Why didn't the Kriegsmarine send Bismarck Battleship to intercept at Dunkirk in 1940? It could sail by the coastline and got Luftwaffe's support. Instead, it was sung in a risky mission all by itself at the open sea in the Atlantic in May 1941.
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Dunkirk happens May 1940.
Bismarck didn’t begin sea trials until August, 1940.
Foolish to send a capital ship into that small a space, especially when the crew has not even begun training.
Bismarck didn’t begin sea trials until August, 1940.
Foolish to send a capital ship into that small a space, especially when the crew has not even begun training.
It was a valid use of battleships at the time I think, especially if there's no large fleet to group up with.
Churchill did something similar by sending 2 battleships to the pacific theatre, which were promptly sunk by the Japanese
Churchill did something similar by sending 2 battleships to the pacific theatre, which were promptly sunk by the Japanese
As noted, the dates don't work for Bismarck to actually be ready in time.
And If she had somehow been ready and gone, the Royal Navy would have sunk her: they had plenty of battleships capable of doing so (as shown by when they actually fought). It would have just resulted in the German navy losing the rest of their major surface combatants (they'd already lost a bunch in Norway).
Churchill's Force Z didn't expect to run into the trouble it did; any German commander knew exactly what would happen if the Kriegsmarine sought out a surface engagement in the British Channel.
And If she had somehow been ready and gone, the Royal Navy would have sunk her: they had plenty of battleships capable of doing so (as shown by when they actually fought). It would have just resulted in the German navy losing the rest of their major surface combatants (they'd already lost a bunch in Norway).
Churchill's Force Z didn't expect to run into the trouble it did; any German commander knew exactly what would happen if the Kriegsmarine sought out a surface engagement in the British Channel.
Well, there is at least one German naval operation with a tactical success completed in the English Channel during the WWII by the battleships Scharnhorst and Gneisenau and the heavy cruiser Prinz Eugen despite of the small space and the overwhelming British threat in the Channel, the Channel Dash.
In late 1941 Adolf Hitler ordered German warships in Brest to run the British blockade and return to home waters through the Channel to counter a possible British invasion of Norway. All three warships were damaged in this operation, but still they made to home ports.
In late 1941 Adolf Hitler ordered German warships in Brest to run the British blockade and return to home waters through the Channel to counter a possible British invasion of Norway. All three warships were damaged in this operation, but still they made to home ports.
Note that they achieved surprise, the Luftwaffe had prepared ample air cover in advance and the whole thing took about two days. At Dunkirk, German naval interference surely was something that the British would not be surprised by, the RAF was hard at the Luftwaffe's throats and the whole thing took well over a week.
I totally agree. At Dunkirk, if the Germans were on to the sea it wouldn't have ended well for them. Even during the Channel Dash in 1941 it was a huge German gamble. Scharnhorst was put out of action for a year, Gneisenau never sailed again and Prinz Eugen spent the rest of the war in the Baltic Sea.
Calling Sharnhorst and Gneisenau battleships is a huge euphemism for two ships that would have been undergunned even at the Skakerrag battle.
Because the Krigsmarine was the service with the most brain left. they knew a fire control system is somewhat important for a Battleship which Bismark lacked at the point of Dunkirk next to many other things.
No, British battleships couldnt sink her. They fired 3000 shots at her and scored more than 400 hits, most at close range and she was still afloat when they ran low on ammo
No, British battleships couldnt sink her. They fired 3000 shots at her and scored more than 400 hits, most at close range and she was still afloat when they ran low on ammo
It indeed took hours of shooting to sink her, but only a few minutes of sustained fire to render her incapable of combat, which is rather more to the point.
The channel dash seems fairly irrelevant here- it showed that, with a great deal of luck, the Germans were able to avoid making contact with the British, but under these circumstances, the British would have known exactly where to send their ships to meet them.
That was also my first thought discussing German capital ships in the Channel - the Channel Dash. Cerberus was a tactical victory at the cost of a strategic threat to the Atlantic convoys that required the Royal Navy to keep a close eye on them at all times; only to forestall a nonexistant threat to Norway. But it proves heavy warships moving at great speed using surprise and the elements under a blanket of fighters can evade and make the Kessel Run in under 12 parsecs. (provided they don't hit mines along the way)
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HMS Rodney most definitely could, and did, destroy Bismarck with her 16 inch guns. One of Rodney's shells even hit the face of one of Bismarck's turrets with such force that it went through then blew out the back of the turret. The reason Bismarck did not sink, even after being thoroughly destroyed, was because Battleships are very buoyant, not because the British shells were failing to penetrate her armor.No, British battleships couldnt sink her. They fired 3000 shots at her and scored more than 400 hits, most at close range and she was still afloat when they ran low on ammo
Does not change the fact slightly that they couldnt sink her. And sinking is what he said.
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Lol, the entire superstructure has been destroyed, and most of Bismarck's turrets blown apart, and you act like its some kind of victory that some piece of wreckage didnt sink for a few hours. All battleships are built very buoyant. At that point Bismarck was little more than some flotsam.
I didnt say anything about a victory, nor did I chalenge that she was incapable of combat or anything else then a floating wreck after 400 hits. What I chalenge is that British battleships could sink her like he said.
Oh it was a humorous statement since you couldnt figure that out.
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Due to use of spaced armour array where the main armoured deck was an additional component (to the belt armour) in vertical protection German battleships were the only WW2 battleships that were built to be protected (in terms of machinery spaces, magazines and buoyancy) at extremely close ranges. British did put one shell into her citadel at longer range, but they mostly shot at her from close up where Bismarck's protection could have defeated British shells and the hits tended to be in the upper areas of a ship rather than at waterline to begin with.
You are right that this wasn't a great boon for an immobilized, demoralized and solitary ship, particularly as her armament was disabled quickly (and indeed that armament was not unusually well protected).