praxis is just a renamed 1st level castle with no benefit.

We probably should rename castle1 to simple haven.

It doesn't matter if players build it or not.

 

[KolJ]

I'd prefer duchy jyhads really. The one county jyhads can get a bit monotonous.

 

[Astom777]

День добрый .Такой вопрос: когда будут добавлены новые эвенты? Не только для вампиров. И как будет развиваться механика других из мира тьмы? Или всегда играть за вампиров?
Большая благодарность за вашу работу.

 

[flintsparc]

День добрый .Такой вопрос: когда будут добавлены новые эвенты? Не только для вампиров. И как будет развиваться механика других из мира тьмы? Или всегда играть за вампиров?
Большая благодарность за вашу работу.

Astrom777, we do have more narrative events coming in the mod. Here are two of some of the ones that are being worked on now:

Vampires are still the current focus of the next update that will bring the mod all the way up to modern nights.

After the modern nights release, we will do the basics of the Wraith splat. The Wraith splat should have a bookmark set during The Great War.

We will then give Werewolves a much needed overhaul, including reworking their gifts from traits into non-transferable inventory artifacts. We might also set them up to use tribal province mechanics. The werewolves will get a bookmark set around year 990 and the Fernir-Fianna War.

We also have some ideas for mage objectives that will shape the technological and culture of the entire world, such as the Technocracy "advancing the time table", or the Verbena bringing back the mythic age.