CK2: Dev Diary #117 - Historical Wonders

[Prometheus_1]

Why no COLOSSEUM? No Haghia Sophia? No Cabaa? No Jerusalem Wall of tears?

 

[Xsardas333]

Why no COLOSSEUM? No Haghia Sophia? No Cabaa? No Jerusalem Wall of tears?

Well, i think that wall of tears should appear via decision for jewish king+ as I tier 3td temple if nothing else is build (and if is just should override previous wonder)

 

[Andrzej I]

I think having the Temple Mount as the great work for Jerusalem would make a lot of sense. Perhaps a bit awkward to code, though, since you have competing monuments there: the Western Wall (as mentioned directly above), the Dome of the Rock / Al Aqsa Mosque, and any Third Temple that someone might wish to build, giving competing bonuses to different religions and all. Combining them into one "Temple Mount" work might be the best, if clunky, approach, I think, perhaps with demolishable upgrades suggesting which religious work is the dominant feature.

 

[Vohen]

Grand Mosque
Local Tax Modifier +100%
Monthly Piety +0.01
Missionaries +1

Great Buddhist Temple
Local Tax Modifier +100%
Tolerance of Heathens +1

Wait, is there a cap on the global additive modifiers such as these and others?
I can imagine that if you build several of those, it might become quite broken.

 

[Brian McG]

Loading a previous save would leave the world devoid of historical Great Works as these are created when we resolve history at the beginning of the game.
Great Works can be turned off in the game rules. It can also be set to allow only the historical ones and if you want to be really strict you can also set it to a restrictive mode where the great Works exist but neither you nor the AI can change them in any way.

Does this mean that if I load a previous save that was started before the update that I'll be able to build great wonders but there won't be any historic ones?

 

[Serenity84]

That actually raises a question about how to represent the Great Cities

You could have the city as a wonder and then the individual buildings as upgrades to it. So instead of spikes and a torture dungeon you can build a great wall, a cathedral and a library

 

[prismaticmarcus]

thanks for the EU4 lerrv...

 

[scorch2]

@MonzUn Can provinces have more than one Great Wonder?

For example, in Rome there's also the Colosseum, the ruins of the library of Alexandria etc?

Also will Hellenics have any special wonders they can build aswell? (A special mausoleum that allows you to search for Alexanders body to entomb it perhaps, could work with Alexanders Bloodline event?)

Also in the stream I noticed that Dan & co could send alcoholic gifts, will Muslims characters not be able to do so as alcohol in Islam is a big no no?

Thanks.

 

[MonzUn]

Does this mean that if I load a previous save that was started before the update that I'll be able to build great wonders but there won't be any historic ones?

Yes

 

[MonzUn]

@MonzUn Can provinces have more than one Great Wonder?

For example, in Rome there's also the Colosseum, the ruins of the library of Alexandria etc?

Also will Hellenics have any special wonders they can build aswell? (A special mausoleum that allows you to search for Alexanders body to entomb it perhaps, could work with Alexanders Bloodline event?)

Also in the stream I noticed that Dan & co could send alcoholic gifts, will Muslims characters not be able to do so as alcohol in Islam is a big no no?

Thanks.

1. Only one Great Work per province will be supported. This is a hard coded limitation that is very difficult to change at this point.
2. I don't know, I'm not a content developer
3. I don't know where we settled on that actually... I know there was some discussion about it being a thing during our time period but that it was frowned upon by religious leaders. But again, I'm not a content developer so I'm not thy guy to ask I'm afraid.

 

[Serenity84]

Also in the stream I noticed that Dan & co could send alcoholic gifts, will Muslims characters not be able to do so as alcohol in Islam is a big no no?

This wasn't always as strict as it is today. Being drunk was certainly frowned upon and sometimes the sale of alcohol was restricted, but in the middle ages drinking wine wasn't uncommon for Muslims. Also some cultures were - and still are - more tolerant of alcohol than others.

 

[Kapitalisti]

Also in the stream I noticed that Dan & co could send alcoholic gifts, will Muslims characters not be able to do so as alcohol in Islam is a big no no?

Murder and fornication are big no no's for all Abrahamic religions but are pretty common regardless.

 

[Rubidium]

I think having the Temple Mount as the great work for Jerusalem would make a lot of sense. Perhaps a bit awkward to code, though, since you have competing monuments there: the Western Wall (as mentioned directly above), the Dome of the Rock / Al Aqsa Mosque, and any Third Temple that someone might wish to build, giving competing bonuses to different religions and all. Combining them into one "Temple Mount" work might be the best, if clunky, approach, I think, perhaps with demolishable upgrades suggesting which religious work is the dominant feature.

Don't forget the Church of the Holy Sepulchre! Particularly relevant for any would-be crusaders, and not located on the Temple Mount.

Probably best just to let Jerusalem develop on its own, as the religion situation will vary from game to game (and unless a player is actively involved, Jerusalem is unlikely to be Jewish-controlled, so best not to have a pre-existing wonder in such an important province that its owners' won't be able to use).

 

[Andrzej I]

Don't forget the Church of the Holy Sepulchre! Particularly relevant for any would-be crusaders, and not located on the Temple Mount.

Ah, yes! I knew I was forgetting the Christian "great work" in Jerusalem! Thank you!

Probably best just to let Jerusalem develop on its own, as the religion situation will vary from game to game (and unless a player is actively involved, Jerusalem is unlikely to be Jewish-controlled, so best not to have a pre-existing wonder in such an important province that its owners' won't be able to use).

Mm, not sure I fully agree. I still think a Temple Mount "great work" is the way to go, given its great importance to the Abrahamic faiths. Despite the Church of the Holy Sepulchre being not on the Temple Mount, I think it isn't too egregious to have it be a part of it all the same. Then again, maybe I'm assuming demolishing upgrades for great works to be something easier to code than it actually would be. Either way, though, leaving Jerusalem blank and allowing someone to, say, build the Pyramids of Jerusalem, would be really awkward, I think.

 

[Soladept]

Dunno, i think invading Aztecs would love to raze the temple mount and build a nice pyramid

 

[Scorpion71b]

GIVE HAGHIA SOPHIA!!!!!

 

[Arko]

In overall, the more historical wonders are set, the less you can build yourself. I am happy there's not that much already cluttering the world from start.

 

[Zalmoxis]

Is there a ballpark average number of wonders on you will see on the map? Single digits? 10 to 20?

How uncommon will these be?

 

[Rubidium]

In overall, the more historical wonders are set, the less you can build yourself. I am happy there's not that much already cluttering the world from start.

Indeed. This is why I am fine with neither Jerusalem nor Constantinople having one at start. Those are reasonably likely to end up as player capitals (either for Byzantophiles or for someone doing a real Crusader King run), and it would be nice for them to be free for whatever the player wants them to be (yes, that includes potentially creating a giant pyramid with spikes and dungeons, if e.g. a Norse player conquers Jerusalem and wants to taunt the monotheists).

 

[Azsouth]

just saw the youtube clip, please add more wonders, like the Library of Alexandria (would mean making two+ great works in provinces available), Hagia Sofia with dynamic religion if that matters, the ruined temple of Soloman with a choice to rebuild it and become the Antichrist maybe, Colosseum of Rome, Aquaducts of Rome, the other varius churches in Jerusalem, make it so certain developed or historically accurate provinces can have more great works, like Rome, Alexandria, Jerusalem, London, Paris, Constantinople, etc...

you said it's hard coded at the moment for one per province, not to sound like an a-hole, though I'm sure this will, but you guys are literally the developers, isn't it your job to figure this stuff out, in the effort to making this game as historically accurate as possible?