Medieval games both historical and fantasy were more popular than that set in other periods?

[diegosimeone]

Surprised you did not mention Daphnis & Chloe. That's probably the most romantic story from antiquity.

It's a 'Roman' era one, not an 'ancient Greek' one.


As for the rest, I think we have a difference in what we're talking about. You're describing me why Arthurian and Carolingian stories have had success. I'm not very knowledgable on the subject and I'd say that your take on it convinces me. But it doesn't really answer my question.

My questions is not why modern literature (and in extention, gaming, which is the thread's subject) is that way. My question is why was the setting in the medieval in the first place. You're sort of answering that with your final sentence.

My initial question is why the fantasy setting feels 'better' in Medieval times than in Antiquity. Your response was the romance of it, which I still am not convinced that is in any way superior to anything before or after. I find the matter subjective.


P.S: Can we be certain that the Arthurian legend is not based on an older Celtic myth?

 

[Graf Zeppelin]

Don Quixote is all about mocking Medieval nostalgia for good reason - the Arthurian & Carolingian chivalric literature were at the height of popularity in the 16th C. The catalog of Don Quixote's library was real.

Later bursts & re-bursts were never as dominant. Scott's Ivanhoe was popular, but not nearly as popular as his Waverly novels set in the modern Highlands. Weimar classicism far outshone their medievalist experiments. The Victorian Medievalists was never more than a small oddball community.

Hmmm you certainly have a point.

 

[Sabotage13]

Modern settings are still very common in games. "Escapism and anti-modern romanticism" doesnt explain why game designers choose that spcific period to escape to.

But it does. Anything Renaissance or later is too infused with modernism, seeing as in public consciousness that era is seen as the beginning of the modern age with the (perceived, not actual) invention of humanism, rationalism and individualism.

The medieval period is seen as one untouched by this modernism, a period where people were not alienated and still knew their place in society. Thus, the fascination for the Medievalesque is born from a a longing for a period that existed before modern ideas. This is the same place from which people draw their attraction to Reactionary beliefs and Blood-and-Soil Nationalism.

 

[Kovax]

Tolkien seems to have drawn more inspiration from ancient Greek and Norse mythology than from anything medieval. The setting is NOT specifically "dark" or "middle" ages. Most more recent fantasy seems to draw on both Tolkien and older Arthurian tales, mixing them into some poorly thought-through medieval/fantasy hybrid, with elves and other imaginary creatures, along with magic, co-existing with medieval-style castles and high-medieval plate armor.

Dragons very possibly entered European literature through two sources, initially through contact by Crusaders with "water monitors", large reptiles found in North Africa. Their appearance was heavily distorted in the painted image of "St. George and the Dragon", thanks to the artist never having actually seen such a creature (images of lions in that period are often ridiculously wrong as well). The flicking tongue of a monitor lizard could easily be mistaken for flames at a distance. Later "dragon" influences would be via trade routes between Europe and China, where winged dragons were a regular feature in art and myth.

As said, going back to the most recent period before detailed records and religious restrictions is the simplest solution. Once the initial idea of medieval fantasy took root, others piled onto the bandwagon.

 

[diegosimeone]

Tolkien's influence is far more Norse than Greek. There is like a small hint of Greece, while for a random reader it may seem like a twist of a Norse legend with perhaps a British Celtic medieval influence. At least that's how I first thought of it.

 

[Kovax]

Tolkien's influence is far more Norse than Greek. There is like a small hint of Greece, while for a random reader it may seem like a twist of a Norse legend with perhaps a British Celtic medieval influence. At least that's how I first thought of it.

Note that in Tolkien's works, the elven land of Lorien (a region in Greece where a rich lode of silver was discovered, and used to pay for a fleet to defeat the Persians) is bordered by the river Silverlode. The sacred white horses used by the King of Persia were known as the Meares(spelling?), and Shadowfax was mentioned to be one of such a breed. I don't recall most of them anymore, but there was a long list of Homeric and Greek references in the Lord of the Rings and other related Tolkien books. Tolkien was a literary scholar and professor, with a strong interest in ancient Greek mythology, as well as Norse mythology, and used tidbits from both sources with regularity.

 

[Eusebio]

Note that in Tolkien's works, the elven land of Lorien (a region in Greece where a rich lode of silver was discovered, and used to pay for a fleet to defeat the Persians) is bordered by the river Silverlode. The sacred white horses used by the King of Persia were known as the Meares(spelling?), and Shadowfax was mentioned to be one of such a breed. I don't recall most of them anymore, but there was a long list of Homeric and Greek references in the Lord of the Rings and other related Tolkien books. Tolkien was a literary scholar and professor, with a strong interest in ancient Greek mythology, as well as Norse mythology, and used tidbits from both sources with regularity.

Well sure Tolkein used Homer in some places but he was a professor of medieval philology at Oxford.

 

[Avernite]

Note that in Tolkien's works, the elven land of Lorien (a region in Greece where a rich lode of silver was discovered, and used to pay for a fleet to defeat the Persians) is bordered by the river Silverlode. The sacred white horses used by the King of Persia were known as the Meares(spelling?), and Shadowfax was mentioned to be one of such a breed. I don't recall most of them anymore, but there was a long list of Homeric and Greek references in the Lord of the Rings and other related Tolkien books. Tolkien was a literary scholar and professor, with a strong interest in ancient Greek mythology, as well as Norse mythology, and used tidbits from both sources with regularity.

Let's not forget Numenor was also named Atalantë (AKA sort-of Atlantis).

And, of course, the background and mythology is knee-deep in Christian thought too.

But to me, LotR was a weird mix of modern/Victorian (the Shire/Hobbits), Classical (Gondor) and Dark Ages (Rohan). The medieval factor is very low compared to the modern or classical (both Gondor and Rohan have about 1 castle/fortress, not 1000 like any halfway decent medieval setting; the battles are fought between the armies of Gondor, Rohan, and Mordor - they have their constituents, but the Haradrim do not fight for the lord of Harad, and the knights of Dol Amroth only follow their Prince, they are still beholden primarily to Gondor and the Steward).

 

[Arnulf Floyd]

Middle ages were culturally and artistically inferior to modern ages which give us music both classical and popular also literature, paintings and sculptures. I enjoy humanism, rationalism and individualism because them were essential to modern society. LOTR is less medieval in books compared to film adaptions and other fantasy realms in gaming such as Pendor and Perisno. I am sure as anquity is everyone's second favourite period and many games were set during classical Greece and rise of Rome. All pre-modern eras were funny for games, books and movies.

 

[Eusebio]

Middle ages were culturally and artistically inferior to modern ages

Nah.

 

[Antediluvian Monster]

Tolkien seems to have drawn more inspiration from ancient Greek and Norse mythology than from anything medieval. The setting is NOT specifically "dark" or "middle" ages.

I'd put Tolkien's mythological infuence mostly in early medieval Anglo-Saxon mythosphere. So there is Anglo-Saxon, Norse, Celtic and Christian. The most important one after those is probably Finnish, which was influence for major story motifs in Silmarillion (theft of Simlaris/Sampo, story of Turin/Kullervo).

Dragons very possibly entered European literature through two sources, initially through contact by Crusaders with "water monitors", large reptiles found in North Africa. Their appearance was heavily distorted in the painted image of "St. George and the Dragon", thanks to the artist never having actually seen such a creature (images of lions in that period are often ridiculously wrong as well). The flicking tongue of a monitor lizard could easily be mistaken for flames at a distance. Later "dragon" influences would be via trade routes between Europe and China, where winged dragons were a regular feature in art and myth.

There's a flying, fire breathing dragon with a treasure hoard in the pre-Crusade Anglo-Saxon poem Beowulf.

 

[Henry IX]

Another point about the Medieval period as a fictional setting is it is (perceived to be) more individualistic than the Classical. The popular image of the knight is an adventurer going on a quest on his own. The classical period is seen to be one of states and armies with the standard legionary or hoplite essentially fungible (being able to be swapped for any other).

In contrast, even in medieval armies, the individual is seen as paramount. Mallory, for example, spends an enormous amount of time dealing with the acts and identity of the individuals involved.

Even in Homer, who focussed his story on the acts and deeds of a small number of heroes, there is a strong sense of massed soldiery. In addition, the heroes tend to be kings leading armies. By contrast Mallory's heroes are simple knights distinguished by their character and actions rather than their birth (even Arthur is raised as a normal knight not as a king).

All of this makes for easier stories and gameplay - it is far easier to focus on an individual with relative freedom of choice, with whom we can identify, than a superman. This is also why most modern military fiction focuses on 'special force' type operations - that is the only situation in which a soldier has relative freedom of action, and individual heroics are critical to the outcome.