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1) I tend to do such things because I like orderly, hierarchichal setups. Also, I find the opinion boost is higher than expected, even given the removal of the penalty and the obvious boost.
2) Yep.
3) The fort defense modifier only changes at the end of a month. It's kind of annoying.
4) I'm pretty sure he's an adventurer now.
Sending Hakon away was definitely the right idea - look at just how much he does when he doesn't just plot Eilif's death!
Vengeance against Tuure is a good thing. And now that Garðariki prospers, it may be time to attack someone. Perhaps get in on the fun of disintegrating Könugarðr as an easy first target? The war shouldn't be too difficult to... distract... Eilif from his other... goals .
7 Q1: Transfer Vologda?This is a simple enough question – should I or shouldn’t I transfer Ukko to Tyuey? The answer and considerations could be a little more complex than the question, of course. Other than the immediate opinion considerations (which I hope I have right – in effect a 35 point positive opinion shift), I’d be interested in people’s thoughts on the idea and any implications I may not have considered or warnings I should heed. Eilif’s initial concerns are plain enough, but it is a tempting thought.
Ukko's not that valuable a vassal, so there isn't much to lose for Eilif nor much to gain for Tyuey. But it would get rid of a clash in opinion to give Tyuey his de jure vassal. As long as the vassal isn't important to me or I dislike the duke or high chief (mostly if he's a heathen and the vassal in question a good faithful), I tend to give him the count/chief.
Chapter 67 Q2: Complementary Claims.Does Eilif have this right? While a direct competing claim for conquest can, as we’ve seen a few times now, lead to mutual hostility between the two claimants, if it is of a different type, does that mean in all or at least some cases they can be prosecuted simultaneously without causing such a clash?
That's about right. If both of you wish to actively conquer the same title (be it conquest/claim wars for a county, holy wars/duchy claims etc.), both of you are hostile to each other. As subjugation targets the whole opposing realm (even if it was only a county in this case ), the wars didn't clash.
Invalidation has some surprises still. But in this case, it is clear: the Finn's subjugation target had no more land, and subjugation CB doesn't transfer to the new owner. Dyre had launched a conquest war that isn't a valid CB against coreligionists. Sometimes, conquest wars get invalidated upon the other enemy's success though, and I have no clue why .
Chapter 67 Q3: Looting Delay.This one had me stumped. The stronghold had fallen, but the ‘not able to loot’ icon was still on and the looting bar still seemed to show a stronghold in place. This persisted for quite a while – not just the day of the victory. It was a one-holding county. Any idea what might have been delaying this? You will see further down that looting eventually recommenced, but there was no obvious reason for the delay nor its resumption. I don’t recall this having happened before (if it did, I’d missed it).
No idea, but may be monthly tick. But look at it like this: Your men have finally won the siege of the main holding. Are they going to set out immediately to loot the countryside again? No, they are going to have some fun in the holding they just looted!
Ch 67 Q4: Hakon’s Host.He really is a busy character! I checked (to be sure) and it is not a mercenary band. He is also not at war with or raiding anyone (yet anyway). Is there a chance he’s been plucked as an adventurer, given some troops and will soon be off to try to do some conquering?
Yes, Hakon's leading a raiding host now. He will start launching raids with his merry band, amass wealth and men (or die trying), and then launch a war to seize land of his own - or approach you with an offer to buy land from you, serving as future vassal .
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The Fifth Þing of Eilif’s Reign – February 896 (a summary of advice from Chapter 67)
The Fifth Þing of Eilif’s Reign – February 896 (a summary of advice from Chapter 67)
With the next chapter largely done, it’s time to convene the Þing.
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Ch67 Q1: Transfer Vologda?This is a simple enough question – should I or shouldn’t I transfer Ukko to Tyuey? The answer and considerations could be a little more complex than the question, of course. Other than the immediate opinion considerations (which I hope I have right – in effect a 35 point positive opinion shift), I’d be interested in people’s thoughts on the idea and any implications I may not have considered or warnings I should heed. Eilif’s initial concerns are plain enough, but it is a tempting thought.
In line with my previous comment, just make sure if that does not enable your vassals to create a new duchy level title that you could've created. Other than that, there's no single rule about granting vassals to vassals in my opinion, it depends on each case and in your case it makes a lot of sense actually (regarding that you're not enabling a new duchy level title to Tyuey by that).
You will see that Ukko keeps trying hard to make the case for cutting him over to Tyuey – my main concern being Tyuey’s own growing power and the chance he could turn nasty and go independent.
Oh one thing I forgot to add about q1: if giving ukko to tyuey would make him create a duchy, or if you just want to screw with them, you can give ukko to somebody that you want tyuey to hate. So if he has a buddy he always has with him when he is factioning or so, give ukko to him then tyuey will be pissed off at him for having that province and not you. You’ll lose the negative, you’ll not gain the positive but you’ll put a wedge between 2 vassals.
EDIT: also, you'll still have an opinion bonus, just not with Tyuey but whoever you gave Ukko to.
That’s an idea too – “Oh, Dyre, brother, my love for you is so great that I will bequeath to you a great gift …” Though he has too many counties as well, even if he manages them poorly. But it’s a great idea. Losing the Vologda malus is worth more than the opinion bonus. There could be other good candidates as well. Nice tip!
Pretty much going to second @diskoerekto, both on his original answer and on his later addendum. It's mostly a matter of weighing whom it would benefit the most.
1) I tend to do such things because I like orderly, hierarchichal setups. Also, I find the opinion boost is higher than expected, even given the removal of the penalty and the obvious boost.
Ukko's not that valuable a vassal, so there isn't much to lose for Eilif nor much to gain for Tyuey. But it would get rid of a clash in opinion to give Tyuey his de jure vassal. As long as the vassal isn't important to me or I dislike the duke or high chief (mostly if he's a heathen and the vassal in question a good faithful), I tend to give him the count/chief.
Seems like a good rule-of-thumb. In this case, while Tyuey remains a heathen, so too does Ukko – and he keeps being irritating.
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Ch67 Q2: Complementary Claims.Does Eilif have this right? While a direct competing claim for conquest can, as we’ve seen a few times now, lead to mutual hostility between the two claimants, if it is of a different type, does that mean in all or at least some cases they can be prosecuted simultaneously without causing such a clash?
This is basically correct. A subjugation war transfers and / or disbands any titles of equal rank to the attacker, then vassalizes the defender, so Uusimaa could in theory have still asserted dominance over Vandemeel if he had another landed title after losing the one Dyre and the Swedes were contesting.
That's about right. If both of you wish to actively conquer the same title (be it conquest/claim wars for a county, holy wars/duchy claims etc.), both of you are hostile to each other. As subjugation targets the whole opposing realm (even if it was only a county in this case ), the wars didn't clash.
Invalidation has some surprises still. But in this case, it is clear: the Finn's subjugation target had no more land, and subjugation CB doesn't transfer to the new owner. Dyre had launched a conquest war that isn't a valid CB against coreligionists. Sometimes, conquest wars get invalidated upon the other enemy's success though, and I have no clue why .
All your words made sense, are clearly expressed and sound true – but I still can’t quite grasp it completely! I think I need a bit more experience to be able to understand it more than 30 seconds after I finish reading it!!
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Ch67 Q3: Looting Delay.This one had me stumped. The stronghold had fallen, but the ‘not able to loot’ icon was still on and the looting bar still seemed to show a stronghold in place. This persisted for quite a while – not just the day of the victory. It was a one-holding county. Any idea what might have been delaying this? You will see further down that looting eventually recommenced, but there was no obvious reason for the delay nor its resumption. I don’t recall this having happened before (if it did, I’d missed it).
No idea, but may be monthly tick. But look at it like this: Your men have finally won the siege of the main holding. Are they going to set out immediately to loot the countryside again? No, they are going to have some fun in the holding they just looted!
OK, thanks guys, so maybe not a game bug per se, just a built-in anomaly (if there’s any difference)! NB: when I played on, I monitored this more closely and it was indeed as you said, a monthly tick.
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Ch67 Q4: Hakon’s Host.He really is a busy character! I checked (to be sure) and it is not a mercenary band. He is also not at war with or raiding anyone (yet anyway). Is there a chance he’s been plucked as an adventurer, given some troops and will soon be off to try to do some conquering?
In Turkish we call characters like him as "having maggots in his arse" and interestingly it sounds very Gardarikian when translated to English In game mechanics terms though I have no idea what he's up to.
Haha! I wish the game could give characters those maggots in the nether eye! Eilif would certainly pay good gold to have Hakon so afflicted – by Loki’s Maggoty Arse!
He certainly is -- you can even see his shiny new "Adventurer" trait in the traits roll there As of now it looks like he's simply spawned as the "wandering raider" type, which means he isn't targeting a specific realm and will just wander the map, raiding and looting, until he either gets some land for himself or he dies. Hopefully the latter.
Yes, Hakon's leading a raiding host now. He will start launching raids with his merry band, amass wealth and men (or die trying), and then launch a war to seize land of his own - or approach you with an offer to buy land from you, serving as future vassal .
This is a very good kind of competitive spirit that helps the kingdom It's also good that they are getting counties from the same de jure duchy (if I'm not mistaken) which would mean neither would be able to create the title but we could. In fact, when you have some time you can check if after recent conquests of our vassals there are new duchy level titles to create or not. They bring a lot of prestige.
And it’s slowly getting to the point where Eilif might be gathering the money and prestige to at least consider such things. Please remind me when we get a bit further along, if I forget!
Thank you (on Eilif’s behalf). There is a target in mind, also some smaller bits and pieces. But the larger subjugation target may take some time for Eilif to work up to in terms of his own strength – and for the potential target to lose a bit of their current lustre. More will be revealed in the coming chapter.
A small note: If the concubine-to-be won't accept an invitation to your court first, you can always petition the ruler whose court she's in and see if you can get him to turn her over instead. Not exactly the most progressive option, yes, but then again these are medieval Vikings we're talking about here
You know, if you had kept him in your court you would have had a valid reason to throw him in prison with all these plots... Ah well, hindsight is 20/20 and all that.
I think on balance I rather like him elsewhere than me having to get all tyrannical of relation-imprisoning (perhaps even kinslaying temptation) with him.
Technically a raiding group isn't flagged as "hostile" until it actually enters the other ruler's land, so you should have been good here. Still, a good thing to keep in practice if / when a real war arises.
Sending Hakon away was definitely the right idea - look at just how much he does when he doesn't just plot Eilif's death!
Vengeance against Tuure is a good thing. And now that Garðariki prospers, it may be time to attack someone. Perhaps get in on the fun of disintegrating Könugarðr as an easy first target? The war shouldn't be too difficult to... distract... Eilif from his other... goals .
I agree – Hakon can be a pest at a distance, I just hope he doesn’t manage to reach back at some point closer to home. I’m more hoping he gets killed in battle or captured and executed at some point by a would-be adventuring target! As for vengeance on Tuure - Eilif will have him bleeding from the eyes by the end of this ordeal, if he has anything to do with it! But can he carry it off before anything else intervenes? Stay tuned to find out
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As always, my sincere thanks for the engagement with the AAR and your kind words and advice. The next episode is written in draft and illustrated, just need to do the publishing/formatting now.
Chapter 68: Migratory Birds (20 February – 11 December 896)
Chapter 68: Migratory Birds (20 February – 11 December 896)
Previously, on Blut und Schlacht … Eilif has now made the production and grooming of an heir his primary ambition – he would eventually like someone who can supplant his villainous brother Dyre as his successor under the elective system of the kingdom; King Halfdan’s realm contracted further, dividing into separated enclaves, beset by the Hungarians in the west and Tyueykezhut and Hrolfr in the north; the long and vengeful raid on Tuure of Karelia went on mercilessly; and Eilif's troublesome nephew Hakon continued to make a nuisance of himself – though mainly in far off Britannia.
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February-March 896
A message came from Chief Grimr of Smaleskja towards the end of February. He had appointed his wife Ingrid Alfgeirsdottir as his Court Chaplain on 12 February. But less than two weeks later she was dead, succumbing to cancer as her father, the former Steward of Garðariki, had not that long before. Not wishing to see an important Norse vassal unmarried for long, Eilif found a suitable girl from among his courtiers as a match. Iliana was keen to be married and was soon bundled off to Smaleskja. In the same packet of papers was a report from the Chancellor: on 20 February, Chief Ukko of Vologda had become the new leader of the Independence faction. But this was good news, as it meant (and it was confirmed) that Grimr had withdrawn from that faction. Whether a coincidence with poor Ingrid's death or not, this was very welcome. And yet another reminder for thinking seriously about signing Ukko over to Tyueykezhut’s rule, just to get rid of him.
The Independence faction was now risible – not to be worried about, unless someone with real power decided to join it.
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Grimr seemed happy enough with the practicalities of his latest marriage: young Iliana was made Court Chaplain the day after the wedding. Two problems solved through the thoughtfulness of his king. No doubt this meant, having observed the forms, he could return to his true desires in private. And not with Ingrid, other than for duty.
The two Garðarikian vassal wars on the Halfdan ‘the Hopeless Joke’ of Vanishing Könugarðr seemed to be progressing well. Hrolfr had now occupied Roslavl and should soon have the bargaining power to force Halfdan into yet another concession of territory.
On 10 March, Eilif’s raiding army struck the vastly outnumbered company of Tuure in Ääninen: it was yet another slaughter for virtually no loss. Every such battle just reinforced how the tables had turned since the humiliation of his father and himself at the beginning of Eilif’s reign. The siege of the tribal fort soon started.
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April-May 896
In early April, Eilif received momentous and welcome news – his concubine Edla was with child! At last, after much earnest (and vigorous) trying, Eilif had embarked along the road to parenthood.
Some days later this good mood was deflated a little when he found out that his despised brother Dyre had himself found a wife – a Norse girl from Hrolfr’s realm. This caused Eilif to redouble his own efforts to secure his branch of the Rurikid line.
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Early May brought news – some of the most humiliating in years of ritual humiliation for the almost-lost Kingdom of Könugarðr: Halfdan had conceded defeat to Chief Drágvi Lázár of Galich. His capital was lost – renamed to Kiev and absorbed into the Kingdom of Drágvi’s liege: King Arpad of Hungary. Halfdan was forced to move his seat to Korsun, meaning his realm was now divided into three separate parts in the east, north and south.
And less than a week later, Eilif’s increasingly powerful Marshal Hrolfr found his own victory and another expansion of his growing demesne. Eilif welcomed the growth of Norse power within the realm – and the taking of a heathen temple that could now be used for Germanic rites. Hrolfr still seemed solid in his loyalty – for now, anyway.
A pleasant spring was made even more joyous for the king with the announcement by Queen Ingrid that she too was pregnant. Coming from such a brilliant wife, there were high hopes for the child – and the Queen was very thankful to Freya for letting her compete with Eilif’s concubines in the heir-producing stakes.
In Finland, High Chief Onni was being attacked from two directions: he fought both Chief Hinsta ‘the Spider’ of Häme (who currently occupied Satakunta) and the Swedes who had come to conquer Suomi. They fought in Satakunta, where Onni – despite being outnumbered – appeared to have the better morale and to be winning a close-fought battle. Though the deciding factor was probably his healthy superiority in heavy infantry and cavalry (thanks to this army being a tribal host).
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June 896
Meanwhile, Eilif’s relentless punishment of the Karelians continued, with the tribal hold in Ääninen surrendering on the first day of June. Again, no Garðarikian troops had been lost taking it: a few gold went into the bag straight away, the rest would flow in over coming days.
Later that month, a letter arrived from Dan of Belo Ozero: after finishing their contract in Britannia, the Novgorodian Band had travelled to far Hispania, where it had been hired by the Salimid Emirate. They were currently in Saraqusta in Andalusia – and had suffered disastrous casualties in the past months, with their strength down to only 250 men!
As a result, they were hardly raking in the gold for the Kingdom. The same report showed that someone was supporting Hakon as a pretender in the succession for the Kingdom of Garðariki, which the hated Dyre otherwise had sewn up at the moment. All the more reason for him to try to kill Eilif, which he still tried to do. The two people the king hated most in the world were those who stood to gain the most from his demise – never a good thing.
Over in western Finland, Onni had prevailed in his battle and was now trying to retake Satakunta from Hintsa the Spider. Interestingly, Tuure was an ally of Onni in both the wars (against Häme and the Swedes), but Eilif’s actions had made that support virtually impossible to deliver on. Not that he was worried by this too much.
And in the south, a familiar story was unfolding: having regained Korsun briefly from Hungarian occupation after that settlement, Halfdan had lost it again, to Tyueykezhut, who was still prosecuting his own claim war for Kolomna by himself now (he was the only current active claimant on Könugarðian territories).
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July-August 896
A month later, the raiders had extracted everything of value they could from Ääninen and began the march back to Kexholm – from where their intention was to finish grinding the Karelians into the dirt by sacking Savo. It was hoped these actions would render Karelia feeble for years, so if they were ever called to war against Garðariki through their alliance with Mari , they would have little to offer. And, of course, to make the revenge all the more complete.
At the same time, Satakunta had been retaken by Onni and – some time during July [not known exactly when, didn’t have Onni tagged as a character of interest at that time]Uusimaa had been absorbed into the High Chiefdom of Satakunta, with Chief Lalli a tribal vassal giving allegiance to Onni. And Onni now had the upper hand against ‘the Spider’, at least.
Ch68 Q1: Absorption of Uusimaa.Without any announcement as to how it happened and a check of the two chiefs and their histories giving nothing, I’m wondering how this might have happened without a war being fought. A request by Onni to Lalli to submit to his overlordship? Just curious.
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In mid-August, Onni’s Finnish army was besieging Häme – if he could take that, it would no doubt force Hintsa to agree to ignominious terms. A small Karelian force was making its way to Häme from Kexholm: it was a race to see whether they would make it west to be slaughtered by Onni, or would be hit by the returning Garðarikian raiding force before they could get away.
But Onni’s situation changed for the worse a couple of weeks later: the Swedes had brought a new army in – from the sea, by the looks of it. They had landed in Suomi and were besieging it: and they were very well equipped, as well as outnumbering Onni by almost two-to-one. He may succeed in knocking Häme out, but it was hard to see them prevailing over this latest Swedish push.
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September-October 896
The Garðarikian raiding party arrived back in Kexholm on September 1 – to find the Karelians not yet escaped.
“Kill every last one of them!” yelled a forbidding Þorfinn as the fierce raiders ran forward with blood-curdling cries.
And that is just what they did, with only three unlucky Garðarikian being sent to Valhalla. More revenge!
That small job taken care of, the raiders headed up to Savo, to do for it as they had done for the rest of Tuure’s realm.
“King Eilif,” said Chancellor Tyueykezhut one autumn day. “I have news from the south, if you would hear it.”
“Ah, of course Tyuey. Your claim on Halfdan?”
“In due course, My King. But first, we have received word of the Monster’s latest exploits against Vladimir of Bulgaria.”
“Oh dear – is he learning the same lesson as Dyre the Stranger did before him?”
“I’m afraid so. Launching holy wars against Mari seems in no way wise, despite Vladimir’s supposed reputation for wisdom. Not only has Saksa occupied all of Bulgaria’s eastern enclave near his southern border: he has marched into Bulgaria proper and seized Vladimir’s own capital!”
“By all the Gods, I’m glad we have not poked at that hornets’ nest – nor had Saksa swarm on us!”
“Indeed, King Eilif. And, like King Dyre before him, others now seem to be leaping upon Vladimir’s misfortune. He faces a revolt in his heartlands and is also being raided by the formidable Barsbek the Liberator of Chernigov. And the Queen Mother reports one Egill of the Varangian Guard is also planning an incursion of his own in coming months.”
“Vladimir had better settle his folly with Saksa soon and look to his own security, before the vultures descend on him by the dozen. I think we’ll continue to leave Saksa well and truly alone and hope he collapses physically or politically.”
“A wise course of action, My King, if I do say so myself.”
“And how do you fare against Halfdan in your claim, Tyuey?”
“Well enough, My King, but we have just received word that Halfdan has somehow managed to raise a great host. Rather than using it to retake his capital of Korsun, which I currently occupy, it seems he is determined to rush north to confront my main army directly.”
“I see – and he outnumbers you now?”
“So he thinks. But my claim is almost won and I will not surrender it meekly. I have something in mind – Halfdan may be pleased with his sudden raising of an army the like of which Könugarðr has not seen for years. But he may come to regret not staying south in Korsun. Meanwhile, I will take Pronsk to advance my position.”
By the look on Tyuey’s face, Eilif was once again glad he had sought to woo and appease the Jarl rather than alienate him. Halfdan’s confidence could well be challenged, Eilif thought to himself as the old Jarl strode from the state chamber.
The Queen Mother had been left in Constantinople to continue her good work there – without her efforts over decades, Garðarikian learning would barely have advanced. This time, texts on economic practices in the great Christian empire had been sent north to Nygarðr.
As September drew to a close, Savo became the next Karelian county to feel the axe and fire of Þorfinn’s raiders. The siege would be quite a long one, but there was time for it. Karelia would be ashes and dust by the time Eilif was finished with it.
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Early October brought Halfdan’s new army further north, while Tyuey calmly laid siege to Pronsk. Perhaps his plan was to force peace before Halfdan could bring his superior army to bear?
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November 896
On 2 November, Eilif’s first child was born – a daughter, Skuld, to his favourite concubine Edla. Not a son perhaps, but Eilif was very pleased indeed. She would be eventually educated in the ways of thrift by Aslaug, the Court Tutor.
In Finland, Onni had taken Häme and was at that moment negotiating Hintsa the Spider’s humiliating concession of defeat. But Suomi had been taken by the Swedes, who had by then sent an advance party forward to Satakunta. For some reason Onni had decided to head to Savo, but was still on the move. For him to challenge the main Swedish force would probably be foolhardy anyway.
While the last act of the Great Karelian Raid was being played out in Savo, Eilif turned his thoughts to future conquests. The lands to the south of Garðariki were richer than in the north and could be seen as part of a greater realm – an empire, even – for the people of 'Russia'. In addition to the remnants of Könugarðr, much of that land was now in the hands of Hungarians and Poles. But a large chunk of it was owned by Barsbek the Liberator of Chernigov. Specifically the counties of Chernigov, Novgorod Seversky and Pereyaslavl. Barsbek may be too strong at present, but later on a subjugation war on Chernigov may be a grand objective to aim for. Other provinces on the southern border of the expanding (thanks to very active vassals) Garðarikian territory could also be considered for conquest in one-off claims.
Lands to the north-east could also be considered part of this imperial 'Russian' dream – though they were of course not nearly as prosperous or well-populated as further south. But a few ‘one-off projects’ could also be considered there, perhaps starting with the recently-raided Romny (owned by the now one-county High Chiefdom of Veps). Others could be added gradually over time.
For now, with the strength of Noregr, Sviþjod and Denmark and the marriage ties with the latter two, Rurik’s old dreams of a westward expansion and the retaking of enough Germanic holy sites to reform the faith would have to wait. For a start, Eilif had to rebuild the core strength of the royal demesne to enable such bold projects.
By the end of November, Jarl Tyuey’s plan was clear. As Halfdan’s host closed in on Bryansk, Tyuey's army began to withdraw north. But his masterstroke was to call up a host of his own, by itself almost equal in number to Halfdan’s force. It began to march south, clearly planning to join up with the levies to form a single large force. He was almost at the point where he could force Halfdan to yield – but not quite. It may take one great battle to resolve the issue.
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December 896
On 11 December, Eilif’s generally very good year became an excellent one: Queen Ingrid gave birth to a son, who would be known as Styrkar. For now, he was placed under Aslaug's care, but this would soon be changed to someone more in keeping with what Eilif intended. For Styrkar would learn of struggle and war.
Styrkar’s birth gave Eilif someone to focus his dreams for the future on. He therefore withdrew his formal support from Dyre and switched it to his infant son. His case may be weak for now, but as he grew older and with his father’s support, his standing may improve. Of interest, Rikulfr – the nice nephew – had attracted the support of his brother Jarl Buðli. And it was Hrolfr who was supporting Hakon – why he would do such a thing was a mystery. It did mean that Dyre’s stranglehold on the succession remained but was not quite as tight as it had been.
Ch68 Q2: Succession Politics.I know this is a long-term proposition and it may at present be in my in-game interests to keep supporting Dyre for purposes of realm unity should Eilif die soon. But Styrkar already now has claim on a couple of the core Holmgarðian provinces anyway and, for role-playing and sentiment purposes, it seems right to try to support Styrkar. Especially given the mutual hatred between the two brothers and the groom and heir ambition. But if there are any tactical points worth raising, I’m all ears, whether Eilif would do them in role-playing mode or not.
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Questions
Only a couple of formal questions posed this time, but any general commentary or points on things not raised formally are, as always, very welcome. After this raid on Karelia is done, Eilif will be looking at where to go next – for ships, for a small conquest in the north or south, or something larger (though maybe not quite yet – waiting for him to come down a peg or two).
Ch68 Q1: Absorption of Uusimaa.Without any announcement as to how it happened and a check of the two chiefs and their histories giving nothing, I’m wondering how this might have happened without a war being fought. A request by Onni to Lalli to submit to his overlordship? Just curious.
Ch68 Q2: Succession Politics.I know this is a long-term proposition and it may at present be in my in-game interests to keep supporting Dyre for purposes of realm unity should Eilif die soon. But Styrkar already now has claim on a couple of the core Holmgarðian provinces anyway and, for role-playing and sentiment purposes, it seems right to try to support Styrkar. Especially given the mutual hatred between the two brothers and the groom and heir ambition. But if there are any tactical points worth raising, I’m all ears, whether Eilif would do them in role-playing mode or not.
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Birth CK2 style – the stork bears its precious bundle.
From the Interweb (so no guarantee - or even expectation - of accuracy is provided ):
“Whatever the origins of the myth, historians tend to agree that the idea of the baby-bringing stork was most firmly established in northern Europe, particularly Germany and Norway. During the Pagan era, which can be traced back at least to medieval times more than 600 years ago, it was common for couples to wed during the annual summer solstice, because summer was associated with fertility. At the same time, storks would commence their annual migration, flying all the way from Europe to Africa. The birds would then return the following spring — exactly nine months later. Thus, storks became the heralds of new life, spawning the fanciful idea that they had delivered the human babies.”
In early April, Eilif received momentous and welcome news – his concubine Edla was with child! At last, after much earnest (and vigorous) trying, Eilif had embarked along the road to parenthood.
A pleasant spring was made even more joyous for the king with the announcement by Queen Ingrid that she too was pregnant. Coming from such a brilliant wife, there were high hopes for the child – and the Queen was very thankful to Freya for letting her compete with Eilif’s concubines in the heir-producing stakes.
Ch68 Q1: Absorption of Uusimaa.Without any announcement as to how it happened and a check of the two chiefs and their histories giving nothing, I’m wondering how this might have happened without a war being fought. A request by Onni to Lalli to submit to his overlordship? Just curious.
By the look on Tyuey’s face, Eilif was once again glad he had sought to woo and appease the Jarl rather than alienate him. Halfdan’s confidence could well be challenged, Eilif thought to himself as the old Jarl strode from the state chamber.
When looking at the map, I can't help but want Barsbek as a vassal to us. He'd do great I wonder if there's a CB for that other than the once in a lifetime thing. Not to seize lands for us but to vassalize.
But a large chunk of it was owned by Barsbek the Liberator of Chernigov. Specifically the counties of Chernigov, Novgorod Seversky and Pereyaslavl. Barsbek may be too strong at present, but later on a subjugation war on Chernigov may be a grand objective to aim for
By the end of November, Jarl Tyuey’s plan was clear. As Halfdan’s host closed in on Bryansk, Tyuey's army began to withdraw north. But his masterstroke was to call up a host of his own, by itself almost equal in number to Halfdan’s force. It began to march south, clearly planning to join up with the levies to form a single large force. He was almost at the point where he could force Halfdan to yield – but not quite. It may take one great battle to resolve the issue.
I was evident from his words that he had something in his sleeve, but he probably spent a lot of prestige for that big host and all that for a province. Good for us and less good for Tyuey.
Why not Ingrid herself? She has awesome stats! I don't remember the specific details but the educator must have at least 2 traits over 12 and have a 4 star education himself/herself.
Ch68 Q2: Succession Politics.I know this is a long-term proposition and it may at present be in my in-game interests to keep supporting Dyre for purposes of realm unity should Eilif die soon. But Styrkar already now has claim on a couple of the core Holmgarðian provinces anyway and, for role-playing and sentiment purposes, it seems right to try to support Styrkar. Especially given the mutual hatred between the two brothers and the groom and heir ambition. But if there are any tactical points worth raising, I’m all ears, whether Eilif would do them in role-playing mode or not.
I'm not sure about the technical details of this, but I could've supported the good nephew as the Dyre antipode until I know my son will be better than him purely for RP reasons.
Ships will be good as long term investment, more lucrative raiding means money & prestige although I'll never say no to a small conquest somewhere to flex some muscles, especially so if there's a choice piece of land somewhere Do you have your eye on something specific yet?
Revenge is complete for now. It will surely take Tuure years to recover! Speaking of which - may Halfdan slowly manage a recovery? Should he fail against Tyuey, likely not (though apparently all these defeats did leave him with enough prestige to motivate a tribal host, so he at least gets points for trying).
With both Tuure raided and Styrkar born, the time is ripe to look outward again!... not against the Monster, though.
Ch68 Q1: Absorption of Uusimaa.Without any announcement as to how it happened and a check of the two chiefs and their histories giving nothing, I’m wondering how this might have happened without a war being fought. A request by Onni to Lalli to submit to his overlordship? Just curious.
That does look like swearing fealty (very likely through Onni's request). Though usually you need to be a king for a count/chief to accept your vassalage, same culture/religion de-jure vassals may agree if you are powerful enough. I'm not looking up the Finnish duchy layout now, but that may have been the case here.
As I very much doubt he had the time to disband his levies, attack Lalli and capture him immediately .
Ch68 Q2: Succession Politics.I know this is a long-term proposition and it may at present be in my in-game interests to keep supporting Dyre for purposes of realm unity should Eilif die soon. But Styrkar already now has claim on a couple of the core Holmgarðian provinces anyway and, for role-playing and sentiment purposes, it seems right to try to support Styrkar. Especially given the mutual hatred between the two brothers and the groom and heir ambition. But if there are any tactical points worth raising, I’m all ears, whether Eilif would do them in role-playing mode or not.
Withdrawing your support for Dyre would cost some relation towards him (not that you care, being rivals ), while my experience with Elective Gavelkind is limited enough to give real advice here . Though as I understand it, any son of the previous ruler gets some of his father's titles and the opportunity to declare independence. Thus there would be no difference right now if you'd support Styrkar or Dyre.
That does look like swearing fealty (very likely through Onni's request). Though usually you need to be a king for a count/chief to accept your vassalage, same culture/religion de-jure vassals may agree if you are powerful enough. I'm not looking up the Finnish duchy layout now, but that may have been the case here.
Oh wow until this day I didn't know such an option existed. After your post I checked the wiki and apparently the following table describes how:
Code:
Factors Value Description
I am a king! -5 (blocking) Kings cannot be vassalized diplomatically.
False religion -5 (blocking) Even if the same religious group as liege.
Distant realm -5 (blocking) You need a land border with the character, if you're not their de jure liege.
Weaker than I am -6 (blocking) Military must be superior to the vassal
Base reluctance -2
Not my de jure Liege -3
Foreign culture -4 or -3 -3 if same culture group
Small difference in rank -3 At least two ranks difference (Baron-Duke, Count-King, Duke-Emperor) to negate
Power -5 to +5 Amount varies based on relative military power. If you're weaker than the target, "Weaker than I am" will trigger instead of a negative Power modifier
Opinion -2 to +1
So, are there any non-king tier Norse realms around? There was one upstart who invaded some provinces to our north, is that a kingdom?
EDIT: of course if I read in detail what I posted, I would've seen that we either need Germanic culture Duke level or foreign culture count level realms in de jure Rus kingdom, or both Germanic culture and count level if outside the de jure Rus kingdom. This leaves us with, uuh, I'm guessing there aren't any independent Norse counts anywhere, or at least anywhere close to bordering us; and there are only 2 counties in de jure Rus kingdom that we don't have (which Saksa the Monster has).
if you send some the maps of the vassals (and maybe list of de jure titles we and our vassals already have), I can even tell you who needs to be kept away from where and which ones we can create for example as soon as Tyuey gets Kolomna we can create the duchy level title of Ryazan for 200 gold (or less gold and some piety) which will net us 200 prestige immediately and 0.2 prestige monthly. Also, Hrolfr should stay away from Pronsk otherwise he can create it before us or usurp it from us. It's ok if Tyuey or somebody else has Pronsk.
Or do we need to hold those provinces directly? To my knowledge we can create the duchy level title even if our vassals hold the counties, I guess?
“Whatever the origins of the myth, historians tend to agree that the idea of the baby-bringing stork was most firmly established in northern Europe, particularly Germany and Norway. During the Pagan era, which can be traced back at least to medieval times more than 600 years ago, it was common for couples to wed during the annual summer solstice, because summer was associated with fertility. At the same time, storks would commence their annual migration, flying all the way from Europe to Africa. The birds would then return the following spring — exactly nine months later. Thus, storks became the heralds of new life, spawning the fanciful idea that they had delivered the human babies.”
1) I'd guess you have the right of it. Had the lower title changed hands, you could look at the title history to deduce what happened. But that doesn't apply in this case.
2) At the moment there's no huge reason to go either way, and I prefer your choice for RP reasons.
Storks) Askhistorians, as usual, has a better explanation: https://reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/51du2j/whatwhenwhere_is_the_origin_of_the_myth_that/
if you send some the maps of the vassals (and maybe list of de jure titles we and our vassals already have), I can even tell you who needs to be kept away from where and which ones we can create for example as soon as Tyuey gets Kolomna we can create the duchy level title of Ryazan for 200 gold (or less gold and some piety) which will net us 200 prestige immediately and 0.2 prestige monthly. Also, Hrolfr should stay away from Pronsk otherwise he can create it before us or usurp it from us. It's ok if Tyuey or somebody else has Pronsk.
Or do we need to hold those provinces directly? To my knowledge we can create the duchy level title even if our vassals hold the counties, I guess?
Am just writing up the latest Thing and then publishing the next chapter (the session for which had already been played through). Will have a look at this aspect after that, perhaps as an 'addendum'.
The Sixth Þing of Eilif’s Reign – December 896 (a summary of advice from Chapter 68)
The Sixth Þing of Eilif’s Reign – December 896 (a summary of advice from Chapter 68)
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Ch68 Q1: Absorption of Uusimaa.Without any announcement as to how it happened and a check of the two chiefs and their histories giving nothing, I’m wondering how this might have happened without a war being fought. A request by Onni to Lalli to submit to his overlordship? Just curious.
That does look like swearing fealty (very likely through Onni's request). Though usually you need to be a king for a count/chief to accept your vassalage, same culture/religion de-jure vassals may agree if you are powerful enough. I'm not looking up the Finnish duchy layout now, but that may have been the case here.
As I very much doubt he had the time to disband his levies, attack Lalli and capture him immediately .
Oh wow until this day I didn't know such an option existed. After your post I checked the wiki and apparently the following table describes how:
Code:
Factors Value Description
I am a king! -5 (blocking) Kings cannot be vassalized diplomatically.
False religion -5 (blocking) Even if the same religious group as liege.
Distant realm -5 (blocking) You need a land border with the character, if you're not their de jure liege.
Weaker than I am -6 (blocking) Military must be superior to the vassal
Base reluctance -2
Not my de jure Liege -3
Foreign culture -4 or -3 -3 if same culture group
Small difference in rank -3 At least two ranks difference (Baron-Duke, Count-King, Duke-Emperor) to negate
Power -5 to +5 Amount varies based on relative military power. If you're weaker than the target, "Weaker than I am" will trigger instead of a negative Power modifier
Opinion -2 to +1
So, are there any non-king tier Norse realms around? There was one upstart who invaded some provinces to our north, is that a kingdom?
EDIT: of course if I read in detail what I posted, I would've seen that we either need Germanic culture Duke level or foreign culture count level realms in de jure Rus kingdom, or both Germanic culture and count level if outside the de jure Rus kingdom. This leaves us with, uuh, I'm guessing there aren't any independent Norse counts anywhere, or at least anywhere close to bordering us; and there are only 2 counties in de jure Rus kingdom that we don't have (which Saksa the Monster has).
1) I'd guess you have the right of it. Had the lower title changed hands, you could look at the title history to deduce what happened. But that doesn't apply in this case.
Yeah, tried looking at the title history at the time but, as you say, nothing recorded as it was not a usurpation.
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Ch68 Q2: Succession Politics. I know this is a long-term proposition and it may at present be in my in-game interests to keep supporting Dyre for purposes of realm unity should Eilif die soon. But Styrkar already now has claim on a couple of the core Holmgarðian provinces anyway and, for role-playing and sentiment purposes, it seems right to try to support Styrkar. Especially given the mutual hatred between the two brothers and the groom and heir ambition. But if there are any tactical points worth raising, I’m all ears, whether Eilif would do them in role-playing mode or not.
I'm not sure about the technical details of this, but I could've supported the good nephew as the Dyre antipode until I know my son will be better than him purely for RP reasons.
Fair point, but I guess I wanted to start early for game reasons, and with the son for RP reasons: heir grooming, and long-awaited first son – he was a long time coming!
Withdrawing your support for Dyre would cost some relation towards him (not that you care, being rivals ), while my experience with Elective Gavelkind is limited enough to give real advice here . Though as I understand it, any son of the previous ruler gets some of his father's titles and the opportunity to declare independence. Thus there would be no difference right now if you'd support Styrkar or Dyre.
Yes, I checked Styrkar’s inheritances and he gets a few of the central counties. If necessary, Dyre may need to be ‘dealt with’ in due course – but probably not unless it is approaching Styrkar’s majority and both Eilif and Dyre remain in the land of the living – almost 16 years off, yet! Though maybe knocking Dyre off before he can produce a son might be expedient, too … one thought I had was adopting the military focus and then challenging him to a duel (as long as one or the other is killed, it will unify the realm. And mean the king (whichever one it is) has access to boats.
Not to sure about the latter, but two kids including an heir – happy with that. Just so we don’t now end up with too many sons who end up hating each other!
They’re certainly doing a good job of it – and we may do a bit more later if we can line Chernigov up for a subjugation war. Some years off that though, I think.
When looking at the map, I can't help but want Barsbek as a vassal to us. He'd do great I wonder if there's a CB for that other than the once in a lifetime thing. Not to seize lands for us but to vassalize.
I said it before And have to add again, characters such as Barsbek can be great RP devices in a court
I was evident from his words that he had something in his sleeve, but he probably spent a lot of prestige for that big host and all that for a province. Good for us and less good for Tyuey.
Why not Ingrid herself? She has awesome stats! I don't remember the specific details but the educator must have at least 2 traits over 12 and have a 4 star education himself/herself.
Ships will be good as long term investment, more lucrative raiding means money & prestige although I'll never say no to a small conquest somewhere to flex some muscles, especially so if there's a choice piece of land somewhere Do you have your eye on something specific yet?
Yes, I’ve been wanting ships for a while now. With the Swedes taking what is now Reval (Estonia), Uusimaa has been my other long-term ship-building target. It remains a possibility: now owned by Satakunta which has a large event army but is currently being defeated by the Swedish conquest of Suomi. Perhaps I should take Uusimaa before the Swedes get that too? Other options are reviewed at the end of the next chapter (noting I had already played the session through to its end point).
Revenge is complete for now. It will surely take Tuure years to recover! Speaking of which - may Halfdan slowly manage a recovery? Should he fail against Tyuey, likely not (though apparently all these defeats did leave him with enough prestige to motivate a tribal host, so he at least gets points for trying).
I must admit I was impressed that Halfdan was able to raise a decent host – but I thought he would have been better off freeing up his southern counties first, perhaps. Then again, given Tyuey’s war is for Kolumna, then that makes it the big warscore prize and therefore a more urgent target. And when he set out, he thought he’d have the numbers. We shall soon see how he fares …
Very true. And with Eilif’s realm prosperity ambition now fulfilled, the slate is clean. The next chapter will have more on possible options – and also some interesting information on the Monster.
Only if you a) believe in the stork myth and b) think the cited explanation of its origins might have been correct. So, I guess the answer for most of us will be ‘no’!
Thank you one and all for the comments and advice – always very much appreciated. The next chapter will be out within the next day: it covers the rest of the session I’d already played through and takes us to the next major decision point.
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Chapter 69: The Long View (14 December 896 – 8 April 897)
Chapter 69: The Long View (14 December 896 – 8 April 897)
Previously, on Blut und Schlacht … Eilif is now the father of a son – who he would like to make his heir; but his brother Dyre [the Mufasa of this story] wants the crown for himself! Jarl Tyueykezhut prosecutes his latest war on Könugarðr and a large battle beckons; the raid on Karelia finally begins to draw to a close; while Saksa the Monster keeps winning in war while destroying himself through hard living; and the Swedes continue to expand into Finnish lands.
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December 896
Eilif greeted news of the return of his brother Dyre from a raid with a pang of irritation and jealousy. He was forced to gather meagre pickings from poor neighbours in the frozen north while Dyre had the shipyards to at least launch modest raids in the true Viking way. If only he could grab those ships from his murderous brother. Or at least get some for himself!
By mid-December, Finland was a busy place. The Swedes had now tightened their grip on the lands of Onni of Satakunta, while on 17 December the tribal holding of Savo fell, delivering a small initial windfall. [Though the raiders would now have to wait until the beginning of the next month to start gathering the remaining of the gold.]
In the south, two more dramas played out. Halfdan’s new host was closing in on Kolumna (the object of the claim war) – but he would miss catching the smaller Yaroslavian army by just one day! Meanwhile, Tyueykezhut’s new host was marching down from the north, presumably to join up with the levies and then take the fight back to the Könugarðian host – commanded by High Chief Vechkas. Saksa had recruited yet another tribal army, seen heading south to Moramaren route to the Holy War with Bulgaria – which looked almost won anyway [warscore 98% to Saksa].
But Saksa himself was not a well man. His health seemed to be getting worse all the time. He was a stressed, depressed drunkard who had now acquired a wound and was vomiting. The cumulative toll on his well-being was significant. He may always win on the battlefield, but his personal life seemed to be a disaster. Eilif decided to just wait him out before he tried anything in that direction. Saksa would hopefully squander the ability to raise more hosts, who might then disperse if unemployed or Saksa died early (which seemed more likely by the month). But for now, he had a massive army and was not to be trifled with.
The normal business of ruling went on, with Eilif’s reputation for harsh but fair justice burnishing his image.
This event just fired as is, with no lead-up decision to take. A free lunch!
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January 897
Another new year began, and the Chancellor briefed King Eilif on his campaign in the south, which was now coming to a crescendo.
“My King, Halfdan’s men are now besieging Kolomna and will probably take it within four weeks. But that has given my men time to concentrate to the north into a single force. They will be in Moskva in eight days, then will find the best path to Kolumna.”
“I hope they take the hook around through Mozhaysk and don’t try to attack straight over the Oka River, Tyuey.” Strategy is actually one of Eilif’s strength – as a theorist anyway: he has been shielded from actual fighting and he never got to lead his mercenary band in combat.
“All I can do is trust in Kezhevat’s leadership and hope for the best. We have the numbers now, but that is never a guarantee.”
A week later:
“Ah, Hrolfr, do come in!” Eilif’s Marshal has come to the door of the strategy room and is beckoned in.
“Thank you, My King. I bring more news from the south, as I presume the Chancellor keeps you informed of his own war down there.”
“Yes, yes, he does. What have you to report, Hrolfr?”
“We only got the report of the battle as it was drawing to an end, but Vladimir of Bulgaria had sent a force north to contest with Barsbek of Chernigov, who has been raiding the Bulgarian heartland. By 2 January they had apparently been fighting hard for some time. But Barsbek managed to just outlast the Bulgarians, who a week later were seen fleeing south-west in disorder.”
“Another very busy neighbour, that Barsbek.”
“He certainly is, My King. We can’t really tell how many casualties either side suffered from the start, but it looks like they were substantial.”
“Well, I hope so, Hrolfr!”
As the month came to an end, Tyuey advised two things had happened in quick succession: The Könugarðians retook Kolumna and then the main Yaroslavian army met them outside the town gates. Tyuey’s men had a significant numerical advantage and had already put the enemy’s left flank to flight by 29 January. But they had attacked over the Oka River after all, so would suffer a tactical penalty as a result.
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February-March 897
As the two armies slugged it out in Kolumna, word was received that Vladimir had finally realised his Holy War against Mari was unsustainable and had met Saksa’s terms – no doubt including some reparations and the loss of prestige.
Unexpected good news was recorded by Gumarich der Schreiber on 20 February: Narva had converted to the Germanic faith! This was no doing of Eilif’s – it must have been Dyre’s efforts. This was something useful his brother had done, at least.
Two days later, Chancellor Tyueykezhut spoke privately to the king. He had a suggestion to make.
“My Liege, you govern a realm with different languages and customs and we must also deal with foreign realms on occasion. I think you might benefit from learning them.”
This was a well-targeted gambit, as Eilif was always sensitive to others drawing his intelligence into question and he welcomed ways to dissuade people he was a dullard.
“That’s an excellent idea, Tyuey! I’ll start straight away.”
“Very good, My King. And perhaps, when I have need of your assistance one day, you may look kindly on any little request I may make.”
“Of course, Tyuey, of course.”
After a savage battle where hundreds had died on each side after many days of fighting, the Yaroslavians proved victorious in Kolumna. The unfortunate Könugarðians fled south again, while Tyuey’s men went about the business of retaking Kolumna, which of course was needed to press the claim against Halfdan. It seemed Könugarðr just couldn’t take a trick!
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In the cold north, the raid on Savo was finally completed. The coffers were replenished again and Eilif’s prestige had never been higher. Tuure was humbled and rendered almost useless as a potential ally to Mari for some time to come, and Eilif felt justice had been done to avenge his early humiliation. The raiders marched back to Kexholm, their job done. For now, anyway.
At the same time, in Finland the Swedes had now occupied Uusimaa’s tribal holding: the war against Onni for Suomi must be approaching its conclusion.
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April 897
The raiders returned to Garðarikian soil on 8 April and were immediately stood down. The Huscarls were given orders to march back across to Chud: the initial view of Eilif was to quickly seize Romny, which should still be weakened from the recent raid. It formed part of the de jure Empire of Russia and might make a good first acquisition for the next round of expansion. But this order could be changed easily enough, as there were other possibilities.
But first, Eilif saw to some domestic responsibilities: he took the raising of his children seriously and wished them both to have the most effective education as they grew.
For his son Styrkar, for whom he had chosen a military path, he selected old Þorsteinn, the greatly experienced and loyal raider and commander, to act as Guardian.
For his daughter Skuld – his concubine Edla’s child – he followed the advice of the Þing[thanks @diskoerekto] and asked Queen Ingrid to take the child under her wing. Renowned as perhaps the smartest and most accomplished person in the realm, Ingrid was very pleased to do so – and thought the better of Eilif for having asked her.
Saksa the Monster, though recently victorious against the Bulgarians, was now weakened militarily and physically. The war won, his vast tribal hosts had dispersed. He now had a moderate sized personal levy of a little over 1,300 men, though he usually commanded the obedience of his many subordinate chiefs when he called them to arms, so his effective strength was greater than that. But over 5,000 warriors had melted into the countryside and he would not find it so easy to muster that many again. And, worse for the Monster, the wound he had apparently picked up in the fighting had reportedly become infected, further damaging his already very poor health. Eilif thought all he had to do was sit and wait, and the opportunity to grab some traditionally Garðarikian counties would eventually come.
The three border counties held by Mari that are part of the de jure Kingdom of Garðariki.
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The Wider World
Eilif called his council together for a major discussion on future plans. They started by reviewing a map recently acquired from Queen Mother Ingjerðr in Constantinople. It showed the known realms of Europa, the Mediterranean and Arabia.
Closer to home, the Chancellor had prepared a map showing de jure kingdoms – some (like Garðariki) already existed in fact; some (like Finland or Perm) only in theory. The current provisional target for expansion, Romny (High Chiefdom of Veps) was part of de jure Perm.
Finland had been a hot topic of discussion in Garðariki even back to the reign of Rurik. Some lands had been acquired there, but some at the Þing had counselled against gathering too many, lest on succession an ambitious pretender decided to form the Kingdom of Finland and thus break away from Garðariki entirely.
“My King, the realm at present has four of these de jure counties. It would take another five – that is, a majority of the 16 counties in the de jure realm – to theoretically be able to form it.”
“I see, so taking Uusimaa, for example – with its two shipyards – would be safe enough? Perhaps others as well?”
“I believe so, My King.”
“Check with the legal experts at the Þing anyway, could you?”
“Of course.”
Ch69 Q1: Finland.@diskoerekto et al – I could collect a few more Finnish territories and still be quite safe from the worst succession problems, couldn’t I? Other than the normal ones I’ll have to put up with until I can change to feudalism, anyway! Sweden taking Reval (formerly Kaleva) was irritating, though, and they’ll soon have Suomi.
“What of Barsbeck? He seems at his peak now but subjugating him would be a grand thing. What claims do we have against him?”
“He is strong My King,” interjected Hrolfr. “Fighting him would be glorious, but hard, at least at present. And he could call on additional hosts and his vassals to assist.”
“As to claims, My Liege,” chimed in Tyueykezhut, “we can push one on Sharukan or simple conquests on three of his other border counties. The only subjugation claim is that once-in-a-lifetime war available to you.”
“I see. And what is the view of the Council about attacking Barsbeck?”
It turned out there was a large majority in favour of attacking straight away! 'Not because it was easy, but because it was hard!’ The glory hounds that dominated the Council wanted the challenge, however dangerous. Eilif’s mother would vote in favour of whatever he sought. Only Queen Ingrid spoke against such a move.
“They are too strong right now, my husband. Why tackle him when he is at his strongest? Look what happened to your father in Karelia and to those who assailed the Monster.”
As usual, the Queen was the smartest and coolest head in the room. The glory hounds would have to calm themselves.
“All right them, I’d better get your views on the possible conquest of Romny then,” asked the King. He was still getting used to having to consult his ‘empowered’ council about such moves.
As it happened, the call was close. Most of the glory seekers considered it too meagre a challenge, unworthy of a great realm. Queen Ingrid approved, as it was simply a much easier target. With his mother’s support, Eilif looked to his Marshal.
“I have long argued that Romny is a good target – my first preference for conquest, actually. I would be in favour of attacking them, My King!”
Good old Hrolfr. It wasn’t yet put to a vote and other factors could intervene, but the indications were he might win a close vote on the matter.
Ch69 Q2: Council War Votes.So, my reading (but complete lack of experience) in council votes is that this is an indicative estimate and something could change (favour-calling, etc) in an actual vote. Is that broadly right?
“And what about Uusimaa? That is, the Council’s view of that as a target if we were to pursue it for its shipyards and to block further Swedish expansion?”
A war to conquer Uusimaa would have unanimous support: expansion of the realm for the glory hounds, and Onni was not too powerful for the pragmatic Queen to object. Though the large Finnish army currently in Ingria was a complication. Perhaps it would be a good idea to wait until after the Finns’ war with Sweden was over and see if the tribal army Onni had summoned disbanded.
“What claims could we make on Mari, Tyuey?”
“There are many, King Eilif. Setting aside the subjugation casus belli, there is a series of border conquest or de lure claims we could make – all of a one county at a time nature.”
“They are now far weaker than they were, My King – we could attack them now if we wished!” Hrolfr looked eager – and the rest of the council nodded in agreement – even Queen Ingrid.
The glory-seekers thought Mari was now a weaker proposition, but were keen to grow the realm, while Ingrid assessed Mari was now much weaker than Garðariki and so it was a safe prospect. Eilif was not so sure – Saksa’s vassal allies did not seem to be factored into their calculations.
“Thank you everyone,” the king concluded. “My current thinking remains to take Romny quickly, then Uusimaa afterwards. The Swedes will have to include a peace agreement with Onni to take Suomi, so that should prevent them taking Uusimaa for probably another five years. Chernigov will have to wait until a better opportunity arises. The same with Mari and claiming the eastern marches – as a minimum, we want Saksa to shuffle off then we can see what emerges from what we can hope is a messy succession.”
The king’s summary was met with nods of approval around the table.
“Tyuey, good luck with concluding your claim war on Kolumna,” Eilif was still considering whether to offload Vologda onto him but had held off that for now. He might use it when he needed to curry favour with the powerful Jarl. “As is our usual practice, please put these possibilities for near and longer term moves to the next Þing to seek their views.”
Ch69 Q3: Next Steps – External Targets.Immediate goals are, in rough order: Romny and Uusimaa. Later, whichever of Chernigov (the lifetime subjugation maybe) or Mari (conquering a border county in de jure Garðariki). And the calculations the AI makes with the Council members: I assume it only looks at the target’s demesne levy, rather than vassals who may respond in support. These are the external expansion targets, and you may have others you reckon worth pursuing. But there is another, darker possibility that Eilif did not see fit to broadcast in the Council meeting …
How do you solve a problem like Dyre?
As the council members left, Eilif kept looking at the map, thinking dark thoughts about his brother Dyre. Perhaps it was time to push things with him. Adopt a war focus and then challenge him to a duel? If he killed him, he was heir to most of Dyre’s holdings. Though he could lose (though he was now favourite to win), or Dyre may not be killed, or if he was Eilif would be branded a kin-slayer. But he wanted to do something before Dyre had an heir of his own, which would further complicate matters.
Or perhaps he could push the issue of the Dyre's murder plot: he had never formally asked Dyre to stop as he knew what the answer would be. But if he made a formal order as king to withdraw it and Dyre refused, he could legitimately seek to imprison him [I assume]. And if Dyre resisted, well … it would be war [I'm assuming again].
Then again, maybe he could just risk the chaos and opprobrium of revoking some of Dyre’s titles … starting with the shipyards of Narva? If Dyre refused, it would be war – and the act of revocation may persuade some of Eilif's vassals to refuse a call to arms if it became necessary. But it would give Eilif access to ships sooner rather than later and help to consolidate the realm.
Ch69 Q4: Imprisonment for Dyre?If I ask Dyre to end the plot against Eilif, he would almost certainly refuse. So, if he push it anyway and he does refuse, does that mean I could imprison him without the tyrant penalty? Then if I captured him (otherwise it’s war I presume, which is quite likely as I’d only have a 35% chance of imprisoning him according to the screen) and threw him into say the oubliette and he died there, would that count as kin-slaying? Can you revoke someone of all their titles if they’re in prison? Or is it still the same calculation?
PS: rereading this, Eilif does in fact have claims on all these titles: would the revocations there still 'cost him prestige and anger his other vassals'?
Revoking his main title (the Jarldom of Tver) or the chiefdom of Narva were also options, but these would alienate the vassals and cost prestige – although Eilif now had enough of that to be able to do it. He didn’t care about the opinion malus on Dyre himself, of course. Dyre would resist and there would be a revocation war – that could get messy.
In terms of Dyre’s current strength, part of the temptation to strike now was all the losses he had taken of late. Even if all Dyre’s vassal allies answered a call to war and none of Eilif’s did, he was still confident of being able to beat him – but as time went on, Dyre would regather strength. And maybe produce an heir. His main power base was Pskov: the two northern counties of Austerbotn and Kexholm were less powerful but would raise contingents.
Dyre’s two principal vassals were in the south: they may not become involved, but worst-case planning suggested their participation should be assumed. The two of them could raise another 850 troops between them. Compared to that, Eilif could call on just over 2,600 troops without calling his vassals to arms. That would still provide a clear numerical advantage – unless any other members of the realm decided to join Dyre’s cause.
Ch69 Q5: Dyre: Revocation and War?So let’s say war does break out because of a revocation or a failed imprisonment attempt, the odds don’t look too bad. But I’m only guessing at the possible additional implications. Have I missed any important ones? Any common contingencies in such situations I should be aware of? How severe and long-lasting might the effects be on Eilif’s reign, even if he does win? Any and all technical and strategic advice more than welcome! In essence, does now seem a good time to pull the trigger on Dyre and, if so, should it be duel, imprisonment or revocation first up?
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Questions
Ch69 Q1: Finland.@diskoerekto et al – I could collect a few more Finnish territories and still be quite safe from the worst succession problems, couldn’t I? Other than the normal ones I’ll have to put up with until I can change to feudalism, anyway! Sweden taking Reval (formerly Kaleva) was irritating, though, and they’ll soon have Suomi.
Ch69 Q2: Council Votes.So, my reading (but complete lack of experience) in council votes is that this is an indicative estimate and something could change (favour-calling, etc) in an actual vote. Is that broadly right?
Ch69 Q3: Next Steps – External Targets.Immediate goals are, in rough order: Romny and Uusimaa. Later, whichever of Chernigov (the lifetime subjugation maybe) or Mari (conquering a border county in de jure Garðariki). And the calculations the AI makes with the Council members: I assume it only looks at the target’s demesne levy, rather than vassals who may respond in support. These are the external expansion targets, and you may have others you reckon worth pursuing. But there is another, darker possibility that Eilif did not see fit to broadcast in the Council meeting …
Ch69 Q4: Imprisonment for Dyre?If I ask Dyre to end the plot against Eilif, he would almost certainly refuse. So, if he push it anyway and he does refuse, does that mean I could imprison him without the tyrant penalty? Then if I captured him (otherwise it’s war I presume, which is quite likely as I’d only have a 35% chance of imprisoning him according to the screen) and threw him into say the oubliette and he died there, would that count as kin-slaying? Can you revoke all of someone's titles with impunity if they’re in prison? Or is it still the same calculation? PS: rereading this, Eilif does in fact have claims on all these titles: would the revocations there still 'cost him prestige and anger his other vassals'?
Ch69 Q5: Dyre: Revocation and War?So let’s say war does break out because of a revocation or a failed imprisonment attempt, the odds don’t look too bad. But I’m only guessing at the possible additional implications. Have I missed any important ones? Any common contingencies in such situations I should be aware of? How severe and long-lasting might the effects be on Eilif’s reign, even if he does win? Any and all technical and strategic advice more than welcome! In essence, does now seem a good time to pull the trigger on Dyre and, if so, should it be duel, imprisonment or revocation first up?
ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ
Eilif has much to think about and is particularly interested in the thoughts of the Þing on these great issues. He will be spending much time poring over maps, and reports of dispositions, whatever direction he may turn in.
When it comes to Dyre, Eilif is more likely to be drinking the red cordial! The Queen is the one who normally tries to talk him down from the red mist.
Eilif greeted news of the return of his brother Dyre from a raid with a pang of irritation and jealousy. He was forced to gather meagre pickings from poor neighbours in the frozen north while Dyre had the shipyards to at least launch modest raids in the true Viking way. If only he could grab those ships from his murderous brother. Or at least get some for himself!
By mid-December, Finland was a busy place. The Swedes had now tightened their grip on the lands of Onni of Satakunta, while on 17 December the tribal holding of Savo fell, delivering a small initial windfall. [Though the raiders would now have to wait until the beginning of the next month to start gathering the remaining of the gold.]
But Saksa himself was not a well man. His health seemed to be getting worse all the time. He was a stressed, depressed drunkard who had now acquired a wound and was vomiting. The cumulative toll on his well-being was significant. He may always win on the battlefield, but his personal life seemed to be a disaster. Eilif decided to just wait him out before he tried anything in that direction. Saksa would hopefully squander the ability to raise more hosts, who might then disperse if unemployed or Saksa died early (which seemed more likely by the month). But for now, he had a massive army and was not to be trifled with.
As the month came to an end, Tyuey advised two things had happened in quick succession: The Könugarðians retook Kolumna and then the main Yaroslavian army met them outside the town gates. Tyuey’s men had a significant numerical advantage and had already put the enemy’s left flank to flight by 29 January. But they had attacked over the Oka River after all, so would suffer a tactical penalty as a result.
In the cold north, the raid on Savo was finally completed. The coffers were replenished again and Eilif’s prestige had never been higher. Tuure was humbled and rendered almost useless as a potential ally to Mari for some time to come, and Eilif felt justice had been done to avenge his early humiliation. The raiders marched back to Kexholm, their job done. For now, anyway.
The raiders returned to Garðarikian soil on 8 April and were immediately stood down. The Huscarls were given orders to march back across to Chud: the initial view of Eilif was to quickly seize Romny, which should still be weakened from the recent raid. It formed part of the de jure Empire of Russia and might make a good first acquisition for the next round of expansion. But this order could be changed easily enough, as there were other possibilities.
you're welcome and if there is a character with multiple stats over 12 and has a 4 star education trait, he/she could make a good dedicated teacher. As far as I remember though the 4 star own education is more importan if a person with both of the qualifications cannot be found.
Closer to home, the Chancellor had prepared a map showing de jure kingdoms – some (like Garðariki) already existed in fact; some (like Finland or Perm) only in theory. The current provisional target for expansion, Romny (High Chiefdom of Veps) was part of de jure Perm.
Good to take provinces from the de jure Empire of Rus. Once we have 53 provinces we can declare the Empire. We have around 27 I guess? 21 Rus and 6 Ruthenian more or less. With the once in a lifetime thingy we will get a bunch fast. I wonder which ruler will be the one to do that, I hope soon
Ch69 Q1: Finland.@diskoerekto et al – I could collect a few more Finnish territories and still be quite safe from the worst succession problems, couldn’t I? Other than the normal ones I’ll have to put up with until I can change to feudalism, anyway! Sweden taking Reval (formerly Kaleva) was irritating, though, and they’ll soon have Suomi.
Yes you can get 4 more without risking anything, and I'm not sure what is the size of the risk anyway. I mean having less than 5 imeans zero risk in terms of auto Kingdom creation, but what I don't know is having more than 5; is it 1% risk or 50% risk or 100% risk? Best is to collect only 4 I guess?
The following is from the wiki:
Code:
In addition, Elective Gavelkind has several unique features for junior heirs.
First, on succession in kingdoms and empires, new kingdoms might be created for junior heirs. The outgoing ruler must control 51% of the de jure kingdom and meet any other specific requirements for creating that kingdom. Since many kingdoms have additional AI requirements, mostly related to culture, this means player realms are more vulnerable to split than AI realms!
So even if we have more, if the land is divided between multiple people it seems we can get away with it. But as with many things related to inheritance this is a bit fuzzy.
I say Uusimaa first, and see what we can get next. Suomi and Uusimaa was my 2 main targets along with Narva, and whatever we get until we get to the kingdom creation risk province limit. Suomi seems to be going, so maybe Satakunta instead of that for the second one? By the way, what was the CB Sweden used? I hope they don't get all the provinces there.
“They are too strong right now, my husband. Why tackle him when he is at his strongest? Look what happened to your father in Karelia and to those who assailed the Monster.”
Makes sense, in the meanwhile we can pick one province realms and grow, flexing our muscles. I hope Barsbek also grows so that when we subjugate him we subjugate a bigger realm. I'm not sure if there's anything we can do to make him more active, but if there's we should. He'll both deplete his collection of money, prestige and piety calling warrior bands and be a juicier realm to add to ours.
Ch69 Q2: Council War Votes.So, my reading (but complete lack of experience) in council votes is that this is an indicative estimate and something could change (favour-calling, etc) in an actual vote. Is that broadly right?
“There are many, King Eilif. Setting aside the subjugation casus belli, there is a series of border conquest or de lure claims we could make – all of a one county at a time nature.”
“They are now far weaker than they were, My King – we could attack them now if we wished!” Hrolfr looked eager – and the rest of the council nodded in agreement – even Queen Ingrid.
“Thank you everyone,” the king concluded. “My current thinking remains to take Romny quickly, then Uusimaa afterwards. The Swedes will have to include a peace agreement with Onni to take Suomi, so that should prevent them taking Uusimaa for probably another five years. Chernigov will have to wait until a better opportunity arises. The same with Mari and claiming the eastern marches – as a minimum, we want Saksa to shuffle off then we can see what emerges from what we can hope is a messy succession.”
Ch69 Q3: Next Steps – External Targets.Immediate goals are, in rough order: Romny and Uusimaa. Later, whichever of Chernigov (the lifetime subjugation maybe) or Mari (conquering a border county in de jure Garðariki). And the calculations the AI makes with the Council members: I assume it only looks at the target’s demesne levy, rather than vassals who may respond in support. These are the external expansion targets, and you may have others you reckon worth pursuing. But there is another, darker possibility that Eilif did not see fit to broadcast in the Council meeting …
Good thinking. I'd say using the subjugate on Saksa would be wasting it since he only has 3 provinces that we really want. In contrast, Barsbek's provinces are all in the de jure Empire of Rus. When Saksa dies of his healthy lifestyle and his realm shatters, those 3 provinces even can come to our realm themselves just like the Konugardarian ones through our active vassals. Or if those Rus provinces become independent rulers we can just ASK them to swear fealty to us since they're in our de jure kingdom (what I learned last episode )
Ch69 Q4: Imprisonment for Dyre?If I ask Dyre to end the plot against Eilif, he would almost certainly refuse. So, if he push it anyway and he does refuse, does that mean I could imprison him without the tyrant penalty?
Then if I captured him (otherwise it’s war I presume, which is quite likely as I’d only have a 35% chance of imprisoning him according to the screen) and threw him into say the oubliette and he died there, would that count as kin-slaying?
PS: rereading this, Eilif does in fact have claims on all these titles: would the revocations there still 'cost him prestige and anger his other vassals'?
This should work, but I have a feeling the vassals can still find something to get pissed off at. I'm thinking once one is a traitor and in jail stripping him off his titles should be free of hassle, but even if not at least he wouldn't be able to father children from the oubliette?
Ch69 Q5: Dyre: Revocation and War?So let’s say war does break out because of a revocation or a failed imprisonment attempt, the odds don’t look to bad. But I’m only guessing at the possible additional implications. Have I missed any important ones? Any common contingencies in such situations I should be aware of? How severe and long-lasting might the effects be on Eilif’s reign, even if he does win? Any and all technical and strategic advice more than welcome! In essence, does now seem a good time to pull the trigger on Dyre and, if so, should it be duel, imprisonment or revocation first up?
On the long run, all characters will be dead and every bad deed will be forgotten. I mean, nothing unbearable will happen but there still will be headaches. I'd say no to duel, it made more sense before Eilif had heirs but now if Eilif loses (having better chance doesn't mean Dyre has zero chance) it will just be another succession where stuff gets divided and also Eilif's once in a lifetime CB wasted before he used it. Imprisonement sounds good to me if you put on your mind to finish this now. Revocation in my opinion can get messy.
Doing nothing and waiting for some ill to befall Dyre, plotting to kill him or just waiting until Dyre peacefully dies and his eventual heir being on good terms with you are all other options.
If you put him in the obuillete it will not count for kin-slaying. If he refuses to end his plot you can imprison him without penalty(If it is successful) but I dont think you will be able to revoke his titles without tyranny normally, but I actually think you having claims would allow you to do that while only angering him and not your vassals.
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