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HOI4 Dev Diary - Mexico

Welcome to Mexico, a country ravaged by internal tensions, corrupt politicians, rural rebellions and threatened by the looming shadow of her northern neighbour. In Man the Guns, you will get the chance to work through all these obstacles, reform the nation and turn them into a power strong enough to expand or involve themselves in WW2.

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The Good, The Bad and The Ugly
Mexico’s politics at this time were dominated by revolutionary generals who toppled the dictator Diaz and then squabbled amongst themselves, issuing their pronunciamiento (a justification for their attempt to seize power) and betraying one another ruthlessly. Three of the main figures from these caudillos (a word combining the role of warlord, patron, businessman and politician) were President Lázaro Cárdenas, President Plutarco Calles, and military strongman Saturnino Cedillo. The ruling clique gradually turned from coups and civil wars to less violent means of seeking power, but at the start of the game this transition is still taking place.

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Lázaro Cárdenas, president from 1934 to 1940, was a socialist who led the nationalisation of Mexican oil concessions, built up state financing of manufacturing industries, encouraged the collectivisation of peasant farms and their protection from landlords via Ejido militias, and is celebrated today for his role in modernising the nation. Historically he helped the transition of Mexico from military dictatorship to a stable and functioning democracy thanks to his ability to both compromise with moderate opposition and undermine domestic threats to the state from extremists.

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Plutarco Calles, president from 1924 to 1928 and “shadow president” for much of the reigns of his successors, was a divisive figure to say the least. He attempted to cement the state’s power over the Catholic Church in Mexico using brutal suppression of priests and their faithful, going as far as torturing and even crucifying dissidents. The Cristiada, a rebellion by rural farmers to oppose this forced secularisation, won little success in the field against Calles’ troops, hardened as they were by civil war and supported by modern artillery and bomber planes, but it did cause some concern inside the ruling clique over methods, ultimately leading to a compromise between church and state. Calles still clings to the power he has left, and you must either throw him out of the country or accept his role in the new Mexico.
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Saturnino Cedillo, governor of San Luis Potosí, was one of the last of the caudillos to threaten the Mexican state. A survivor, he absorbed remnants of the Cristero rebels into his private army and managed to maintain relative independence in his province which the central government sought to crush. Ultimately he rebelled against Cardenas’ incursions into his power base. Historically his rebellion was short lived as the Cardenas government successfully undercut his support and disarmed his paramilitary forces, killing him in the field within a few months. Cardenas suspected America and Britain of inciting Cedillo’s rebellion by promising support, in order to punish Mexico for seizing their oil concessions, but no such support ever arrived.

Economic Development
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Mexico is a major producer of oil at the game start and only stands to increase its role as an exporter as the conflagration grips the world and upsets the flow of trade around the globe. Historically Mexico’s nationalisation of the concessions granted by Cardenas’ predecessors (mostly to Royal Dutch Shell and Standard Oil of California) caused a backlash from Britain and America which served to isolate Mexico and almost pushed them into the arms of the Germans. In game, you must develop your oil if you wish to become a major international player, and on the way you will build up your infrastructure using either Cardenas’ path of socialism and import substitution, or his successor Avila’s preference, liberalisation and privatisation.

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As seen in the Dutch dev diary, HoI4 is getting a new mechanic relating to concessions of resources from one country to another, which transfers the contents of a state free of charge. This will make its appearance in Mexico in the form of oil concessions to Royal Dutch Shell and Standard Oil of California. Nationalising these assets was a goal of the Mexican revolutionaries from the outset, and became a source of friction between Mexico and the former owners (Britain and America respectively) once President Cardenas actually took steps towards nationalisation.

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Military Expansion
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Mexico begins in 1936 as a war-weary third rate power, wracked by internal tensions and the legacy of decades of civil war. This was not always the case, however. The armaments industry established by President Diaz prior to the instability was making many advances in weapons technology, aircraft production, and even experiments in tank development. The famous Mondragon rifle was one of the earliest pioneers in semi-automatic small arms. A more assertive Mexico would also likely reject reliance on Italian gunboats and American hand-me-down destroyers if she sought to contest the oceans.

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After building up factories and shipyards, you have a choice to make on both the army and naval branches of the tree.

A Mexico uninterested in fighting decisive battles might instead decide to focus on convoy raiding, whereas choosing the contest the surface against your rivals will require a powerful surface fleet. The two “finishers” on the naval tree reflect these differences.

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When it came to land battles during the various insurrections against the central government, Mexico utilised her infantry, cavalry and nascent airforce in a powerful combined arms force the rebels were unable to defeat, and you will likewise be able to modernise the different branches of the armed forces until deciding between conventional artillery or aerial support as the “finisher” on the army side of the tree.

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Diplomatic Relations
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Mexico is considered America’s “backyard”, an insulting and imperious attitude for the Yanquis to take but one the Mexican leadership must consider seriously before making their move. Taking independent action on the international stage, aligning towards one of America’s enemies, or threatening America’s economic interests would all be causes of concern for President Roosevelt, let alone his more expansionist domestic rivals. Mexico can gamble on her northern neighbour being too isolationist to intervene south, but if the gamble doesn’t pay off, there’ll be Hell to pay.

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Religion
The biggest divide in Mexican society at the time was certainly the place of the Church within society. Most of the Mexican ruling class was strongly anticlerical and a law “on the tolerance of sects” meant that the priests heavily controlled by the state. If you want to change the situation, it will be up to you to progressively support the Catholic Church by giving back their lands and amend the anticlerical laws. If you go down that path the destruction of the separation between the Church and the State will be waiting for you at the end of the road.
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Two groups can rise to power hand in hand with the Church: the Catholic conservatives and the Synarchists. The conservatives try to combine their religious beliefs with republican institutions. It would lead to the rise of the Party of National Action of Manuel Gómez Morín. As an alternative, the restoration of the Church can be concomitant with a much more radical group: the Synarchists. That group will try to institute a “clerical-fascist” state, using the influence of the members of the Church eager to seek their revenge on the anticlericalists who ruled Mexico since the 1911 revolution. At the end of both trees, you can contact the veterans of the Cristero War and incorporate them to your armed forces. Such course of action will obviously anger the former ruling class that will surely try to contest power in order to reestablish the anticlerical legal system.

Revolutionary Legacy
At the start of the game, the Mexican army is divided politically as various generals support their own political group depending on their political orientation (they were usually opposed to the Church). One of your first choice will therefore concern the fate of the armed forces. You can choose to control and depoliticize them, transforming them into a professional force or embrace one of those groups and use them to quickly shift the political landscape of the country.

If you choose to support the Gold Shirts, the country will evolve into an anticlerical authoritarian regime. The exact nature of that regime can however vary a bit. Supporting Plutarco Calles (by selecting the “Jefe Maximo” focus) will grant direct control over the state as he was unable to fully control Cardenas. If Calles was previously exiled and the general Saturnino Cedillo was supported however, he will lead the opposition and take control of the government. If none of those conditions are fulfilled, Nicolás Rodríguez Carrasco, the leader of the Gold Shirts will lead the country instead.

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As an alternative to right-wing authoritarianism, you can favor the communist Red Shirts and suppress other political movements instead. This revolutionary movement will give the presidential seat to the Trotskyist head of the communist party Hernán Laborde

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… unless you invited his mentor to the government previously.

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You would then be rewarded by Leon himself, awake and angry, ready to take his revenge against Stalin

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It would then be your objective to lead the 4th Internationale and show how superior it is to the 3rd (aka the Comintern).

If you want more peaceful solutions, multiple tools are at your disposal, depending on your political orientation. If you are communist and don’t want to embrace the political legacy of the 4th International, you can try to form the Revolutionary American League and spread communism in Latin American countries.

As a more right wing oriented government, you can support “Hispanism”; the concept that the countries of South America should support each other; and try to form a faction including all of South America. If you are fascist (Synarchist or anticlerical), the effect will change from a diplomatic offensive to a more violent one. This course of action will allow you access to wargoal focuses that could enable you to unite South America by force.

If trying to dramatically change the political order in Latin America is not your thing, you can simply adopt “Realpolitik” and find allies in order to survive this era of global conflict.

Territorial Expansion
If you don’t want to just send a few planes to help the US against the Japanese, several expansion paths will be available to you once your diplomatic status is settled. Most of those will grant you wargoals against neighboring countries and in some cases, the addition of new cores will become possible.

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The most peculiar plan is certainly “Operation Just Cause”. If you approve that plan you will be in a border conflict against US in order take control of the Panama canal area.

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This will of course anger the US so be careful. The rest is either pretty straightforward or will be food for thoughts until the release.

Mexico was our final focus tree for MTG, so next we return to to the seas for more naval gameplay updates.

Rejected Titles:
  • Mexico? More like Maxico!
  • Making your casa my casa
  • Where in the world is Leon Trotsky?
  • No one expects the Mexican inquisition. Seriously. No one...
  • Mexico, or how I learned to stop worrying and love el jefe
  • Hit or Miss, I Guess They Never Miss Huh, You Got a Trotsky, Stalin gon' Icepick Ya

READ Thread mark before posting (no offtopic spam)
 
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Then its like just,....your opinion as well, man.

Your opinion kind of doesn't work if you're going to continue being an ass.

You literally can't be playing an accurate WWII simulator with HoI if you're meant to be able to influence the outcome of the game as any country. The war can end earlier or later than real history because or in spite of your efforts too.

Also, you don't get to ask why something is fun for someone else if you're going to write their answer off if they don't comply with what you think. Some people have more fun wreaking havoc for as long as possible with the country of their preference, some enjoy playing the majors and sticking as closely as possible to real life. You are not a majority, and we aren't a minority here.

Your question can still be answered with because it's fun. Why are there mods that rework major mods? Because they don't like what the devs could come up with or have more fun playing with something they think is better. Why are there people wanting to see what the devs can come up with in terms of cool stuff? Well, because they derive fun from seeing what other like-minded-but-not-totally-the-same individuals could come up with as an entertaining scenario.

Why rework the US when it's already not allowed to do nothing ahistorical except sit on their ass until the fun begins? Because people wanted to have fun without having to always do the same schtick with the US.

Neither you nor the others get to decide a single manner of fun for everyone.
 
The rifles are real. Though the Mondragons were not really widely used besides in Mexico in large numbers. They got pretty innovative with their small arms for the time but no one really wanted them because they had problems with ammunition not conjoining well with the rifle so it would cause issues and nations already had alternatives that could compensate without purchasing foreign stuff. They did lend them to the Spanish in the civil war so there is that. Couldn't tell you much about the LMG though. Might've been good but again can't say. Found an article though and will link it for ya if your interested. Also couldn't tell you much about their Aircraft. Tanks they didn't design/build any. There is that prototype from 1917 called the Salinas. Though it again was a prototype and only one was made and it pretty much was a modified mark 4 British tank.

Salinas- http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww1-mexico-tnca-salinas/
Mondragon-
Mendoza C34 - https://www.forgottenweapons.com/light-machine-guns/mexican-mendoza-lmg/

Actually, you're not right. Mexico hardly got to use the Mondragón rifles. It was the German Airforce in WWI that got to use those funnily enough.
 
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Your opinion kind of doesn't work if you're going to continue being an ass.

You literally can't be playing an accurate WWII simulator with HoI if you're meant to be able to influence the outcome of the game as any country. The war can end earlier or later than real history because or in spite of your efforts too.

Also, you don't get to ask why something is fun for someone else if you're going to write their answer off if they don't comply with what you think. Some people have more fun wreaking havoc for as long as possible with the country of their preference, some enjoy playing the majors and sticking as closely as possible to real life. You are not a majority, and we aren't a minority here.

Your question can still be answered with because it's fun. Why are there mods that rework major mods? Because they don't like what the devs could come up with or have more fun playing with something they think is better. Why are there people wanting to see what the devs can come up with in terms of cool stuff? Well, because they derive fun from seeing what other like-minded-but-not-totally-the-same individuals could come up with as an entertaining scenario.

Why rework the US when it's already not allowed to do nothing ahistorical except sit on their ass until the fun begins? Because people wanted to have fun without having to always do the same schtick with the US.

Neither you nor the others get to decide a single manner of fun for everyone.
Ha ok man. I'm glad your using mob mentality to justify your position and authenticity of your views. Really convincing stuff. I'm not inherently right in my views and I never claimed to be but you asserting that you are because you are apart of the occult "majority" here is funny. Especially since you use the most hollow and subjective reasoning possible for any and all design attributes that correspond with the game. Ya the intention of a game is to invoke "Fun" but there are many pieces here that influence said "Fun" and in a game as expansive and diverse of a setting that involves the 2nd world war i expect plenty of people to have different definitions of "Fun" when playing it. That doesn't mean you exclude one form of "Fun" for another because supposedly your "Fun" is more enjoyable and worthwhile then mine and I should just shut up about it or go to a modder because I'm not welcome in the majority because I express wrong think.

Ya call of duty is "Fun" because the level of expectation I have for it involves shooting other people quickly and get kill streaks for even more kills. Battlefield is "Fun" because my expectation is now altered and their take on a war game is pretty much call of duty but with enhancements and substitutes that more or less invokes a sense of being in a grander scale conflict. Kinda like how Hoi4 and Paradox ( a company whose motto embodies the premise of depth and expansive control) kinda pushed my expectation from games from say COH2 or Men of war. In that they expand what YOU the player can influence and the scale in which you influence it in.

But ya know what the hell I guess I'm not being sensitive to all those that fantasize about events that have no basis of happening either in the most specific of circumstances and factors. Ya great glad that temporary itch of yours can be scratched until the next Meme tree comes along. However I'm kinda in it for the long haul and I like to see a bit more fleshed out world war 2 come into play and I can't very well do that if resources are being stripped away so that more people can relive the Aztec empires rise to power again over the interconnected and grounded based reality that I thought this game was gonna be about.

I'll end it with this with your very own presumption and hypocritical statement "Neither you nor the others get to decide a single manner of fun for everyone."
 
I don’t think anyone in this thread made the claim Central American history wasn’t interesting.

Then that's a pleasant surprise. I was expecting that reaction. I suppose the Kaiserreich fandom is vastly different in that regard.
 
Trotsky leading Mexico?

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I can hear the usual monocles being dropped in the usual teacups, but I'm excited. I like how the developers have done their research, letting us explore an overlooked part of the world in a way that uses the new mechanics and still affects the broader, global conflict.

For players like me, who enjoy both historical and alternate history games, this is a nice compromise: the historical branch is well-detailed and lengthy, while the alternate history branches give you the option between moderate detours and Harry Turtledove-esque "what if" scenarios. A difficult balancing act, to say the least, but it looks like there's something there for everyone.

As to whether Mexico should or shouldn't have been included, or when--that question doesn't really concern me. As long as the major nations get revamped at some point, which I'm sure they will, I'll just be happy to have another interesting choice to experiment with that lies off the beaten path. (Still looking forward to Greece, Brazil, Spain, of course, but since getting my personal favorite, China, I'm in no rush. I know some are pushing for Finland, but wasn't that place just a debunked Russo-Japanese cover story? Might be going off-topic, though.)
 
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However, I find it weird that many of these minor powers that played small roles in the war (or basically no role when it comes to Mexico) have more special mechanics and better focus trees

The game designers are leveling up.

They've acquired skills in designing focus trees.

The original focus trees were done by folks with less experience. But over the past 4 years, the team has done a lot of XP farming and are now at least level 5.

(The modders have likely helped, too).

The newer national focus trees are more sophisticated because the designers are more sophisticated.

HoI4 is getting better and better!
 
The face when no monarchist path :(
Yeah I feel that's missing too.
Is the new on the top or the bottom? Because the bottom left is the legitimate Mexican Empire flag and I was kinda hoping for a path to restore the Mexican Empire and it’s monarchy:(
Yeah it's weird that it can apperantly be a monarchy but only through outside influence.
Wait does that mean Napoleon is coming back!?!?
Didn't the last Bornaparte die in the Boer/Zulu war? I could swear there was an event about it in Vic2...
Oh wait no it was the last direct descendant of Napoleon I.
Hey maybe in the French rework you can choose to bring the current Napoleon to power and then have Philippe Pétan as a general.
The last direct descendant of Napoleon has been dead for decades at this point.
Can't have monarchist memes in a country that hates monarchy and emperors.
Revolutionary France hated monarchy, until the right monarch turned up.
It looks pretty cool, except...


Well this is silly, Communists inviting foreigners to lead the government like Trotsky is Emperor Maximilian, Europeans often have a Eurocentric vision of the ROTW. Trotsky being an advisor, that's ok but Trotsky leading the country...:rolleyes: it's not like Trotsky had deep ties to Mexico.

What is disappointing is that Leon Trotsky seems superior to Hernán Laborde, who is stuck with the +5% Civilian Factories. If players want to do fantastical and unlikely things, it should be more of a challenge not less.
I think you can assume that if Trotsky is leader then Laborde is working behind the scenes hence why their bonuses are so similar. That said I would have made Trotsky a national spirit and suggested he has ruling from behind the scenes.

Mexico gets a lot of cool/unique/fun things to do and as America we get a civil war. o_O Yawn
A civil war was not at all an unlikely thing for america, the south still felt discontent, and the reconstruction had left them in a much better relative position than before the first civil war.
You shouldn't be. Royals in general and the Habsburg family in particular are very popular amongst many Paradox players.
There's also the case of there not being any real monarchies on the american continents at the moment (Sorry Canada but your King is over the ocean, your king is over the sea). There is no way to become the emperor of America at the moment. Though if the US had gotten a chance to put the house of Norton up... (It's a joke Emperor Norton did not have any heirs as far as I know).
USSR isn't a stand alone major power DLC, probably with Scandinavia
Why would you bundle up the nordics with the USSR? You do realize they fought against the USSR right? Finland directly and Sweden indirectly. In fact if the king had not gone out and supported Per Albin Hansson it's likely there would have been a coup and Sweden joining the war on the Finnish side.
 
Bizarre/irrelevant choice, particularly for a naval-themed expansion. Should have been another maritime country like Portugal.
The DLC is not so one dimensional as simply calling it a naval update. I think you greatly underestimate the consequences of adding fuel to the game. This as much as anything puts Mexico in an interesting position.
 
Revolutionary France hated monarchy, until the right monarch turned up.

Mexico fought off the Spanish crown, executed a hapsburg a few decades later even though he was making the country rich for being monarchy, and near the start of the new century political bitching managed to get the country to rise just by merely suggesting an old fart was trying to become emperor.

Mexico does not like monarchy, and even killed monarchy when it turned up.
 
Mexico fought off the Spanish crown, executed a hapsburg a few decades later even though he was making the country rich for being monarchy, and near the start of the new century political bitching managed to get the country to rise just by merely suggesting an old fart was trying to become emperor.

Mexico does not like monarchy, and even killed monarchy when it turned up.
So? loads of countries have executed monarchs. At the end of the day it all comes down to the person.
 
This easily looks like the best focus tree you guys have ever put into the game. If all future focus trees have the same amount of detail and options, I would have no complaints. This easily tops what any mod has ever added in terms of giving actual choice and special mechanics. The only sad thing is that countries from older DLCs will never have anything approaching this level of detail.
 
Welcome to Mexico, a country ravaged by internal tensions, corrupt politicians, rural rebellions

Mexico’s politics at this time were dominated by revolutionary generals who toppled the dictator Diaz and then squabbled amongst themselves, issuing their pronunciamiento (a justification for their attempt to seize power) and betraying one another ruthlessly.

The ruling clique gradually turned from coups and civil wars to less violent means of seeking power, but at the start of the game this transition is still taking place.

nationalisation of Mexican oil concession

collectivisation of peasant farms and their protection from landlords via Ejido militias

He attempted to cement the state’s power over the Catholic Church in Mexico using brutal suppression of priests and their faithful, going as far as torturing and even crucifying dissidents.

the ruling clique

Calles still clings to the power he has left

Saturnino Cedillo, governor of San Luis Potosí, was one of the last of the caudillos to threaten the Mexican state. A survivor, he absorbed remnants of the Cristero rebels into his private army and managed to maintain relative independence in his province

a law “on the tolerance of sects” meant that the priests heavily controlled by the state.

Mexican army is divided politically as various generals support their own political group depending on their political orientation

All this makes me seriously question how anyone could claim Mexico was a democracy in this time frame. I've seen many such claims on these forums.


In other PDX games including previous HoIs the historical event choice is always the first choice. For the sake of clarity and consistency HoI4 should be brought in line with that policy. Several times in MP have I seen an AFK France auto-refuse the Rhineland because for some strange reason accepting isn't the first choice in HoI4.

In this Trotsky event the second choice seems to be the historical one and thus should be first on the list.


Coring these states within 6 years, let alone 60 days, makes no sense but okay. Realistically they would've had partisan activity for years, probably decades.
 

You're not even using the quote right. Especially considering you're wrong. I'm not claiming mob mentality, you're just accusing me of it to write me off. So screw off with that.

Nobody is excluding your kind of fun, and you cannot claim otherwise until Paradox begins literally excising the historical paths from the game. So screw off with that.

I like all the games you mentioned, they literally cater to different crowds in almost every way except the coat of paint and relatively similar mechanics between competing franchises. Literally, what's your point there? You got me confused with bringing this without making any use of it, you tryna sound extra verbose just to get people to ignore you?

You cannot claim that everything you don't care for is "Complete fantasy and unable to happen" considering the game already allows you to change how things happen and is in no way meant to be railroaded into just the historical outcome. You can keep making the accusations that everything you don't like is meme trees and the like, you'd be wrong regarding me, I've already said that a mod in the workshop makes a better somewhat more realistic and decision-filled Mexico tree and I like that one better still.

Get over the fact your country didn't get chosen yet, it will hopefully be chosen soon so stop with the salt. YOU are the one that still doesn't get to singularily decide what's fun. And here I'll tell you why you're not using the quote right: I never claimed that "I" could decide that alone either, so cheers to your numb skull.
 
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All this makes me seriously question how anyone could claim Mexico was a democracy in this time frame. I've seen many such claims on these forums.

It's... easy? Literally the form of government was still a representative republic, there were forms of corruption and cliques, but none of them actually tried to subvert the form of government to impose a different one.
 
It's... easy? Literally the form of government was still a representative republic, there were forms of corruption and cliques, but none of them actually tried to subvert the form of government to impose a different one.
Are you also claiming North Korea is a democracy because it formally is? What about Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union? Or mid-1930s Poland and the Baltics?
 
So? loads of countries have executed monarchs. At the end of the day it all comes down to the person.

Yes, but those other countries, you could say, had better reasons or excuses.

Our boy Maximilian here got offed just because he was royalty trying to rule Mexico, despite doing his best to improve the country. He opened a few hospitals, a university and started improving infrastructure as soon as he could, none of that changed people's opinions.
 
Are you also claiming North Korea is a democracy because it formally is? What about Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union? Or mid-1930s Poland and the Baltics?

No, why would I claim that?

I'm pointing out that during the time frame elections were still a thing, the population still had a sort of input on the whole system, that wasn't blocked from happening. The powers that be were corrupt to a degree, but all of them continued working within the ruling system we've had since the 1800s. Not completely rigging it and later erasing it like North Korea, or subverting and making it useless like the Germs or the SU.
 
No, why would I claim that?

I'm pointing out that during the time frame elections were still a thing, the population still had a sort of input on the whole system, that wasn't blocked from happening. The powers that be were corrupt to a degree, but all of them continued working within the ruling system we've had since the 1800s. Not completely rigging it and later erasing it like North Korea, or subverting and making it useless like the Germs or the SU.
A country characterised by civil wars, ruling cliques of military strongmen, political assassinations, armed rebellions, regional despots, clerical dominance, shadow presidents, a politicised military, collectivisation, and so on, is not a democracy.

If you want to know what a democracy looks like, take a look at the Nordic countries, France, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Switzerland, the UK and US, etc.