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Aha, but these are pagan Norsemen! Apart from that, they’re only talking/making snide jokes or double entendres about sex: very British indeed. Ooh, they are awful! Matron!
1) As others have mentioned, there are options, including forcing one side or the other to surrender if a war starts.
2) I know of no way to do it.
3) Strange, I hadn't noticed that before.
4) According to the ancient runes, it's manageable, but not insignificant.
2) I know of no way to do it.
3) Strange, I hadn't noticed that before.
4) According to the ancient runes, it's manageable, but not insignificant.
The Sixteenth Þing of Eilif’s Reign – June 904 (a summary of advice from Chapter 83)
The Sixteenth Þing of Eilif’s Reign – June 904 (a summary of advice from Chapter 83)
General Comments
A general note up front: because there’s another chapter to put up to complete the last session, any advice I implement from this Þing can’t be implemented in-game before August 904.
A well-deserved accolade.
Re money: Quite so, and that is exactly what Eilif starts doing with it. More should flow in once he can get to raiding again.
Ch 83 Q1: Fabrications against vassals. Just a quick technical and tactical question. Is there anything I either can or should do (if I have reason to quash it) to stop a vassal’s vassal trying to fabricate a claim? Or is it just something for the direct vassal to manage at this point? And (as a follow-up) if it comes to a rebellion, must I let them fight it out or if I wished could I offer to aid one side or the other?
Ch 83 Q2: Vassal ally placement in battle. I still find it a bit strange you can’t dictate which flank they appear on, unless there’s some way of doing so I’ve never heard of or discovered yet. I’m assuming you just have to take what you’re given, but if there is some way of dictating it, I’d be rapt!
Ch 83 Q3: Names in army mouse-overs. This is a very small and arcane point, but if you look at the mouse-over message for the tactical advantage for the Garðarikians in the above screenshot, it says ‘Chief Vihavald of Ingria will get …”. He’s not in the army (checked all the subordinate units too). Which he shouldn’t be, because his is on duty as Marshal so not available for field command. So (as Marshal) is that why his name is used here? For a second I thought I had another commander turning up where he wasn’t meant to be …
Ch 83 Q4: How bad is gout? Just wondering how serious gout tends to be in-game. Is it a slow killer, or more of a continuing discomfort? How badly might Ingrid’s days be curtailed and is there any cure or will it just now persist until it or something else claims her?
Thanks everyone for your support and advice! With the recent wars, this is the first full thing Eilif has held in approaching two years. The next one will likely be bigger and more strategic in nature. And as we approach some in-game milestones (like Norse Reform, trying to get laws passed, managing an expanded realm, succession planning, progress to feudalism and perhaps empire-building, I’ll once more be getting out of any relative comfort zone and back into mysteries and challenges for a newbie player!
Now starting work on writing up the new chapter, with the images already basically done.
ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ
General Comments
A general note up front: because there’s another chapter to put up to complete the last session, any advice I implement from this Þing can’t be implemented in-game before August 904.
Every so often. There hasn’t been anything outstanding there for years, but Eilif will have another look when the war with Noregr ends.
I think the Q&As there have run that one to ground nicely: thanks guys!This week I’m on holiday and only read from my phone so I missed the existence of the ornaments there. Well, at least a good mind exercise this has been
Exactly. I was a bit mortified when that happened, but decided to run with it. We did have success before get a Slovensky on-side, so thought I’d set Eilif a little mini-challenge there!A Slovenskiy as a spymaster? What can go wrong
I tend to like to strike and keep momentum going as long as the numbers look reasonable. Sometimes it gets me into trouble, but seems to work more often than not. I really wanted to get this war done before something awful happened. And want to get as much done as possible under Eilif before a potentially messy succession tears everything asunder!
I was very happy with how that turned out. Fortune favoured the brave this time.
No, they want to fight till the bitter end.
Yes, though I want quality. I’m also wondering whether at this stage any more heirs for Eilif would just complicate the next succession? Interested in any views people may have.
A likely scenario! It must have been heavy drinking for this appointment to go through.Misclick on your part - in-game perhaps Eilif was drinking?
I shall treasure it always
... And put it to good use...
A well-deserved accolade.Yes, Dovre has broken them militarily. But something can always go wrong.
Re money: Quite so, and that is exactly what Eilif starts doing with it. More should flow in once he can get to raiding again.
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Ch 83 Q1: Fabrications against vassals. Just a quick technical and tactical question. Is there anything I either can or should do (if I have reason to quash it) to stop a vassal’s vassal trying to fabricate a claim? Or is it just something for the direct vassal to manage at this point? And (as a follow-up) if it comes to a rebellion, must I let them fight it out or if I wished could I offer to aid one side or the other?
Right. And does memory serve me right that insisting on a peace agreement as liege means a prestige sacrifice? Both are foolish Catholics ;>) but the incumbent likes me a little more. Will bear in mind re possible imprisonment if it comes to that.If you want to, you can freely try imprisoning him, tell him to stop the plotting, or leave him be. He only wants to fabricate a claim.
If he gets his claim, he still needs to push it, although then you can ask either the attacker to accept a white peace or the defender to surrender.
But if you don't care for Arnbjörn (who's also a foolish Catholic after all), then imprison him. If it fails, he flees into exile (as he can't revolt against Eilif, only against his direct liege), if it doesn't you have either a nice new living cash reserve or another sacrifice ready for the blòt
I think you’re right about the cost – in prestige if not in gold.
I have all the DLC up to but not including Jade Dragon, nor the latest patch (didn’t want to risk destroying the current game, which already happened once). This was a boit more academic: any threats to Eilif’s titles will be dealt with far more quickly – and harshly!
Thanks.
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Ch 83 Q2: Vassal ally placement in battle. I still find it a bit strange you can’t dictate which flank they appear on, unless there’s some way of doing so I’ve never heard of or discovered yet. I’m assuming you just have to take what you’re given, but if there is some way of dictating it, I’d be rapt!
Interesting little nugget re multiple levies. A few of them must have had them, as in the following battle most but not quite all ended up in the centre. Good to know.
Yep, that seems to be the firm consensus.
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Ch 83 Q3: Names in army mouse-overs. This is a very small and arcane point, but if you look at the mouse-over message for the tactical advantage for the Garðarikians in the above screenshot, it says ‘Chief Vihavald of Ingria will get …”. He’s not in the army (checked all the subordinate units too). Which he shouldn’t be, because his is on duty as Marshal so not available for field command. So (as Marshal) is that why his name is used here? For a second I thought I had another commander turning up where he wasn’t meant to be …
Thanks, that clarifies it.
It’s my job in this AAR to dig up strange and arcane little aspects of the game that even seasoned players haven’t heard of or noticed before!
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Ch 83 Q4: How bad is gout? Just wondering how serious gout tends to be in-game. Is it a slow killer, or more of a continuing discomfort? How badly might Ingrid’s days be curtailed and is there any cure or will it just now persist until it or something else claims her?
Right. The treatment she’s getting at the moment is helping a little, though not counteracting all its effects.
If it’s not the player character but another being treated, do I get any visibility of that, other than the little treatment icon that appears in the NPC’s profile? I’m assuming here I don’t get event choices etc if it’s only the spouse.
Hmm, yes, I was a little worried about the compounded traits.
I’ll just have to wait and see what happens to her now, assuming I don’t get a detailed say in treatment choices.
Looks like I just have to hope that treatment isn’t botched and/or that the compounding effect of other health issues for Ingrid don’t do her in.
ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ
Thanks everyone for your support and advice! With the recent wars, this is the first full thing Eilif has held in approaching two years. The next one will likely be bigger and more strategic in nature. And as we approach some in-game milestones (like Norse Reform, trying to get laws passed, managing an expanded realm, succession planning, progress to feudalism and perhaps empire-building, I’ll once more be getting out of any relative comfort zone and back into mysteries and challenges for a newbie player!
Now starting work on writing up the new chapter, with the images already basically done.
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well, this thinking makes a game a fun one
this might be more layered than it looks. If we cannot secure an empire level title (or feudalism) before a succession, a lot is going to be at the hands of the gods (or random number generator). Less heirs might mean less fracturing, but also can mean a strong pretender with more land and power. More heirs might seem like more fracturing but it can be a good thing as they'll be less likely to declare independence and even if they do easier to contend with.
but let's hope we can declare the Rus empire before that
As far as I know her being in the court, and Eilif's wife, you should get visibilty (and choice) of which treatment to take but I might be mistaken.
*dancing smiley*
Chapter 84: Peace is in the Heir (21 June – 10 August 904)
Chapter 84: Peace is in the Heir (21 June – 10 August 904)
AuthAAR’s Note: this represents the second (and final) instalment from the last play session, so played before the recent Þing was convened. Then we’ll be back up to date again.
Previously, on Blut und Schlacht … The great Battle of Dovre had effectively broken the back of Norwegian resistance, but they were yet to surrender; King Eilif’s public successes are counterbalanced with worries in his domestic life, after the death of his concubine and Spymaster Elin, then with gout and stress making his wife Queen Ingrid ill, and the obstinate refusal of his lover (the other Elin, his brother Dyre’s wife) to meet for an assignation; the defensive pacts against him vary in strength, but will they matter? And the festering sore of the Bloody Bishop polluting the hallowed halls of the Temple of Uppsala remains untreated – for now.
June 904
Fresh from the ‘Summer Þing’ of June 904 and with his forces in close pursuit of the Norwegians, Eilif gave his rival King Olafr II of Noregr a last chance before the next battle for him to submit to the claim on Naumadal and the Holy Site of Mære, which Eilif asserted “must be properly safeguarded against the encroachments of infidel Christian missionaries”. Olafr could then “concentrate on your true enemies, the Christians waging holy war against you from Luxembourg.”
He readied a messenger for his opponent, hoping to prevent the “needless effusion of more Norse blood in what will surely be another devastating victory for Garðariki.”
The messenger never even made it into the presence of Olafr: he refused even to negotiate. [Not actually sent in-game, there being no point.]
While there was no setback in the field, as Olafr’s much-reduced army was chased down, Eilif was not pleased by the actions of his very own Marshal, Chief Vihavald of Ingria, late that June. It may not have been a serious threat (certainly not as serious as the Independence faction being led by the former Chief Frirek of Ghent), but … the principle of the thing! Eilif consoled himself, thinking: Ah well, chiefs will be chiefs!
Grimr had made good time marching from Finland through neutral Häme and by the end of June was poised to pounce upon the other Norwegian army currently trying to flee north from Austerbotn.
That same day, the new Spymaster (via fast courier from Constantinople) made an extraordinary admission to his liege.
He quickly had Sumarliði write two letters: one to Tihomir praising his honesty and formally asking him to disavow Nikita’s plot. The second, more terse, to Eirikr demanding the same. Chancellor Buðli had recommended doing so even though he was likely to refuse, as that would give Eilif just cause (after all, he had a nickname to live up to) to arrest the troublesome former king if he did so. He could do little about Nikita (also a member of the Independence faction) at present, but tolerate him - and perhaps hope he suffered a fatal battlefield injury in the war against Noregr!
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July 904
The responses from Tihomir and Eirikr soon arrived – and could not have been more different in tone. But, in their ways, both were equally welcome news to Eilif, who had been hoping Eirikr would refuse. Habeus corpus, he thought to himself. And in writing, no less!
Marshal Vihavald was quickly summoned.
And speaking of war, as these political events were transpiring in Nygarðr, Þorsteinn had caught up with Olafr in Hålogaland, with battle commencing on 1 July. Despite the advantages of the ground, the now bedraggled Norwegian army was badly outmatched. After just six days, all serious fighting was over and the pursuit had begun.
At the height of a balmy northern summer, Jarl Buðli sat with his uncle the king under a shady tree one afternoon. They celebrated with a cold drink and a haunch of venison. News had just been received from the Electors of Garðariki.
[Comment: this was a nice little surprise, as I hadn’t been monitoring this closely during the war. I think it is good both in-game but particularly for RP/narrative purposes.]
Four days later, the good news kept coming in, with victory formally declared in the Battle of Sømna in Hålogaland. Another strong victory, with few Garðarikian casualties. Olafr would not be able to fend off the inevitable for much longer now – surely!
The now severely depleted Norwegian army in the west, numbering only just over 800 men, fled south to Jamtaland. This time, Þorsteinn let them go: he would finish the job first by taking Hålogaland. After a few days outside the walls, he decided to end it quickly, ordering his men to assault the them. The vastly outnumbered garrison were overwhelmed within a day, with only light Garðarikian losses. After gathering a few gold in plunder, Þorsteinn went off after Olafr’s fleeing force, just to make sure they could get up to no mischief on the way. And, fortuitously, taking his army in the general direction of Uppland, the stronghold of the potentially rebellious Jarl Eirikr the Depraved.
Pacts. The only change was that Mordva joined the Pagan pact on 22 July.
August 904
On 2 August, Vihavald reported from Uppland. He assessed that the chances of successfully arresting Eirikr had improved with his presence, but it was still a little more likely he would escape capture than not [now up to 45% chance of success]. Eilif continued to bide his time. He would wait for the end of the war for Mære and the advice of the Þing before making any move on the troublesome Jarl and former King of Sviþjod.
Grimr’s army had arrived in Austerbotn on 5 August [didn’t get a screen capture of that] and by 10 August was well on the way to gaining victory, with the Norwegian right wing broken and fleeing. But at that point, word reached Eilif that Olafr was finally ready to negotiate, recognising his position was hopeless.
The war had lasted just under two years and finished with Olafr admitting he had been totally beaten. There was only one condition – that Naumadal (and with it Mære) be handed over to Eilif’s rule.
[Comment: with 37% of the warscore from battles and just 16% from occupation, this meant 47% came from holding the target itself. It really confirmed to me how important that was in this kind of single county claim war, even against another large realm. Possession equalling nine tenths of the law and all that!]
The treaty was duly signed, Naumadal transferred to Eilif’s personal demesne, two young prisoners (who couldn’t be ransomed) released and Mære welcomed under the control of a ‘true Germanic Norse King’. And with the war out of the way, Eilif and Olafr recognised that perhaps they weren’t such implacable enemies after all, even with the recent unpleasantness still raw in Olafr’s memory. Eilif thought the younger Olafr a definite improvement on his predecessor, anyway.
At this point in history, the Germanic faith retained considerable moral authority [72% vs the minimum 50% required for reform]. With possession of Mære, Eilif had achieved a second condition for reform of the faith, now controlling three of the five Germanic holy sites. Even if Uppsala was still besmirched by the unholy presence of the Bloody Bishop. All that remained was for Eilif to be recognised as a man of great piety – something he was now well on the way to achieving [293 piety vs a target of 750].
It now seemed the right time to settle a few scores. Eilif asked Spymaster Tihomir’s chief lieutenant in Nygarðr whether a plot to murder Bishop Sigbjörn would be likely to succeed.
In Norway, Þorsteinn changed course, marching his army towards the newly acquired Naumadal so the royal levies could be safely dispersed (the vassal levies would look after their own return). The other levies on Garðarikian soil (in Austerbotn and Ingria) were dismissed. With Grimr now headed home to Smaleskja, the Huscarls remained with Sverker in Austerbotn.
In the Low Countries, the Brabantian Revolt could now follow its course without foreign interference. It would also be interesting to see what now happened to Olafr’s fight against Luxembourg’s Holy War. While he retained the upper hand diplomatically, his main army had marched far away then been savaged by Eilif’s troops. Could he reorient his efforts to salvage the position and win that war?
It was also time for Eilif to decide whether to order Vihavald to arrest Eirikr in Uppland, now that the war with Noregr was over. The two men hated each other with a passion – probably not helped by Eilif having deprived Eirikr of his kingdom and still holding all three of his concubines in prison, as Eirikr had not seen fit to ransom them.
Meanwhile, having taken control of Naumadal (which he intended to keep in his personal demesne, given it had control of the Mære and had shipyards), Eilif now had control of one county too many and the vassals would begin grumbling if he didn’t fix this. He reviewed his current holdings, ranked by current levy size (which almost exactly correlated with their order by tax revenues).
Excluding Naumadal itself and Kexholm (he wasn’t going to repeat his Austerbotn mistake by giving away another prime source of ships), after conferring with his Council he thought the quite recently acquired Orsha tribe might be the best to cede. And he thought he would give the county to Grimr, his Advisor and long-time Rurikid loyalist. It would make him powerful perhaps, but Grimr would become even more loyal and already had a seat on Council. And he might be pleased enough with the grant to become a formal member of the ‘King’s Loyalist’ group on Council, prepared to back Eilif in crucial votes. And there was also the prospect of adding a pouch of gold if a little more was required to so persuade him.
Sure, he was a very ‘interesting’ character, as the classic understatement goes, but who really cares about all that!? Unless he was secretly a devotee of Hel (which given his characteristics seemed a definite possibility). [Comment: I love that he’s a stuttering, clubfooted, frail, gay, lustful, wroth, arbitrary, deceitful, possessed Viking warrior and accomplished general! I intend to give him a greater role at court in the aftermath of this war, especially if Eilif gives him the grant of Orsha.]
Eilif took Buðli aside to his private chamber for a confidential discussion, outlining his plans for Grimr’s promotion.
“And this document updates the changes since we started tracking these moves in December last year.”
Converted by modern scholars into contemporary format.
Reviewing his own position, Eilif considered a few things that he might change. First, his fleet levies had grown again, with natural growth in his existing shipyards and the extra ships available from Naumadal. With 34 ships at present, growing up to a maximum of 43, there was enough to allow a sizeable ship-borne raiding party, if he desired to mount one. In fact, it would just about match the number of troops he had available from his own demesne to carry out such a raid. The question of whether to dismiss or try to retain the 1,761 warrior remaining of the tribal army summoned originally for the war with Sweden remained. If he wanted to raid now, they would have to be let go.
Eilif’s personal focus was currently on hunting [he could not change that until May 906]. He remained ambitious to become exalted among men and thus gain added respect from his now large array of vassals [444/1,000, which could increase very quickly with some diligent raiding]. He could also ensure he was not mysteriously spirited away in the middle of the night to command troops in some far-flung field. [So that button was clicked: any future command, if it happened, would be deliberate.]
Buðli remained the heir apparent, which Eilif was most pleased with. He had a new infant daughter … and room in his bed for two more concubines, if he could find some young(ish) women of the right religion, culture and calibre to deserve the honour. But the court matchmakers scoured their lists and yet again came up with – not very much worth looking at (or so it seemed to Eilif).
Eilif's main immediate goal was to become seen as pious enough to lead a reformation of the Germanic faith. And the best and quickest way of achieving that, it seemed to him, was to embark on a campaign of raiding, especially of infidel temples, wherever they could be found. And sacrificing that captured missionary at the next Blot should help too.
This course would also allow threat perceptions to abate somewhat, lest Eilif become the target of unwelcome attention. Or indeed to let the Pagan pact in particular begin to wither away, to free up more targets for future expansion, when the time for that came. And once Eilif did succeed in becoming an exalted figure, that prestige could be used to maintain his position, to create new buildings in his ‘core’ personal counties or to summon new tribal armies when needed.
All in all, his instincts and his advisers were indicating a period of peace and raiding should come next. And then he could hold a Grand Hunt in September and a Great Blot in November – both of which he would love to do. But, as always, he valued the views of the learned in helping him to make decisions, seize opportunities and identify and avoid (or at least manage) risks.
The State of the Realm – 10 August 904
First, Eilif checked on what his family enemies were up to. Following Hakon’s defeat and then release from prison in Ireland, he had turned up back in Garðariki. He was living in his brother Buðli’s court in Zaozerye! His wife Sigrid remained in Westmorland hunting apostates, where she was Seeress to Þorsteinn of Westmorland.
Eilif privately contemplated either trying to eliminate or imprisoning Hakon, but neither seemed promising or worthwhile, so he didn’t act on them. Yet.
Eilif’s other familial enemy, his brother Dyre, remained quietly working away as Steward in Gwent. His ‘son’ Rurik (actually Eilif’s son from his affair with Dyre’s wife Elin Arnfastsdottir) was now two years old. Eilif's affair with Elin was a little cooler than it had been, but was not over. And he felt Dyre could be safely ignored for now.
Next, Sumarliði presented the King with the collated work of the court scribes and that listed a number of subjects of interest. The first was a list of all current Rurikid dynasty members with the most powerful at the top. Only three of them – Eilif himself, his nephew Buðli and young son Styrkar – were landed.
Another list showed all Eilif’s vassals, by demesne size. Jarl Eirikr was the most powerful – and dangerous – of the lot. Nishkepaz of Yaroslavl was next – good reason to try to keep him happy (as he also controlled a significant levy). Many towards the top of the list were from the new Swedish territories.
Casting their eyes further afield and consulting all the sources available, they had prepared another list showing all the realms in the known world, ranked first by realm size. Garðariki now ranked a credible 15th, not far behind Denmark.
An when ranked by notional army size [perhaps temporarily inflated by the remaining tribal army warriors?], Garðariki ranked an impressive 10th – by numbers, if not necessarily by combat power.
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Questions
Many things - large and small; technical, political and strategic – for the Þing to consider this time, as Eilif must confront new and more complex matters beyond his or his father’s experience.
Ch84 Q1: Eirikr and Nephew Björn. Any advice or implications to be aware of here? If Björn becomes Jarl early, is he prevented from acting on his claim to Garðariki directly until he is 16 (over ten years away)? Any other suggestions or pointers deemed relevant to considerations here, or precautions Eilif should take if he makes the move? Should he even consider accidentally on purpose having the young Björn overbalance and drown in a vat of Malmsey wine?
Ch84 Q2: Killing the Bloody Bishop. 72% plot power doesn’t seem decisive to me, but this would be my first ever attempted CK2 murder, so clearly I’m in new territory with this. I haven’t clicked the button yet, but plan to do so when the next session starts. Is that when I get to see who might be invited to join in? Any views on the plot power starting point or for prosecuting it once it begins?
Ch84 Q3: Dismissing Levies, Tribal Army and a New War. A technical question here: some have advocated going straight on to another way, using the remaining tribal army troops (now down to about 1,700+ in strength) to roll onto a new conquest. But, if I were to do that, to declare war I’d have to disperse the levies still on foreign territory. This would result in just over half of the 1,250 levies in Hålogaland being lost – a significant dent in the royal levy base, that would take a long time to recover. There is no such problem with the troops in Austerbotn. And if I give them time to get to Naumadal for a safe dispersal, I assume I’d lose the tribal army as soon as I restart the game. Is all that correct? If so, it doesn’t seem like that good a bargain to me. It would be a serious consideration when looking at ‘next steps’ (more on that later).
Ch84 Q4: Eirikr, Arrest, Possible Revolt and status of the Tribal Army. I’m pretty much convinced to go for this, pending advice on that earlier question re his son Björn and that weak claim he holds on the Garðarikian crown. A technical question here: if I move to arrest Eirikr and he declares war, does that mean my still-mustered levies in Hålogaland remain mustered? And what about the tribal army: would this count as another war (if it happens as I un-pause the game) and would they stay for that? Or does it either not count for that, or perhaps they would disappear in between me ordering Vihavald to perform the arrest and its resolution (one way or the other)?
Ch84 Q5: Orsha for Grimr? This seems like a good proposition to me, but after having messed this up previously I formally seek the advice of the Þing on both the county to cede and whether Grimr is a good choice to give it too. I don’t think it would make him too powerful, and in any case he would be very loyal. And he’s one of the minority of Norse Germanic vassals in the Garðarikian half of the realm.
Ch84 Q6: Where to Next? There you have it: the war with Olafr has been won and the fork in the road reached. Any thoughts, views or advice re Eilif’s next moves (personal or strategic) are welcome. My intention for some time has been to now consolidate and go as quickly as possible for the reform of the faith, before something awful happens to Eilif, the realm splinters and the chance passes. If he can also eventually found an empire before shuffling off, great. Same with achieving feudalism. But this is something achievable I feel he should reach for now – in game terms, but also as part of the Rurikid dynastic roleplay/narrative. Established at the very start of the AAR. And raiding still involves plenty of Blood and Battle!
Ch84 Q7: Hakon. I know I have limited ability to do much to/with Hakon, but now that he’s back in the realm, I have an uneasy feeling. Any thoughts on what to do with/to him? Or do I let him go until he gives cause for intervention? As far as I can see, he is no longer trying to kill Sölvi Sverkersson either, though they remain rivals, as does Hakon with Eilif. Maybe that plot stopped when he was imprisoned?
A modern representation, staged by Rurikid re-enactors, of the submission of Naumadal by King Olafr II of Norway on 10 August 904 AD.
AuthAAR’s Note: this represents the second (and final) instalment from the last play session, so played before the recent Þing was convened. Then we’ll be back up to date again.
ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ
Previously, on Blut und Schlacht … The great Battle of Dovre had effectively broken the back of Norwegian resistance, but they were yet to surrender; King Eilif’s public successes are counterbalanced with worries in his domestic life, after the death of his concubine and Spymaster Elin, then with gout and stress making his wife Queen Ingrid ill, and the obstinate refusal of his lover (the other Elin, his brother Dyre’s wife) to meet for an assignation; the defensive pacts against him vary in strength, but will they matter? And the festering sore of the Bloody Bishop polluting the hallowed halls of the Temple of Uppsala remains untreated – for now.
ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ
June 904
Fresh from the ‘Summer Þing’ of June 904 and with his forces in close pursuit of the Norwegians, Eilif gave his rival King Olafr II of Noregr a last chance before the next battle for him to submit to the claim on Naumadal and the Holy Site of Mære, which Eilif asserted “must be properly safeguarded against the encroachments of infidel Christian missionaries”. Olafr could then “concentrate on your true enemies, the Christians waging holy war against you from Luxembourg.”
He readied a messenger for his opponent, hoping to prevent the “needless effusion of more Norse blood in what will surely be another devastating victory for Garðariki.”
While there was no setback in the field, as Olafr’s much-reduced army was chased down, Eilif was not pleased by the actions of his very own Marshal, Chief Vihavald of Ingria, late that June. It may not have been a serious threat (certainly not as serious as the Independence faction being led by the former Chief Frirek of Ghent), but … the principle of the thing! Eilif consoled himself, thinking: Ah well, chiefs will be chiefs!
“Sire, I must confess to unadvisedly being a member of a plot, led by your commander Chief Nikita of Tver, to fabricate a claim on the Jarldom of Tver,” wrote Tihomir Slovensky. “Jarl Eirikr is also a backer. I will of course immediately cease in this foolish pursuit, which I took up before your gracious appointment of me to my current privileged post on your Council.”
“Set a snake to catch a snake!” remarked Eilif to the Royal Scribe and Chronicler Sumarliði as he read this letter. “Perhaps there was wisdom in this appointment after all!”
“Set a snake to catch a snake!” remarked Eilif to the Royal Scribe and Chronicler Sumarliði as he read this letter. “Perhaps there was wisdom in this appointment after all!”
He quickly had Sumarliði write two letters: one to Tihomir praising his honesty and formally asking him to disavow Nikita’s plot. The second, more terse, to Eirikr demanding the same. Chancellor Buðli had recommended doing so even though he was likely to refuse, as that would give Eilif just cause (after all, he had a nickname to live up to) to arrest the troublesome former king if he did so. He could do little about Nikita (also a member of the Independence faction) at present, but tolerate him - and perhaps hope he suffered a fatal battlefield injury in the war against Noregr!
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July 904
The responses from Tihomir and Eirikr soon arrived – and could not have been more different in tone. But, in their ways, both were equally welcome news to Eilif, who had been hoping Eirikr would refuse. Habeus corpus, he thought to himself. And in writing, no less!
“What chances do we have of successfully arresting Eirikr right now?” was Eilif’s blunt question.
“Not great, My King,” was the reply. “If we send bailiffs and Eirikr in his own lands, our chances are small. He is a powerful lord in Sweden and his lands are right next to the current campaign against Noregr. It would be ill if he raised his banner in rebellion at this sensitive time.”
“Let me think on that a moment, Vihavald,” said Eilif, turning to his loyal nephew. “Buðli, what of Eirikr’s son – also my nephew? If Björn were installed as Jarl should Eirikr be removed, would he be any better disposed to me?”
“Not great, My King,” was the reply. “If we send bailiffs and Eirikr in his own lands, our chances are small. He is a powerful lord in Sweden and his lands are right next to the current campaign against Noregr. It would be ill if he raised his banner in rebellion at this sensitive time.”
“Let me think on that a moment, Vihavald,” said Eilif, turning to his loyal nephew. “Buðli, what of Eirikr’s son – also my nephew? If Björn were installed as Jarl should Eirikr be removed, would he be any better disposed to me?”
“Perhaps, King Eilif. But he would inherit many of the reasons Eirikr has to oppose you. One advantage though is that young Björn is only five years old, so would be far less able to act on those reasons. But he does have a weak claim on the Kingdom of Garðariki, though your late sister Ulfhildr, back to Rurik himself.”
“I will think on that aspect and ask that you raise it in the next Þing, Buðli, so we may hear the advice of the learned on the implications of this situation.”
Turning to his Marshal, Eilif continued. “And Vihavald, I will not move to arrest Eirikr yet, not while the chances of apprehending him are so low, with war continuing and some thinking to do about the implications of ousting him. But you are to proceed to Uppland with a modest levy of troops. Keep the Upplanders in check and be prepared to arrest Eirikr when I send word.”
“At once, My King!”
“I will think on that aspect and ask that you raise it in the next Þing, Buðli, so we may hear the advice of the learned on the implications of this situation.”
Turning to his Marshal, Eilif continued. “And Vihavald, I will not move to arrest Eirikr yet, not while the chances of apprehending him are so low, with war continuing and some thinking to do about the implications of ousting him. But you are to proceed to Uppland with a modest levy of troops. Keep the Upplanders in check and be prepared to arrest Eirikr when I send word.”
“At once, My King!”
Ch84 Q1: Eirikr and Nephew Björn. Any advice or implications to be aware of here? If Björn becomes Jarl early, is he prevented from acting on his claim to Garðariki directly until he is 16 (over ten years away)? Any other suggestions or pointers deemed relevant to considerations here, or precautions Eilif should take if he makes the move? Should he even consider accidentally on purpose having the young Björn overbalance and drown in a vat of Malmsey wine?
And speaking of war, as these political events were transpiring in Nygarðr, Þorsteinn had caught up with Olafr in Hålogaland, with battle commencing on 1 July. Despite the advantages of the ground, the now bedraggled Norwegian army was badly outmatched. After just six days, all serious fighting was over and the pursuit had begun.
“King Eilif,” said Sumarliði a few days later. “I have a message here from the Chamberlain that a new courtier has appeared. His name is Totil – a lowborn man of 25 summers. It seems he is of good habits, a reasonable soldier and in search of a wife.”
“Who? Never heard of him or asked for him. A Totil nobody!” Being a father, Eilif was entitled to make bad Dad jokes and being King, no-one other than his wife was willing to gainsay him. “Still, he may be of use at some point, so see that he is made comfortable and given something to do.”
“Of course, My Liege.”
“Who? Never heard of him or asked for him. A Totil nobody!” Being a father, Eilif was entitled to make bad Dad jokes and being King, no-one other than his wife was willing to gainsay him. “Still, he may be of use at some point, so see that he is made comfortable and given something to do.”
“Of course, My Liege.”
“It seems your support has swung enough electors behind my candidacy to make me your heir, Eilif, even if the numbers are currently even. Your vote – for which I remain truly grateful – would break the tie.”
“Congratulations, Buðli, your energy, competence as Chancellor and loyalty have earned you this honour. Rikulfr is not half the potential King you have become. I’m sure more will swing to support you as time goes by.”
“Congratulations, Buðli, your energy, competence as Chancellor and loyalty have earned you this honour. Rikulfr is not half the potential King you have become. I’m sure more will swing to support you as time goes by.”
[Comment: this was a nice little surprise, as I hadn’t been monitoring this closely during the war. I think it is good both in-game but particularly for RP/narrative purposes.]
Four days later, the good news kept coming in, with victory formally declared in the Battle of Sømna in Hålogaland. Another strong victory, with few Garðarikian casualties. Olafr would not be able to fend off the inevitable for much longer now – surely!
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August 904
On 2 August, Vihavald reported from Uppland. He assessed that the chances of successfully arresting Eirikr had improved with his presence, but it was still a little more likely he would escape capture than not [now up to 45% chance of success]. Eilif continued to bide his time. He would wait for the end of the war for Mære and the advice of the Þing before making any move on the troublesome Jarl and former King of Sviþjod.
Grimr’s army had arrived in Austerbotn on 5 August [didn’t get a screen capture of that] and by 10 August was well on the way to gaining victory, with the Norwegian right wing broken and fleeing. But at that point, word reached Eilif that Olafr was finally ready to negotiate, recognising his position was hopeless.
The treaty was duly signed, Naumadal transferred to Eilif’s personal demesne, two young prisoners (who couldn’t be ransomed) released and Mære welcomed under the control of a ‘true Germanic Norse King’. And with the war out of the way, Eilif and Olafr recognised that perhaps they weren’t such implacable enemies after all, even with the recent unpleasantness still raw in Olafr’s memory. Eilif thought the younger Olafr a definite improvement on his predecessor, anyway.
“Success would not be guaranteed, My Liege,” replied the shadowy agent. “Perhaps the likelihood of a plot working would be improved if you could recruit accomplices near to him. That might require a little financial persuasion, if it comes to it.”
“Hmm, let me think on it.”
“Hmm, let me think on it.”
Ch84 Q2: Killing the Bloody Bishop. 72% plot power doesn’t seem decisive to me, but this would be my first ever attempted CK2 murder, so clearly I’m in new territory with this. I haven’t clicked the button yet, but plan to do so when the next session starts. Is that when I get to see who might be invited to join in? Any views on the plot power starting point or for prosecuting it once it begins?
In Norway, Þorsteinn changed course, marching his army towards the newly acquired Naumadal so the royal levies could be safely dispersed (the vassal levies would look after their own return). The other levies on Garðarikian soil (in Austerbotn and Ingria) were dismissed. With Grimr now headed home to Smaleskja, the Huscarls remained with Sverker in Austerbotn.
Ch84 Q3: Dismissing Levies, Tribal Army and a New War. A technical question here: some have advocated going straight on to another way, using the remaining tribal army troops (now down to about 1,700+ in strength) to roll onto a new conquest. But, if I were to do that, to declare war I’d have to disperse the levies still on foreign territory. This would result in just over half of the 1,250 levies in Hålogaland being lost – a significant dent in the royal levy base, that would take a long time to recover. There is no such problem with the troops in Austerbotn. And if I give them time to get to Naumadal for a safe dispersal, I assume I’d lose the tribal army as soon as I restart the game. Is all that correct? If so, it doesn’t seem like that good a bargain to me. It would be a serious consideration when looking at ‘next steps’ (more on that later).
In the Low Countries, the Brabantian Revolt could now follow its course without foreign interference. It would also be interesting to see what now happened to Olafr’s fight against Luxembourg’s Holy War. While he retained the upper hand diplomatically, his main army had marched far away then been savaged by Eilif’s troops. Could he reorient his efforts to salvage the position and win that war?
Ch84 Q4: Eirikr, Arrest, Possible Revolt and status of the Tribal Army. I’m pretty much convinced to go for this, pending advice on that earlier question re his son Björn and that weak claim he holds on the Garðarikian crown. A technical question here: if I move to arrest Eirikr and he declares war, does that mean my still-mustered levies in Hålogaland remain mustered? And what about the tribal army: would this count as another war (if it happens as I un-pause the game) and would they stay for that? Or does it either not count for that, or perhaps they would disappear in between me ordering Vihavald to perform the arrest and its resolution (one way or the other)?
Meanwhile, having taken control of Naumadal (which he intended to keep in his personal demesne, given it had control of the Mære and had shipyards), Eilif now had control of one county too many and the vassals would begin grumbling if he didn’t fix this. He reviewed his current holdings, ranked by current levy size (which almost exactly correlated with their order by tax revenues).
Sure, he was a very ‘interesting’ character, as the classic understatement goes, but who really cares about all that!? Unless he was secretly a devotee of Hel (which given his characteristics seemed a definite possibility). [Comment: I love that he’s a stuttering, clubfooted, frail, gay, lustful, wroth, arbitrary, deceitful, possessed Viking warrior and accomplished general! I intend to give him a greater role at court in the aftermath of this war, especially if Eilif gives him the grant of Orsha.]
“It sounds like a good idea to me, Eilif, but I’m thinking you may want the advice of the Þing on this one.”
“And, once again you are dead right, Buðli. Please put this to a select group of trusted delegates.”
“And, once again you are dead right, Buðli. Please put this to a select group of trusted delegates.”
Ch84 Q5: Orsha for Grimr? This seems like a good proposition to me, but after having messed this up previously I formally seek the advice of the Þing on both the county to cede and whether Grimr is a good choice to give it too. I don’t think it would make him too powerful, and in any case he would be very loyal. And he’s one of the minority of Norse Germanic vassals in the Garðarikian half of the realm.
“And Eilif, while I have you and you begin to consider what we might do next, here is a summary report on how we are regarded by other realms and the current membership of the Christian and Pagan defensive pacts. I’m not sure yet what additional threat may be perceived from the just-concluded peace with Olafr. News of the only change this month came in today, with Pruthenia joining the Pagan pact.”
Converted by modern scholars into contemporary format.
“Thank you, Buðli, this is important information, especially as I must decide whether to now opt for peace with raiding to help push for the reform of our faith, or continue to seek to expand the realm, perhaps even to think of imperial ambitions.”
“There is also the matter of various court appointments that have become available while we have been preoccupied with these wars.”
“Very well, we shall make some appointments. First, Jarl Nishkepaz is a powerful vassal. Even though I notice he is tolerant of Christian. I have no room for him on the Council, though he would make a competent Spymaster. But making him Dróttseti will be almost enough to swing his opinion in my favour.”
“There is also the matter of various court appointments that have become available while we have been preoccupied with these wars.”
“Very well, we shall make some appointments. First, Jarl Nishkepaz is a powerful vassal. Even though I notice he is tolerant of Christian. I have no room for him on the Council, though he would make a competent Spymaster. But making him Dróttseti will be almost enough to swing his opinion in my favour.”
“Vihavald has also pointed out that we seem to have inherited a bunch of commanders when we subjugated Sweden. And most of them are abjectly terrible generals! Let us start to replace them with more competent men where we can. We will start will Jarl Rikulfr: he wouldn’t recognise a battle-axe if it hacked his arm off! Zhavaronok may be a bit of a toad, but there is hope to make him a more loyal Chief. He is at least competent – he will take Rikulfr’s place.”
“I have also heard that Haukr, the current Protostrator of the Varangian Guard, is one of the foremost Norse Germanic generals around and is not very happy with his current appointment. Let us invite him to our court. If he accepts we’ll make him a commander straight away. Probably for poor old Jarl Ivar ‘the Monk’. He’s not much better that Rikulfr.”
Buðli remained the heir apparent, which Eilif was most pleased with. He had a new infant daughter … and room in his bed for two more concubines, if he could find some young(ish) women of the right religion, culture and calibre to deserve the honour. But the court matchmakers scoured their lists and yet again came up with – not very much worth looking at (or so it seemed to Eilif).
Comment: The first search shown is as wide as possible, excluding only those females already married. It turned up only two geniuses: one was out of diplomatic range anyway (I assume that means I can’t invite them anyway); the other might come to court if offered an inducement – but is 60 years old! Restricting it to just those within diplomatic range and willing to come to court (the few who might come with an inducement weren’t really worth looking further at anyway), the cupboard was also pretty bare. Even more if restricted to Germanic Norse women. Rycheza of Dymin was probably the pick of the bunch in terms of talent and was about Eilif’s age, though she was a Slavic Pomeranian. She would bring a few weak claims with her if she joined Eilif’s court.
Happy to take any comments or views on the Concubine stakes: @diskoerekto, this is about what has been available for quite some time now. Nothing much going, it seems.
Eilif's main immediate goal was to become seen as pious enough to lead a reformation of the Germanic faith. And the best and quickest way of achieving that, it seemed to him, was to embark on a campaign of raiding, especially of infidel temples, wherever they could be found. And sacrificing that captured missionary at the next Blot should help too.
This course would also allow threat perceptions to abate somewhat, lest Eilif become the target of unwelcome attention. Or indeed to let the Pagan pact in particular begin to wither away, to free up more targets for future expansion, when the time for that came. And once Eilif did succeed in becoming an exalted figure, that prestige could be used to maintain his position, to create new buildings in his ‘core’ personal counties or to summon new tribal armies when needed.
All in all, his instincts and his advisers were indicating a period of peace and raiding should come next. And then he could hold a Grand Hunt in September and a Great Blot in November – both of which he would love to do. But, as always, he valued the views of the learned in helping him to make decisions, seize opportunities and identify and avoid (or at least manage) risks.
Ch84 Q6: Where to Next? There you have it: the war with Olafr has been won and the fork in the road reached. Any thoughts, views or advice re Eilif’s next moves (personal or strategic) are welcome. My intention for some time has been to now consolidate and go as quickly as possible for the reform of the faith, before something awful happens to Eilif, the realm splinters and the chance passes. If he can also eventually found an empire before shuffling off, great. Same with achieving feudalism. But this is something achievable I feel he should reach for now – in game terms, but also as part of the Rurikid dynastic roleplay/narrative. Established at the very start of the AAR. And raiding still involves plenty of Blood and Battle!
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The State of the Realm – 10 August 904
First, Eilif checked on what his family enemies were up to. Following Hakon’s defeat and then release from prison in Ireland, he had turned up back in Garðariki. He was living in his brother Buðli’s court in Zaozerye! His wife Sigrid remained in Westmorland hunting apostates, where she was Seeress to Þorsteinn of Westmorland.
“You had better keep Hakon in check and far away from me, Buðli. I trust you to keep him on a leash … but if he breaks free of it, I’m warning him through you that it will not be tolerated!”
“As you say, Eilif, I’ll do my best. You have given fair warning – but he is my brother and cast out.”
“Well, I wish he would go back to his wife!”
“As you say, Eilif, I’ll do my best. You have given fair warning – but he is my brother and cast out.”
“Well, I wish he would go back to his wife!”
Eilif privately contemplated either trying to eliminate or imprisoning Hakon, but neither seemed promising or worthwhile, so he didn’t act on them. Yet.
Ch84 Q7: Hakon. I know I have limited ability to do much to/with Hakon, but now that he’s back in the realm, I have an uneasy feeling. Any thoughts on what to do with/to him? Or do I let him go until he gives cause for intervention? As far as I can see, he is no longer trying to kill Sölvi Sverkersson either, though they remain rivals, as does Hakon with Eilif. Maybe that plot stopped when he was imprisoned?
Eilif’s other familial enemy, his brother Dyre, remained quietly working away as Steward in Gwent. His ‘son’ Rurik (actually Eilif’s son from his affair with Dyre’s wife Elin Arnfastsdottir) was now two years old. Eilif's affair with Elin was a little cooler than it had been, but was not over. And he felt Dyre could be safely ignored for now.
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Questions
Many things - large and small; technical, political and strategic – for the Þing to consider this time, as Eilif must confront new and more complex matters beyond his or his father’s experience.
Ch84 Q1: Eirikr and Nephew Björn. Any advice or implications to be aware of here? If Björn becomes Jarl early, is he prevented from acting on his claim to Garðariki directly until he is 16 (over ten years away)? Any other suggestions or pointers deemed relevant to considerations here, or precautions Eilif should take if he makes the move? Should he even consider accidentally on purpose having the young Björn overbalance and drown in a vat of Malmsey wine?
Ch84 Q2: Killing the Bloody Bishop. 72% plot power doesn’t seem decisive to me, but this would be my first ever attempted CK2 murder, so clearly I’m in new territory with this. I haven’t clicked the button yet, but plan to do so when the next session starts. Is that when I get to see who might be invited to join in? Any views on the plot power starting point or for prosecuting it once it begins?
Ch84 Q3: Dismissing Levies, Tribal Army and a New War. A technical question here: some have advocated going straight on to another way, using the remaining tribal army troops (now down to about 1,700+ in strength) to roll onto a new conquest. But, if I were to do that, to declare war I’d have to disperse the levies still on foreign territory. This would result in just over half of the 1,250 levies in Hålogaland being lost – a significant dent in the royal levy base, that would take a long time to recover. There is no such problem with the troops in Austerbotn. And if I give them time to get to Naumadal for a safe dispersal, I assume I’d lose the tribal army as soon as I restart the game. Is all that correct? If so, it doesn’t seem like that good a bargain to me. It would be a serious consideration when looking at ‘next steps’ (more on that later).
Ch84 Q4: Eirikr, Arrest, Possible Revolt and status of the Tribal Army. I’m pretty much convinced to go for this, pending advice on that earlier question re his son Björn and that weak claim he holds on the Garðarikian crown. A technical question here: if I move to arrest Eirikr and he declares war, does that mean my still-mustered levies in Hålogaland remain mustered? And what about the tribal army: would this count as another war (if it happens as I un-pause the game) and would they stay for that? Or does it either not count for that, or perhaps they would disappear in between me ordering Vihavald to perform the arrest and its resolution (one way or the other)?
Ch84 Q5: Orsha for Grimr? This seems like a good proposition to me, but after having messed this up previously I formally seek the advice of the Þing on both the county to cede and whether Grimr is a good choice to give it too. I don’t think it would make him too powerful, and in any case he would be very loyal. And he’s one of the minority of Norse Germanic vassals in the Garðarikian half of the realm.
Ch84 Q6: Where to Next? There you have it: the war with Olafr has been won and the fork in the road reached. Any thoughts, views or advice re Eilif’s next moves (personal or strategic) are welcome. My intention for some time has been to now consolidate and go as quickly as possible for the reform of the faith, before something awful happens to Eilif, the realm splinters and the chance passes. If he can also eventually found an empire before shuffling off, great. Same with achieving feudalism. But this is something achievable I feel he should reach for now – in game terms, but also as part of the Rurikid dynastic roleplay/narrative. Established at the very start of the AAR. And raiding still involves plenty of Blood and Battle!
Ch84 Q7: Hakon. I know I have limited ability to do much to/with Hakon, but now that he’s back in the realm, I have an uneasy feeling. Any thoughts on what to do with/to him? Or do I let him go until he gives cause for intervention? As far as I can see, he is no longer trying to kill Sölvi Sverkersson either, though they remain rivals, as does Hakon with Eilif. Maybe that plot stopped when he was imprisoned?
ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ
A modern representation, staged by Rurikid re-enactors, of the submission of Naumadal by King Olafr II of Norway on 10 August 904 AD.
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Nice episode, at a strategic fork in the road. I wonder what fellow readAARs would say
Good thinking sending the marshal there already. Since this is a weak claim, something extraordinary must be going on in order to Bjorn to be able to press it. He cannot just start a claim war like that. He only can if a regency is ruling Gardariki, or the title is already being contested, or the king is somehow incapacitated, or Bjorn is already 2nd/3rd in line to inherit. Other than those it's just a cause for him to hate you and nothing else. Not the best thing but not the worst.
Which can be gained by making war on infidels, just saying
I realized now that after all that time playing CK2, I never attempted this as well. Let's see how this works
:/ seems so, and yes seems like a bad bargain. I'm also taking a mental note to pull all troops on friendly territory before negotiating peace if i'm inclined on using event troops for multiple wars.
This is quite an edge case and I don't have concrete information but only gut feeling that Eirikr would take some time to declare war (not instant) so the tribal army might just disappear but sometimes it takes the tribal army a day or so to disappear so who knows? About levies, I guess they'll stay mustered since it isn't you starting a war.
Sounds like a good idea
So if we don't want to take Kiev (or whatever province that is, the triangular one) from Hungary, we can go for Ugra...
sometimes women that would not agree to join your court agrees to be a concubine so you can leave that field as "any". So textbox:genius, married:no, adult:yes, gender:women, religion:my group, diplorange:yes would be my filter. Sometimes there aren't many (or any). When you look for non adult ones, are there any close to being adult?
I still say one more province (from the de jure empire of Rus) before raiding but it depends on the status of the seemingly only available target (Ugra). After that deal with Eirikr, the blot, the hunt, the raiding... all fun and games ahead
I'd just ignore him until he's up to something. It's not like that he's able to do much anyway.
Ch84 Q6: Where to Next?
IMHO raiding is the way to go, it would solve a lot of your problems, it give you money, prestige, piety,maybe some guests for the next Blot (more piety) and possibly some noble concubine that give prestige and sons with claims on foreign lands. Also, is fun.
Ch84 Q4: Eirikr, Arrest, Possible Revolt and status of the Tribal Army.
Before disband it, you could move your army to his country, then try to arrest him, if you succed, fine, if you don't he'll raise his troops in revolt... and they'll find your troops ready for them, easy win.
Ch84 Q5: Orsha for Grimr?
If he become a loyalist maybe you could have enough votes for the 'religious title revocation' law and solve the Bloody Bishop issue?
IMHO raiding is the way to go, it would solve a lot of your problems, it give you money, prestige, piety,maybe some guests for the next Blot (more piety) and possibly some noble concubine that give prestige and sons with claims on foreign lands. Also, is fun.
Ch84 Q4: Eirikr, Arrest, Possible Revolt and status of the Tribal Army.
Before disband it, you could move your army to his country, then try to arrest him, if you succed, fine, if you don't he'll raise his troops in revolt... and they'll find your troops ready for them, easy win.
Ch84 Q5: Orsha for Grimr?
If he become a loyalist maybe you could have enough votes for the 'religious title revocation' law and solve the Bloody Bishop issue?
What is our current "Title revocation" law?
Assuming Eirikr revolts, we could imprison him and possibly revoke a title or two.
Is Eirikr the count of the Bloody Bishop's home province?
Assuming Eirikr revolts, we could imprison him and possibly revoke a title or two.
Is Eirikr the count of the Bloody Bishop's home province?
You neee 100% plot power really, and to be honest you want it to be higher than that. The more people you invite, the larger the chance people will find out you are behind it. But you do need quite a few people to kill people generally. Unless you and your spymaster are super spies.
The initial plot power is just what it says.
The possible plot power includes people who can be invited right now (but not those who will join after you give them a gift).
So you can probably get the plot power above 100% after clicking the button. The intrigue menu will give you a list of possible supporters.
The possible plot power includes people who can be invited right now (but not those who will join after you give them a gift).
So you can probably get the plot power above 100% after clicking the button. The intrigue menu will give you a list of possible supporters.
hmmmm...who decides the Bishop Sigbjörn's replacement? Murdering him to have another person become Bishop isn't going to help you.
it is worth checking the traits of those that you ask to join your plots, drunkards tend to blab it out, for example. Other bad traits could be arbitrary, lunatic, probably honest and kind? Not really sure, but i mostly go by common sense.
Yeah stick to as few as possible, with as high trustworthiness as you can. A high end intrigue character who's stupidly loyal is better than six passable characters. But if he's already on 70% he shouldn't need too many to join in. Maybe the bishops direct leige lord and some few others?
Past 100 for plot to go ahead, but mistakes can still be made, he can fight off attackers etc. And if the attempt works or doesn't, still seperate dice roll to see if everyone knows its you or not. Get a bad rep if found out, even if he doesn't die.
Chapter 84: Annex A - Supplementary Information
Chapter 84: Annex A - Supplementary Information
Thanks to some excellent questions, I'm providing a some supplementary details. I'll do the standard comprehensive reply to the questions and comments as per normal.
Last question first: yes, Eirikr is Bishop Sigbjorn's direct liege.
PS: Studying Sigbjorn more closely, I'm starting to feel a little sympathy for him (though I don't know if Eilif would): he's not much of a priest, more of a brave fighter of middling ability, who was after all only fighting for his liege. He has sympathy for Pagans and rather likes Eilif (even if it is mainly for having been subjugated by him). He has no espionage ability at all! The main thing counting against him is that he's a Christian running one of our holiest Germanic sites!
On Revocation Laws: 'ordinary' Title Revocation is allowed. The Religious Control Mandate would require a Council vote, which at the moment is borderline, but leaning against.
Other Legal Question for all: Also, while I was looking, I checked the other available legal options. Raising Tribal Organisation to Medium (a precursor to longer term adoption of Feudalism, I understand) is still firmly opposed but all except good old Budli. But I'd never got around to raising Centralisation to Low - and everyone would approve that. Doing that would allow me one extra demesne title (currently 9/8) but of course decrease my vassal limit by 5 (currently 20/21). I could of course prune back the number of direct vassals by allocating them out or creating a new duchy/jarldom level title for someone, but with a large realm I think the vassal limit seems more important than the demesne limit - or am I wrong in current circumstances? Given this, of the three, which would people recommend me trying to pursue now? NB: I think there's a five or ten year delay between permitted realm legal changes, or is that only in each section of the laws? I think we've discussed it before, but I rarely do these so can't remember!
Succession Musings: And, while I was at it checking the laws, I had a look at the major succession lines for Eilif's three main titles.
From previous discussions, if Styrkar inherits Sweden, he's almost certain to declare independence (without an overarching Empire title having been established by then), correct? Budli should get both Gardariki and the 'home' Holmgardr titles.So (if it turns out that way) could then probably wage a war to reclaim Sweden (which he is next in line to inherit). Of course, this could all change over time, for a variety of reasons.
Still taking comments and advice on all the previous questions from Chapter 84, of course.
Thanks to some excellent questions, I'm providing a some supplementary details. I'll do the standard comprehensive reply to the questions and comments as per normal.
Last question first: yes, Eirikr is Bishop Sigbjorn's direct liege.
I'm not sure - Eirikr as the liege lord? There was some discussion before about this - I think the consensus was it would be a random assignment, but probably not another Christian. See the Bishops' profile below and succession for his title (which sheds no light on it, alas).
PS: Studying Sigbjorn more closely, I'm starting to feel a little sympathy for him (though I don't know if Eilif would): he's not much of a priest, more of a brave fighter of middling ability, who was after all only fighting for his liege. He has sympathy for Pagans and rather likes Eilif (even if it is mainly for having been subjugated by him
). He has no espionage ability at all! The main thing counting against him is that he's a Christian running one of our holiest Germanic sites!On Revocation Laws: 'ordinary' Title Revocation is allowed. The Religious Control Mandate would require a Council vote, which at the moment is borderline, but leaning against.
Other Legal Question for all: Also, while I was looking, I checked the other available legal options. Raising Tribal Organisation to Medium (a precursor to longer term adoption of Feudalism, I understand) is still firmly opposed but all except good old Budli. But I'd never got around to raising Centralisation to Low - and everyone would approve that. Doing that would allow me one extra demesne title (currently 9/8) but of course decrease my vassal limit by 5 (currently 20/21). I could of course prune back the number of direct vassals by allocating them out or creating a new duchy/jarldom level title for someone, but with a large realm I think the vassal limit seems more important than the demesne limit - or am I wrong in current circumstances? Given this, of the three, which would people recommend me trying to pursue now? NB: I think there's a five or ten year delay between permitted realm legal changes, or is that only in each section of the laws? I think we've discussed it before, but I rarely do these so can't remember!
Succession Musings: And, while I was at it checking the laws, I had a look at the major succession lines for Eilif's three main titles.
Still taking comments and advice on all the previous questions from Chapter 84, of course.
I'm not sure if the delay is for the entire screen or for each section, so just to be on the sure side we should focus on tribal organization. I think that is co-most important thing we need to do together with conquering land from the de jure empire of Rus. Keeping centralization as it is now is good I guess.
I don't know how certain, but there's a big possibility.
By the way, how come do we have only 1 Jarldom title? I thought we had more. If they're not all owned by some vassals, creating and keeping them would be a good use of money (since keeping titles are a very good source of prestige). Not urgent, can be done even after a succession decades later (since feudalism and empire should be our top priorities now) but should be done at one point.
About Eirikr and the bishop, maybe when Eirikr is imprisoned, stripped of titles or banished we might also have a more direct way of replacing him? Also, his demesne provinces are all rich and coastal. Mouthwatering really to replace Pskov and 2 heathen shipbuilding provinces with. I'm guessing Naumadal would eventually go for a religious vassal or something?
Ch84 Q1: Bjorn can't plot or start a faction while underage for his claim, but others can, but they can do that whether he is Jarl or not. He is not restricted from starting a war, but, as mentioned above, if all he has is a weak he can't press it unless someone else is already contesting your claim or you are are hiding or incapable or dead and the Kingdom is ruled by a regent. Even then, Bjorn's own regent and council will most likely prevent him from declaring war unless Bjorn is significantly stronger than you.
Ch84 Q2: Killing the Bloody Bishop. The 72% is youu trying to murder him alone. As soon as others join it will go up. You want to limit how many join, but want to get over 100%. Once you start the plot, you can press the "+" to see who is available to join the plot. You can change the order and view the people by plot strength they would add to the plot, pick the least number to get over 100. Some will join immediately, others may need a bribe (the little handout symbol), and some will refuse no matter what.
Ch84 Q4: Eirikr, Arrest, Possible Revolt and status of the Tribal Army - If a revolt starts while your event troops are still active, they should stay for the next war, not disband when you peace out the first war. You only need to dismiss troops if you are starting a new war, not when being attacked.
Ch84 Q5: Orsha for Grimr? This ties into your additional question below on changing to Low Centralization, if you switch to low, you can keep it. If you want to increase Grimr power as a fellow Norse germanic, you can create a Jarldom for him and move some non- norse germanics under him to reduce your vassal limit and increase norse germanic influence in Gardaki.
Ch84 Q6: Where to Next? As touched on below, with three Kingdom titles while still tribal, you may want to reform to become Flykir or else create a custom Empire in order to keep all three kingdoms together, no matter who inherits.
Ch84 Q7: Hakon I wouldn't worry about him. too much. The biggest threats are him starting, or joining, a plot to kill you.
Other Legal Question for all: Going for low centralization will allow you to keep all your current holdings and you can create Jarls or transfer vassalages to deal with vassal limit, which will also incease select Jarls' opinion of you and possibly remove some count-level troublemakers by putting them under Jarls so you don't have to deal with them. Also low centralization will pass, and the changes may make it easier to pass the next law in 10 years.
Succession Musings: As it stands now, Strykar will be independent immediately on Eilif's death, in CK2 a king can't be a vassal to another king. So need to bribe and manipulate the vote to get Budli on top for Sweden as well, or get your Empire-level title before you die to keep Sweden a vassal.
Ch84 Q2: Killing the Bloody Bishop. The 72% is youu trying to murder him alone. As soon as others join it will go up. You want to limit how many join, but want to get over 100%. Once you start the plot, you can press the "+" to see who is available to join the plot. You can change the order and view the people by plot strength they would add to the plot, pick the least number to get over 100. Some will join immediately, others may need a bribe (the little handout symbol), and some will refuse no matter what.
Ch84 Q4: Eirikr, Arrest, Possible Revolt and status of the Tribal Army - If a revolt starts while your event troops are still active, they should stay for the next war, not disband when you peace out the first war. You only need to dismiss troops if you are starting a new war, not when being attacked.
Ch84 Q5: Orsha for Grimr? This ties into your additional question below on changing to Low Centralization, if you switch to low, you can keep it. If you want to increase Grimr power as a fellow Norse germanic, you can create a Jarldom for him and move some non- norse germanics under him to reduce your vassal limit and increase norse germanic influence in Gardaki.
Ch84 Q6: Where to Next? As touched on below, with three Kingdom titles while still tribal, you may want to reform to become Flykir or else create a custom Empire in order to keep all three kingdoms together, no matter who inherits.
Ch84 Q7: Hakon I wouldn't worry about him. too much. The biggest threats are him starting, or joining, a plot to kill you.
Other Legal Question for all: Also, while I was looking, I checked the other available legal options. Raising Tribal Organisation to Medium (a precursor to longer term adoption of Feudalism, I understand) is still firmly opposed but all except good old Budli. But I'd never got around to raising Centralisation to Low - and everyone would approve that. Doing that would allow me one extra demesne title (currently 9/8) but of course decrease my vassal limit by 5 (currently 20/21). I could of course prune back the number of direct vassals by allocating them out or creating a new duchy/jarldom level title for someone, but with a large realm I think the vassal limit seems more important than the demesne limit - or am I wrong in current circumstances? Given this, of the three, which would people recommend me trying to pursue now? NB: I think there's a five or ten year delay between permitted realm legal changes, or is that only in each section of the laws? I think we've discussed it before, but I rarely do these so can't remember!
Succession Musings: And, while I was at it checking the laws, I had a look at the major succession lines for Eilif's three main titles.
From previous discussions, if Styrkar inherits Sweden, he's almost certain to declare independence (without an overarching Empire title having been established by then), correct? Budli should get both Gardariki and the 'home' Holmgardr titles.So (if it turns out that way) could then probably wage a war to reclaim Sweden (which he is next in line to inherit). Of course, this could all change over time, for a variety of reasons.
Still taking comments and advice on all the previous questions from Chapter 84, of course.
Other Legal Question for all: Going for low centralization will allow you to keep all your current holdings and you can create Jarls or transfer vassalages to deal with vassal limit, which will also incease select Jarls' opinion of you and possibly remove some count-level troublemakers by putting them under Jarls so you don't have to deal with them. Also low centralization will pass, and the changes may make it easier to pass the next law in 10 years.
Succession Musings: As it stands now, Strykar will be independent immediately on Eilif's death, in CK2 a king can't be a vassal to another king. So need to bribe and manipulate the vote to get Budli on top for Sweden as well, or get your Empire-level title before you die to keep Sweden a vassal.
Well if the depraved is removed ... then you can appoint the next bishop or Godi ...