• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

HOI4 Dev Diary - Amphibious Vehicles and Research

Hi everyone! Another wednesday means its diary time! Today we will be talking about some quite big balance changes to tech as well as some new... watery toys :)

Amphibious Armored Vehicles

With Man the Guns we are adding two new classes of vehicles. Amphibious Tractors (AMTRACs) and Amphibious Tanks. AMTRACs were built in large quantities and used both in the Pacific by US Marines with good success as well as in Europe during major river crossings such as the Allied crossing of the Rhine. An AMTRAC is a amphibious tracked vehicle that offers soldiers protection, and depending on model, firepower when conducting landings.

upload_2018-10-3_14-57-28.png


For heavier armor and firepower, amphibious tanks were developed. The allies used quite a lot of the Duplex Drive Shermans during D-Day. The idea was that the tanks would swim to the beach, then drive on to assault the German fortifications. The Sherman DD itself had some design problems, as it was designed for only 30cm high waves… which aren't exactly rare at sea. Many of them were also unloaded from their landing ships much too far out and sunk in the waves. Some beaches had good results, but for example Omaha beach was a disaster where most of them were lost. The Germans also planned for tanks for Operation Sealion, but experimented with snorkels and driving along the bottom instead. These were instead used during Barbarossa. The Japanese went more in the direction of attachable “flotation parts” with the Ka-Mi and Ka-chi tanks, making them look like tiny little warships. They never got the same large scale testings as the American tanks, but to me at least, seem to have been a more reasonable technical solution.

upload_2018-10-3_14-57-55.png



These things combined means that you can design divisions to punch through heavily defended landing sites. Quite useful late game! These divisions are also great for when the enemy has fortified across a large river. On the flip side they are quite expensive to make, less fuel efficient and a little slower for what you get so you should have some plan for them before investing. Amphibious vehicle battalions also use your special forces limit, just like marines.

upload_2018-10-3_15-0-30.png



Man the Guns comes with 10 unique 3d models for the amphibious tanks:
mtg_amphibious_eng_sov.png

mtg_amphibious_ger.png

mtg_amphibious_usa_generic.png

mtg_amphibious_jap.png


The mechanized infantry AMTRACs can be found in the Infantry tech tab while the Amphibious tanks are a branch of light tanks (the tier 2 amphibious tanks are close in stats to the 1939 medium tanks):

upload_2018-10-3_15-4-56.png

upload_2018-10-3_15-5-32.png


Research Changes
We are changing up some things when it comes to technologies as well. Because we have been steadily adding more, and are adding a bunch more with Man the Guns, we will be adjusting the base research speed to be faster. Probably something like +10%, but we haven’t locked that down yet.

We are also changing how the formula works for calculating how long it takes to research things. Instead of a research bonus lowering the cost of the research, bonuses now affect the speed of research. This means that an old -50% cost modifier is roughly the same as a +100% speed modifier now. I say roughly because speed modifiers stack a lot better and in less odd ways when there are many of them. This essentially means that you can no longer get instant techs by stacking various modifiers, just really fast research.

We have also changed how ahead of time works and the Ahead of Time Bonuses from focuses etc. no longer give you a percentage off, but a number of years off. This is important because it makes certain tech rush strategies where you simply bypass much of the tree by chaining ahead of time bonuses not work. We feel that these things will make things play a lot saner, and stop ahead of time researching to be banned in some MP groups ;)
upload_2018-10-3_15-33-50.png


The other change we are doing is to allow certain techs to get a bonus from XP. All doctrines as well as certain modules like torpedoes get a research boost when spending XP on them. This does two things for us: On the one hand we are not happy that one of your research slots is basically always locked to land doctrine research, and also the fact that we don’t really want nations to have maxed out their doctrines by the start of the war. So doctrines now get a bit slower to research, but by spending XP (benefitting the nations we want to have an edge here, like the axis) you will be researching faster than before. The other thing is to model certain stuff that were notoriously hard to get working right, like torpedoes, which for some periods of time had something like a majority failing to actually detonate when hitting a target. We want nations who get to see action here or dedicate training time on it to have a bit more of an edge.
upload_2018-10-3_15-34-39.png


That’s it for this time! Do not miss that we are starting streaming of Man the Guns gameplay today, so tune in to see the new USA tree at 16:00 CET at https://www.twitch.tv/paradoxinteractive
 
Last edited:
Sorry. I really had not seen this diary. I'll read it right now. Thank you.
Gotta stay current....if you miss a little, you miss a lot when talking about DD's.
 
Hell, the Maus had wading gear iirc.

So? Plenty of tanks had fording kits to cross deep rivers, that doesn't make them amphibious.

For the most part amphibious vehicles were/are designed from the ground up for obvious reasons.

The DD tanks required a fair amount of remodelling to accomodate the propeller drive and to make the tank watertight.
 

So the German snorkel kits are literally one of the three examples given in the OP of what are considered to make tanks amtanks for game purposes.

Yes, the Maus is the biggest stretch of them, which is why I selected it as the particular example, but if one were to leave the Germans out, you're still left with the fact that the amtank tree as show is extremely small given the range and breadth of the tanks they are supposed to represent, from like 2 tons to like 40, and from the 20s to the 40s.
 
Will we see also special sea weapons? Like the Italian MAS , the SLC and frogmen units? Or the Japanese suicide submarines?

Why not add jet pack battalions? Why bother with controlling the Channel when you can just hop over?

Rocketeermovieposter.jpg
 
Give me Super Heavy Amphibious Tanks or give me DEATH!!!

Given the likely handling characteristics of something like that, if you got it and then took it to sea, there's more than a small chance you'd get both ;).
 
So the German snorkel kits are literally one of the three examples given in the OP of what are considered to make tanks amtanks for game purposes.

Except that is not at all what podcat said:
The Japanese went more in the direction of attachable “flotation parts” with the Ka-Mi and Ka-chi tanks, making them look like tiny little warships. They never got the same large scale testings as the American tanks, but to me at least, seem to have been a more reasonable technical solution.

It's clear that the devs understanding of amphibious tanks does not include wading or deep fording tanks.
 
Except that is not at all what podcat said:

It's clear that the devs understanding of amphibious tanks does not include wading or deep fording tanks.

They are given as one of the examples. Saying that one thing is a better technical solution to an issue does not mean that all other things are not in the same category. If I say that the bullpup is a better solution for a short rifle than a carbine is, that doesn't mean I think the carbine doesn't count, it means that I think it's not as good. Even if we were to accept that absurd reasoning, the fact remains that you are quoting Podcat comparing the American and Japanese systems, not the German and Japanese, and so the argument would theoretically be showing that the DD tanks were not amtanks, not that the snorkel tanks were not.
 
Podcat comparing the American and Japanese systems

He is in fact comparing them with the German solution of slapping a snorkel on a tank.

Here is the full quote:
The Germans also planned for tanks for Operation Sealion, but experimented with snorkels and driving along the bottom instead. These were instead used during Barbarossa. The Japanese went more in the direction of attachable “flotation parts” with the Ka-Mi and Ka-chi tanks, making them look like tiny little warships. They never got the same large scale testings as the American tanks, but to me at least, seem to have been a more reasonable technical solution.

Note how it states that the Japanese went in a different direction immediately after bringing up the German solution.
The reference to American DD tanks is relevant in so far that the Japanese tanks came too late to be used in any major amphibious operations.

At any rate the idea of counting deep fording tanks as amphibious is laughable. They require extensive field modification and are basically defensless during and after the crossing.
There are good reasons this technology was not pursued too deeply in the end.
 
i like it that hoi4 is being made further interesting by deepening the game.

but PLEASE do some thorough research and enable things like the Kübelwagen - schwimmwagen.
This was a component in a division able to cross rivers.

Also if a fortification is maxed out at a beach, it isn't right that these new things suddenly can ,crack' it.

In this game a bigger efford has to be made if you really want a stronger fortification the resources added must be more expensive and have more detailed options.

Also a nice addition would be the existence of a natural slightly moving frontline and better explanation of consequences from partisan actions.

Hoi4 should aim to mitigate the fact that the game is a bit unrealistic because it is so high level.

If a division does not attack on the frontline. And others do say Germany in Russia. It is clear the standing non ordered in game division has still some small skirmishes going on as well as patrols that can cost casualties etc.

Happy researching too paradox team, when you achieve that i pay 20 EUr.
 
They're making a mexican focus tree and not remaking the italian one !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What joke is this ?? Who was more in the center of the conflct Italy or Mexico !!
Please I ask for the community to react !!

No fense mexicanos.

Fense taken, as a Mexican.

They already announced that it would be 2 majors and 2 minors, and the 2 majors were already announced. Take a chill pill if the minors they announced aren't to your liking.
 
Note how it states that the Japanese went in a different direction immediately after bringing up the German solution.
The reference to American DD tanks is relevant in so far that the Japanese tanks came too late to be used in any major amphibious operations.

Sorry, I don't believe that someone who can write as competently as you can in English would struggle this deeply with reading comprehension, so I'm going take it that this argument is in bad faith and stop responding.
 
I am curious, will you be adding depot ships in the future?
I mean having one would be very nice and all. (Allowing you to slowly repair on the sea and give more historical flavor)