“Embrace the Challenge” - Skirmish Hero Lances (HM SPOILERS)

[Prussian Havoc]

12JAN EDIT: The intent of this thread has changed over the days and weeks since it was first begun.

Rather than look to HBS for the creation of BATTLETECH “Hero” Lances, I think our Modding Community has the talent to really take a shot at knocking this one out of the park.

With that in mind and in the interests of preserving the discussion arc that brought me to the above conclusion, I’ve added this bit of preamble to the OP and changed the Thread Title, but will leave the remainder of the OP alone.

If you have any questions please get in touch with me by posting a come t in this thread or just PM me. :bow:








SPOILERS FOLLOW, PLEASE READ AT YOUR OWN RISK


While they are mild spoilers, they are spoilers none the less - the Command Lances for the Black Widow and the Bounty Hunter appears in the HEAVY METAL.

Not only do the BattleMechs appear but where possible their MechWarriors are the Lore-specific “Named” MechWarriors associated with those particular Lances.

And the BattleMechs themselves were unique Variants, names for their MechWarrior and employing + and ++ Weapons and Equipment.

Not satisfied and not stopping there HBS crafted Lance-specific Special Abilities, 2 for the Widow and one for the Hunter.

The Black Widow Command Lance has bonus movement speed and a vastly increased Critical Hit Chance, and they take 20% less damage. (Which stacks with Maclaren’s Marauder 10% Damage Reduction.)

The Black Widow also has a weapon’s Effect Called “Wrenched Actuator.” Upon a successful “Hit” her Target gains a Movement Malus.

Not to be outdone, the Bounty Hunter’s Command Lance has near-perfect Called Shots and sees 20% more Damage with all Attacks. And let me tell you, those Increased Damage Called Shots can be LETHAL!


All in all HBS has outdone itself when it crafted both of these Lances. Both are true marvels of the Big and Stompy Art! :bow:




Given all this, I would like to now harken back to BATTLETECH’s Kickstarter and four Lances that we’re part of its Mission Reward Unlocks.

- The Black Widows, including MechWarriors, as an Enemy Unit you can Fight in the Stage 1 Skirmish Game. (If, as is, HM Black Widow Lance were made available in Single Player Skirmish, IMO this Unlock would be completely realized.)

- The Eridani Light Horse, including MechWarriors, as an Enemy Unit you can Fight in the Stage 1 Skirmish Game.

- The Kurita Sword of Light, including MechWarriors, as an Enemy Unit you can Fight in the Stage 1 Skirmish Game.

- House Davion’s Foxes Teeth, including MechWarriors, as an Enemy Unit you can Fight in the Stage 1 Skirmish Game.




With every DLC, HBS breaths form, function and Big Stompy LIFE to more and more of its Kickstarter Mission Rewards.

It is my fervent hope that the next BATTLETECH DLC or maybe even better, the next major BATTLETECH Free Update, will see one or more of these BATTLETECH Skirmish Mode “Hero Lances” added into the game.


[Mod edit: no polls]

Would you like to dive into Skirmish Matches against the Black Widow, the Eridani Light Horse, House Kurita’s Sword of Light and House Davion’s Foxes Teeth?

I hope these would retain their + and ++ Weapons, Equipment and Lance Abilities! It would make for a challenge of the highest caliber. We can practice on the mundane pre-set Lances, ramping up our knowledge and experience to take on these “Hero Lances.”

It is my hope.

[Mod edit: no polls]

 

[KnightCole]

Special abilities, so thats where the "Devastating Strike" came from when Victoria was slappin' my ass with her Autocannons.

 

[Prussian Havoc]

Special abilities, so thats where the "Devastating Strike" came from when Victoria was slappin' my ass with her Autocannons.

I never noticed that!

Was there an associated Combat Effect? More damage? Critical Hit? More instability?

 

[KnightCole]

I never noticed that!

Was there an associated Combat Effect? More damage? Critical Hit? More instability?

Just an unholy accuracy bonus. Like, from 90% down to 35-40% accuracy, within the confines of the arena kinda ranges. I gave Kamea a fire order after she got hit. Yeah, her Atlas, AC20, 2 LL, 2 MPL, SRM and an LRM 20...she hit with a few missiles....derp. Then my Marauder got double tapped, but I think I waited a turn and the effect went away.

 

[Prussian Havoc]

Just an unholy accuracy bonus. Like, from 90% down to 35-40% accuracy, within the confines of the arena kinda ranges. I gave Kamea a fire order after she got hit. Yeah, her Atlas, AC20, 2 LL, 2 MPL, SRM and an LRM 20...she hit with a few missiles....derp. Then my Marauder got double tapped, but I think I waited a turn and the effect went away.

Yeah, I want to replay the Campaign more than ever now.

Hmm... once my Career is more established (read a HEAVY METAL Heavy Mech or two!) I’ll probably start a Campaign and then pop back and forth between the two. : )

 

[Prussian Havoc]

What I would like to see happen in this thread is some idea generation on how to craft the three remaining “Hero Lances.”

We just might get lucky and HBS be on track for these Lances to come to us in a Future Free Update. We may or may not be in on the ground floor of that effort with HBS still spitballing what the Sword of Light, Foxes Teeth and Eridani Light Horse Lances will include / will have as Lance Abilities... if indeed “Hero Lances” with Lance Abilities are in our future at all.


“Fox’s Teeth” like the Black Widow have their own FASA Expansion Module. Just like the Black Widow had MechWarrior Macclaren with her, I would like to see the Command Lance from the Foxes Teeth brought to Big and Stompy BATTLETECH Skirmish Life. (I don’t have the FASA Module with me atm, but will follow up this post once I get the chance to run it down.)

For House Kurita’s Sword of Light Lance we also have a FASA Module to harken back to. Sorenson’s Sabres looks at a Fifth Sword of Light Company. The Command Lance of this Unit would be a good place to start for the MechWarriors and maybe the BattleMechs (some substitution may be needed of course, just like we saw with the Black Widow’s Lance in HEAVY METAL.) (Same, same as soon as I run down this Module, I’ll post some recommended MechWarriors and Mechs.)


But the Lance I am most excited for and interested by would be the Eridani Light Horse Lance. Mostly because to me it is the most Unknown of the four Hero Lances. The biggest “Blank Canvass” upon which HBS to craft a Lance. As far as I recall there is no companion FASA Module for an Eridani Light Horse Company. Am I wrong in this? Is there a FASA Module or other good reference?



Anyhow, later tonight I’ll run down the Sword of Light, Sorenson’s Sabres and House Davion, Fox’s Teeth Modules and offer up some ideas here,

A fun part of this process for me will be to try and tie their respective Lance’ Abilities to the History and Lore of the Units themselves. We already have the Black Widow’s and Bounty Hunter’s Lance Abilities as exemplars.

This is already FUN... and soon to be even more so! : )

 

[Prussian Havoc]

Let’s begin with House Kurita’s Lance from one of the Sword of Light Regiments. :bow:

Sorenson’s Sabres is a Unit from House Kurita’s 5th Sword of Light. But here it is important to note that unlike the Black Widow’s Command Lance, HBS never directly mentioned Sorenson’s Sabres in their Kickstarter. But given that FASA serves up the Sabre’s Command Lance with such exquisite detail, it’ll serve well to frame what would present a distinctly Kurita-flavored “Hero Lance” for BATTLETECH’s Single Player Skirmish Mode.

To get a feel for FASA’s intention with regard to the Sabres, let’s review the module.

The Commander for Sorenson’s Sabres is Capt. Danial Sorenson and he pilots a Marauder-3R.

His Command Lance includes MechWarrior Shyel “Guts” Gutowski in his Warhammer-6R. MechWarrior Elden “The Shark” Berardinelli in a Bull Shark-3M (in the FASA Module, this character piloted a Samurai Aerospace Fighter. And lastly MechWarrior Izora “Izzy” Soderstrom in a Phoenix Hawk.

Judging by the fluff of the Module, Sorenson’s Sabre Lance Ability should reflect their incorporation of an Aerospace Fighter and a even a Land-Air-Mech into their Company of 10 BattleMechs. To the maximum extent possible. I believe that Lance Abilities should draw on existing BATTLETECH game mechanics, if anything just repackaging and repurposing them as needed. While this would still leave a metric-tonof work for HBS’s Live Support Team to accomplish, at least there would be a solid basis from which to start. Rather than having to create entirely new Abilities out of whole cloth.

For this reason I would like to see the Sorenson’s Sabres Lance Ability be an Off-map Airstrike that heavily draws on the BattleMech Mortar introduced in HEAVY METAL. Not the more powerful Thumper, but the less powerful, smaller Area-of-Effect Mortar blast. But then the AI should have two of these Airstrikes at its disposal.

According to fluff, the Fifth Sword of Light Regiment embraced the concept of “Total War” more closely than their peers. Widely believed to be the Regiment most likely to fight to the death, this philosophy permeates the Fifth Sword. Therefore a possible Lance Secondary Ability (maybe just for Sorenson alone?) could be the presence of a +++Heat Bank in his Marauder. (Again, drawing on existing game mechanics.)


What do you think?

Is there a better House Kurita Sword of Light Lance to recognize?

Better Lance Ability?

All questions, comments and war-stories are welcome. :bow:
And as ever, good luck and good gaming! : )

 

[Kereminde]

To get a feel for FASA’s intention with regard to the Sabres, let’s review the module.

"Starterbook: Sword and Dragon" handles Sorenson's Sabers as well.

 

[Prussian Havoc]

Let’s move on to the House Davion Lance from 7th Crucis Lancers. :bow:

The Fox’s Teeth, also known as McKinnon’s Raiders is a much storied Davion Lance, having participated in insurgencie operations on Kentares during the time of the Kentares Massacre.

To get a feel for FASA’s intention with regard to the Fox’s Teeth, let’s review the module.



The Commander of the Fox’s Teeth is Captian Ian McKinnon and he pilots a Marauder-3R.

His Command Lance includes MechWarrior George Lytton in his Warhammer-6R. As well as MechWarriors Paul Danton and Austin Vorster in their Phoenix Hawk-1K and Vulcan-5T (in lieu of a Stinger) respectively.

Judging by the fluff of the Module, the Fox’s Teeth Lance Ability should reflect their many successful combat engagements executing Raids on behalf of the 7th Crucis Lancers and House Davion. Relying on their inherent Speed as well as on their hallmarks of unerring precision and deadly marksmanship, the Fox’s Teeth proved to be as deadly as they were an elusive fighting force.

For this reason I would like to see the Fox’s Teeth Lance Ability be a +2 To Hit with Ranged Attacks as well as +3 to Melee Defence.

According to fluff a possible Lance Secondary Ability (maybe tied to McKinnon’s Leadership alone?) could be to improve the Initiative Phase of Mechs in the Lance by 1. It would be similar to the Battle Computer on the Cyclops but rather than it be a piece of hardware, this Initiative Boost is borne of the supreme skill and excellent discipline of the Lance’s MechWarriors themselves. While the Melee Hit Defense Bonus of +3 does give form and function to the agility and elusiveness of the Fox’s Teeth, the addition of this significant Initiative Boost more fully approximates what I understand to the distinctiveness of the Unit from reading of the Fox’s Teeth exploits in the FASA Module.


What do you think?

Is there a better Lance Ability?

All questions, comments and war-stories are welcome. :bow:

And as ever, good luck and good gaming! : )

 

[Prussian Havoc]

As for the Eridani Light Horse (ELH) Lance, my initial thoughts are to distill a Lance Anility, MechWarriors and Mechs from the ELH Defense of Hoff, alongside NAIS Forces when they went up against the Black Widow Company.

More on this later...

:bow:

 

[Prussian Havoc]

When it comes to the Eridani Light Horse (ELH), we don’t have a FASA or Catalyst Scenario Pack to reach to in order to flesh out the Personalities and Mechs of any particular Lance. So I turned to other sources to help flesh out an Eridani Light Horse Lance.

Of course Sarna.net proved to have an excellent summary of ELH history: https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Eridani_Light_Horse

And for visuals, @OathOfFealty’s Unit Color Compendium proved to be a very high quality source.


(*images taken from our very own Unit Color Compendium)


After further research, the ELH Defense of Hoff offers some unique and valuable opportunities to portray a distinctive ELH subordinate Unit as well as some Advanced Technology thanks to the Federated Suns and its NAIS Forces who fight alongside ELH Forces during the Black Widow Company’s Raid on Hoff.

Best of all the Black Widow’s Raid on Hoff occurs in 3022 (according to the House Davion Sourcebook) or 3023 (according to Sarna). But either date is well within BATTLETECH’s Timeline of 3022 through early 3028.



While the ELH was active on Hoff, the records I have found don’t offer specific Unit designations. So I’ll take this opportunity to highlight ELH’s Dark Horse Regiment, particularly the 50th Heavy Calvary Battalion.



A Lance from the 50th combined with Advanced Tech noted in Sarna, offers some very interesting possibilities when it comes to fielding a challenging and unique ELH “Hero” Lance in BATTLETECH.

Neither Super Wasp nor Super Griffin BattleMechs are available in BATTLETECH, but Double Heat Sinks are available. If standard BattleMech builds were augmented with Double Heat Sinks, the ELH “Hero” Lance would offer BATTLETECH Skirmish gamers a very challenging and unique opponent.


Absent 50th Heavy Calvary Battalion Lance Composition and Manning information I’ll use a touch of artistic license and pull some famous ELH Family Names from early in its history forward for use in this BATTLETECH Era “Hero” Lance.

The Commander of the ELH Lance is Captain Amanda Armstrong and she pilots an Archer-2S.

Her Command Lance includes MechWarrior Ariana Winston in her Rifleman-3N. (MechWarrior Winston goes on to Command the ELH later in her career.) As well as MechWarriors Julian Bradley and Hertzog Vulmir in their Phoenix Hawk-1 and Griffin-1S respectively.

If Double Heat Sinks are used in place of their Engine Heat Sinks and any extra non-Engine Heat Sinks, these four ELH BattleMechs would constitute a Lance well able to Shoot, Move and Communicate well enough to have its Jump-capable Medium Mechs provide targeting data for its Long Range Direct and Indirect Fire Mechs, all the time leveraging a generous selection of HEAVY METAL BattleMech Quirks.

Judging from ELH History, a “Hero” Lance of the Dark Horse Regiment’s 50th Heavy Calvary Battalion just might have the Lance Ability that breaths Life into its famed ability to conduct Hit and Run Attacks. For this reason I would like to see the Lance Ability of the ELH “Hero” Lance include a Range Finder Effect of 100m (not stackable) and a +2 to Hit Defense for each ELH Mech.

According to fluff a possible Lance Secondary Ability (maybe tied to Armstrong’s Mech alone?) could be a 15% Damage Reduction that reflects her intrinsic Command Abilities and Tactical Acumen in developing and executing Battle Plans that maximize the strengths of her subordinates and their Mechs while minimizing known vulnerabilities and weaknesses.


What do you think?

Is there a better Lance Ability?

All questions, comments and war-stories are welcome. :bow:

And as ever, good luck and good gaming! : )

 

[Havamal]

Sarna is nice but ELH is in here;

 

[Prussian Havoc]

Sarna is nice but ELH is in here;

View attachment 537526

I even have that one on .pdf
I shoulda outa known! : )

brb...

 

[Prussian Havoc]

@Havamal, it has been too long since I reviewed that particular BattleTech reference. As it turns out the “Personnel Roster” section has a name-by-name, Mech-by-Mech listing for ELH. And since the Mercenary Handbook was first published in 1987, the ELH Unit History Section’s last inclusive date was 3025, which makes it PERFECT for use in BATTLETECH.

In reviewing Darkhorse Lances from the 50th Heavy Calvary Battalion, a few Lances appears to be a great fit for this role of BATTLETECH “Hero” Lance. Alas their tonnage is considerably greater than the one I crafted above. If anything this will make use of Double Heat Sinks even easier as it can now be only Engine-External Heat Sinks that need be Double Heat Sinks. But it will drive me to re-look the Secondary Lance Ability as Damage Reduction would imo significantly unhinge the strength of such a Heavy / Assault Lance. A secondary effect is that fewer HEAVY METAL Mech, thus few Mech Quirks will be in play for the new ELH Lance...

...hmm. A revision of the ELH “Hero” Lance is in order, but my time at present is short. I’ll come back and take a shot at getting this right, : )


More to follow...
And thank you for the great catch, Good @Havamal. :bow:

 

[Havamal]

@Havamal, it has been too long since I reviewed that particular BattleTech reference. As it turns out the “Personnel Roster” section has a name-by-name, Mech-by-Mech listing for ELH. And since the Mercenary Handbook was first published in 1987, the ELH Unit History Section’s last inclusive date was 3025, which makes it PERFECT for use in BATTLETECH.
:bow:

Yep.

 

[ranger101]

Hey Prussian Havoc You have done a great job here. FYI: Below is a list of FASA publications containing info on other Mech units if you need to look up information:
Battletech 1605 - Tales of the Black Widow,
BT 1614 Cranston Snord's Irregulars
BT 1616 The Mercenary's Handbook which you have
BT1617 The Gray Death Legion House Steiner
BT 1631 Wolf's Dragoons
BT 1643 Rhonda'a Irregulars took over her father's unit Snord's Irregulars
BT 1651 Rolling Thunder House Marik 1st Regulan Hussars
BT 1652 The Kell Hounds House Steiner
BT 1657 More Tales of the Black Widow
BT 1669 McCarron's Armored Cavalry House Liao
BT 1702 Northwind Highlanders
E-CAT35SSN101 Spotlight on The Crescent Hawks

You may have or not. This is just an FYI. Keep up the good work.

 

[Prussian Havoc]

Hey Prussian Havoc You have done a great job here. FYI: Below is a list of FASA publications containing info on other Mech units if you need to look up information:
Battletech 1605 - Tales of the Black Widow,
BT 1614 Cranston Snord's Irregulars
BT 1616 The Mercenary's Handbook which you have
BT1617 The Gray Death Legion House Steiner
BT 1631 Wolf's Dragoons
BT 1643 Rhonda'a Irregulars took over her father's unit Snord's Irregulars
BT 1651 Rolling Thunder House Marik 1st Regulan Hussars
BT 1652 The Kell Hounds House Steiner
BT 1657 More Tales of the Black Widow
BT 1669 McCarron's Armored Cavalry House Liao
BT 1702 Northwind Highlanders
E-CAT35SSN101 Spotlight on The Crescent Hawks

You may have or not. This is just an FYI. Keep up the good work.

That is a very definitive listing. Thank you Good @ranger101 :bow:


Hmm... this raises the question of whether or not our Modding Community can reach into HEAVY METAL far enough to lift and shift the two “Hero” Lances already in the game and move them (in a Mod) to Single Player Skirmish Mode.

@ronhatch, @Amechwarrior, @CWolfs, @Hobbes__ and any others who may come across this post, is HEAVY METAL malleable enough to make the Bounty Hunter’s and Black Widow’s Command Lances available in Single Player Skirmish Mode?

My gut instinct tells me that since both Lances are behind the HEAVY METAL Pay Wall that this just might be a bridge too far.

But then that brings me full circle and back to @ranger101 ‘s post, is it possible to replicate HEAVY METAL’s “Hero” Lances and Lance-level Special Abilities without delving into HEAVY METAL’s code? Is it possible to craft our Modding Communities very own versions of BattleTech “Hero” Lances, complete with Lance-level abilities across any number of historic or fictional Lances?

And to be clear, this is just a question of possibilities and feasibility. If neither moving the 2 existing “Hero” Lances or making new “Hero” Lances is possible, then its case closed. Similarly if it is possible but would take thousands of hours of coding or modding, then its case closed.

Any and all comments will be very welcome.

And as ever, good luck and good BATTLETECH gaming! : )

 

[ronhatch]

Hmm... this raises the question of whether or not our Modding Community can reach into HEAVY METAL far enough to lift and shift the two “Hero” Lances already in the game and move them (in a Mod) to Single Player Skirmish Mode.

@ronhatch, @Amechwarrior, @CWolfs, @Hobbes__ and any others who may come across this post, is HEAVY METAL malleable enough to make the Bounty Hunter’s and Black Widow’s Command Lances available in Single Player Skirmish Mode?

My gut instinct tells me that since both Lances are behind the HEAVY METAL Pay Wall that this just might be a bridge too far.

My guess would be that it's possible, as long as the mod is used on a system with Heavy Metal enabled. You'd most likely need to use ModTek also, since I've never even heard of a mod that changes DLC content working with the built-in loader.

There's no way to know for sure, though, until somebody actually tries it. (Or, I suppose, digs into the files trying to figure out how to do it and comes up with nothing.) It's just different enough from what other mods are doing to be a big fat unknown.

 

[Havamal]

Greetings,

Might be best to continue the modding discussion branch in the modding subforum.

Thank you.

 

[Prussian Havoc]

@Havamal, I am intrigued by @ronhatch ‘s response. Can you please move this entire thread to the Mod Subforum? I believe this topic is more of a Modding Community opportunity than anything else.