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Velho e Bom Joe

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Feb 15, 2012
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So, I tried googling about this, but didn't find much about it.

Some days ago, I noticed that the eastern coast of Africa isn't so far away from India as, for example Indonesia. Which made me wonder:

You see, Indonesia and SE asia had quite some influence from the Indian subcontinent, be it in religions, architectural styles, etc. Just look at Borobudur in Java.

However, unless I'm simply ignorant of it, there doesn't seem to be as much Indian influence in East Africa. No hindu-style temples, nor Buddhism made much of an impact there (if at all?). What we have today is mostly due to the British Empire.

Why?
Economics? As far as I know, the Swahili coast was very commerce-focused. Was Indonesia just much more "worth it" for Indian merchants?
Geography? Are there some currents that make a trip to Africa much harder than Indonesia? Were the Indian merchants mostly from the Indian regions bordering the Bay of Bengal and thus didn't go much to the other side?
Islam? Did it replace a possible Indianized East Africa much more throughly than in Indonesia?
Or am I just wrong?
 
Depends when you're talking. During the late Middle Ages, they were well-connected. Geography was not an obstacle. The monsoon winds carried ships directly to and fro between India and East Africa (a little less than a month's journey).

Indian trade with East Africa was certain and substantial - Indian cotton cloth was regularly traded for East African gold, ivory, coral, etc. and an important mainstay of the Swahili city-states. Gujurati merchants did frequent the Swahili coast frequently, and there apparently may have been Indian quarters in several of the larger Swahili ports*.

However, the Swahili cities were Muslim from their foundational start (10th C.), thus not particularly receptive to Hinduism or Buddhism. And most of the Indians trading in that region were Muslim as well.

Of course, once the Portuguese arrive, this all goes to hell.

* - Depending on the interpretation of Portuguese reports. In the region, the difference between "Christians" and "Hindus" was not well-understood. As far as the Swahili were concerned, there were Muslims and there were "Others", and they probably couldn't parse the difference between a Christian and Hindu. The Swahili told the Portuguese that there were "Christian quarters" in Kilwa, Mombassa and Malindi. They probably meant Hindu quarters (prob. merchants, pilots, sailors, etc.). To my knowledge, the Portuguese were eager to make contact with these communities, but we never hear what came of it.

On a funny side-note: the Portuguese diarist Alvaro Velho, travelling with Vasco da Gama, reports several "Christian" Indian merchant ships were in Malindi harbor when they anchored there. And that some of these Indian "Christians" (read: Hindus) came aboard the Portuguese ships and "fell into devotions" before the Catholic shrines the Portuguese had aboard their ships (easy to to confuse the garish Renaissance images of the Virgin Mary with Hindu portraits of Durga or Pavarti). And that, as the Indian merchantmen departed Malindi, their crews hailed the Portuguese with rhythmic chants of "Cristo! Cristo! Cristo!" (read: "Krishna! Krishna! Krishna!")

This confusion continued for some time. Even after arriving in India, the Portuguese kept thinking that Hinduism was some Eastern Christian sect, which had developed some curious rituals of its own by being out of contact from the Roman Church for so long. Gama & Co. attended "Christian mass" in Hindu temples in India, and were none the wiser - the only thing they remarked is that there sure was a heck of a lot of ash-tossing during mass. And recommended the crown send some Franciscan friars to teach these long-lost Eastern Christians how proper Christian mass is done, and reconcile the practices of Indian and Roman churches.

The Portuguese eventually did figure out a couple of years later that they had been mistaken - and only because they stumbled across some Syrian Christians in Kerala, and realized that these were true "Eastern Christians", and thus the Hindus must be something else ("mere idolaters"). So, big disappointment that.
 
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Depends when you're talking. During the late Middle Ages, they were well-connected. Geography was not an obstacle. The monsoon winds carried ships directly to and fro between India and East Africa (a little less than a month's journey).

Indian trade with East Africa was certain and substantial - Indian cotton cloth was regularly traded for East African gold, ivory, coral, etc. and an important mainstay of the Swahili city-states. Gujurati merchants did frequent the Swahili coast frequently, and there apparently may have been Indian quarters in several of the larger Swahili ports*.

However, the Swahili cities were Muslim from their foundational start (10th C.), thus not particularly receptive to Hinduism or Buddhism. And most of the Indians trading in that region were Muslim as well.

Of course, once the Portuguese arrive, this all goes to hell.

* - Depending on the interpretation of Portuguese reports. In the region, the difference between "Christians" and "Hindus" was not well-understood. As far as the Swahili were concerned, there were Muslims and there were "Others", and they probably couldn't parse the difference between a Christian and Hindu. The Swahili told the Portuguese that there were "Christian quarters" in Kilwa, Mombassa and Malindi. They probably meant Hindu quarters (prob. merchants, pilots, sailors, etc.). To my knowledge, the Portuguese were eager to make contact with these communities, but we never hear what came of it.

On a funny side-note: the Portuguese diarist Alvaro Velho, travelling with Vasco da Gama, reports several "Christian" Indian merchant ships were in Malindi harbor when they anchored there. And that some of these Indian "Christians" (read: Hindus) came aboard the Portuguese ships and "fell into devotions" before the Catholic shrines the Portuguese had aboard their ships (easy to to confuse the garish Renaissance images of the Virgin Mary with portraits of Durga or Pavarti). And that, as the Indian merchantmen departed Malindi, their crews hailed the Portuguese with rhythmic chants of "Cristo! Cristo! Cristo!" (read: "Krishna! Krishna! Krishna!")

This confusion continued for some time. The Portuguese thought the Hinduism was some Eastern Christian sect, which had developed some curious rituals of its own by being out of contact from the Roman Church for so long. Gama & Co. attended "Christian mass" in Hindu temples in India, and were none the wiser - the only thing they remarked is that there sure was heck of a lot of ash-tossing during mass. And recommended the crown send some Franciscan friars to teach these long-lost Eastern Christians how proper Christian mass is done, and reconcile the practices of Indian and Roman churches.

The Portuguese did figure out a couple of years later that they had been mistaken - largely because they stumbled across some Syrian Christians in Kerala, and realized that these were true "Eastern Christians", and thus the Hindus must be something else ("idolaters"). So, big disappointment that.

So trade in East Africa (Well, East Africa south of ancient Axum) only really took off after Islam became the main religion there?

Also, funny tidbit of history, that of Indian ""Christians"" :D
 
Marco Polo provides second hand descriptions of Africa in his account so connections between Africa and India were strong enough to warrant a mention by him.

Regarding Indonesia, Hindu culture didn't just jump from India to Indonesia, but there was a whole Indic cultural sphere stretching across South and Southeast Asia to Indonesian islands. While there's only an ocean between India and Africa.
 
So trade in East Africa (Well, East Africa south of ancient Axum) only really took off after Islam became the main religion there?

Also, funny tidbit of history, that of Indian ""Christians"" :D

Kinda. There wouldn't have been anyone worth trading with before the Bantu migration settled the region. Although there is reason to believe that there was some trade along the East African coast in pre-Muslim times (it is reported in the 1st C. "Periplus of the Erythraean Sea"), it seemed to move coastally up to the Gulf of Aden rather than directly across the ocean. Direct crossings would have to wait for the development of ocean-going dhows and exploitation of the monsoon patterns (not sure when).

Trade down the East African coast was spearheaded by Somali traders from Mogadishu, and that would have been the initial primary source of cultural influence. Actual erection of the Swahili cities was by Muslim Persians ("Shirazi") in the 10th C.-11th C. So Islam was well established there from the outset. As far as I can tell, there wasn't a single non-Muslim trading settlement anywhere along that coast.


Marco Polo provides second hand descriptions of Africa in his account so connections between Africa and India were strong enough to warrant a mention by him.

Yep. And Polo's account is responsible for one of the biggest geographic mistakes in nomenclature, by confusing Mogadishu with Madagascar. He gave the name of the city-state to the island - "Madagascar" being just Polo's Italianate mangling of "Mogadishu" (Muslim traders called it the "Island of the Moon"). And it has been stuck with it since.

Which let me backtrack for a second. The Muslim Swahili had settlements all along the west coast of Madagascar, but not (as far as I can tell) on the east coast of the island. And we know from accounts that there was trade between India and the east coast as well. (In the "wrong" monsoon season, Madagascar would have been more reachable from India than East Africa - as, by the angle of approach, you wouldn't have to sail headlong against monsoon winds; so it was an alternative out-of-season destination if you didn't want to wait for the monsoon to turn). But I don't recall any account of Hindu influence there.
 
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On a funny side-note: the Portuguese diarist Alvaro Velho, travelling with Vasco da Gama, reports several "Christian" Indian merchant ships were in Malindi harbor when they anchored there. And that some of these Indian "Christians" (read: Hindus) came aboard the Portuguese ships and "fell into devotions" before the Catholic shrines the Portuguese had aboard their ships (easy to to confuse the garish Renaissance images of the Virgin Mary with Hindu portraits of Durga or Pavarti). And that, as the Indian merchantmen departed Malindi, their crews hailed the Portuguese with rhythmic chants of "Cristo! Cristo! Cristo!" (read: "Krishna! Krishna! Krishna!")
Oh, thats a good xmas reading, ill search about that :D
 
Oh, thats a good xmas reading, ill search about that :D

If you can read 15th C. Portuguese, here's the original passage: p.46-47

And dispelling any lingering doubt about the religion of these "Indian Christians", notice the diarist's description about how these men don't eat cow beef ("nam comem carne de boy").
 
Since I don’t have much to add when it comes to Indian influence westwards (the trade ties were indeed strong, but when they were the strongest Muslim merchants, be they Arab, East African, Indian or Persian, dominated the Indian Ocean trade) all I can mention is the reverse of what you ask for (African influence on India).

Sidetrack:
In the late medieval to early modern era, when India had become home to large Muslim states, the Indian Ocean slave trade led to large numbers of Ethiopian slaves ending up exported to India, after having been force converted, trained they were sold to Indian Persianate sultanates as elite warriors, administrators, sailors, etc.

Especially in the Deccan which was conquered late by Delhi and then broke of into the independent Bahmani Sultanate the demand for such slaves was great due to complex conflicts between first and second generation Muslim nobles and the older local aristocracy. Finding trustworthy agents locally in that environment was hard for the Sultans but money was plentiful and Indian Ocean traders could meet this need with East African slaves.

Some of these “Habshis” ended up in very influential positions, one such example is how they as a group they are to be more or less running the entire Ahmadnagar sultanate under the slave prime minister Malik Ambar. Ambar’s Ahmednagar held off the Mughals for decades and pioneered many of the things that would become important parts of the future Maratha states modus operandi, from administration to guerrilla tactics using Maratha horsemen.

Other examples include the Bengal sultanate, which was for a time ruled by an Ethiopian dynasty in the 15th century and the small maritime state of Janjira, with its iconic island fort which lasted into the era of the princely states in British India.

To this day descendants of East Africans in India (Siddis) that came via the Indian Ocean trade routes in the Middle Ages exist in many parts of India. :)
 
Which let me backtrack for a second. The Muslim Swahili had settlements all along the west coast of Madagascar, but not (as far as I can tell) on the east coast of the island. And we know from accounts that there was trade between India and the east coast as well. (In the "wrong" monsoon season, Madagascar would have been more reachable from India than East Africa - as, by the angle of approach, you wouldn't have to sail headlong against monsoon winds; so it was an alternative out-of-season destination if you didn't want to wait for the monsoon to turn). But I don't recall any account of Hindu influence there.
Meanwhile Madagascar's interior is inhabited by people whose language and ethnicity point to a South-Asian origin. Their ancestors probably arrived from Indonesia between 350 BC and 550 AD. Beginning around 1000 AD Bantu speakers pushed them away from the coasts. There's little evidence of lasting trans-Indian Ocean contacts until after the coming of Arab traders in the 7th century and, according to oral traditions, a new influx of Indonesians shortly after - but the initial settlement certainly proves that it's possible to follow that route.
 
Meanwhile Madagascar's interior is inhabited by people whose language and ethnicity point to a South-Asian origin.
Southeast Asian, not South Asian :D

South Asian refers to people from the subcontinent whereas the Austronesian background of both the Malagasy people and their language point to a Southeast Asian origin.
 
* - Depending on the interpretation of Portuguese reports. In the region, the difference between "Christians" and "Hindus" was not well-understood. As far as the Swahili were concerned, there were Muslims and there were "Others", and they probably couldn't parse the difference between a Christian and Hindu. The Swahili told the Portuguese that there were "Christian quarters" in Kilwa, Mombassa and Malindi. They probably meant Hindu quarters (prob. merchants, pilots, sailors, etc.). To my knowledge, the Portuguese were eager to make contact with these communities, but we never hear what came of it.

Hm, just a thought - could it be that the Swahili mixed up Christians and Hindus more or less intentionally?

According to the Quoran, both Christians and Jews should be at least tolerated. Pagans on the other hand don't get this treatment. So by declaring the Hindus as "Christians" the Swahili are not breaking any religious laws for tolerating them in their cities, thus allowing for profitable trade with them. This would not be the case if the Indians were classified as pagans.
 
Hm, just a thought - could it be that the Swahili mixed up Christians and Hindus more or less intentionally?

According to the Quoran, both Christians and Jews should be at least tolerated. Pagans on the other hand don't get this treatment. So by declaring the Hindus as "Christians" the Swahili are not breaking any religious laws for tolerating them in their cities, thus allowing for profitable trade with them. This would not be the case if the Indians were classified as pagans.

Well, the Delhi Sultanate, Moghul Empire, etc. all worked well enough with Hindu populations.

I'm assuming most Swahili simply never saw a Christian before, so wouldn't know how to recognize one. The closest Christian power is Ethiopia, and that was landlocked and far away. They would have only met Muslims, Hindus and Bantu religions with any regularity. There might be the occasional Christian or Jew from India passing by, but they would likely be thought of as just another sect. After all, Hinduism is not a unitary religion, and they didn't define themselves as such. What's another cult of Yahweh or Jesus alongside the cults of Vishnu or Shiva or Buddha for that matter? It's all miscellaneous "other".

When the Portuguese arrived, they were very paranoid about being discovered as Christian interlopers venturing in Muslim waters. But the Swahili didn't seem to know or care. They initially assumed they were Turks - light complexion, didn't speak Arabic, carried guns, etc. Only later, when the Portuguese revealed themselves as non-Muslim "Christians", did the Swahili reply something along the lines of "Oh, we got Christians living here too" (meaning Hindus).

Neither the Swahili nor the Portuguese could tell the difference between Christians and Hindus.

Nor, apparently, could those Indian merchantmen in Malindi. Those Catholic shrines sure seemed pretty Hindu to them. ;)
 
Southeast Asian, not South Asian :D

South Asian refers to people from the subcontinent whereas the Austronesian background of both the Malagasy people and their language point to a Southeast Asian origin.
Irrelevant to Abdul's point. People from the Indian trade sphere crossed the ocean by a southern route and landed on Madagascar, is that better?
 
Irrelevant to Abdul's point. People from the Indian trade sphere crossed the ocean by a southern route and landed on Madagascar, is that better?
Definitely more accurate than the one previous.
 
they would likely be thought of as just another sect. After all, Hinduism is not a unitary religion, and they didn't define themselves as such. What's another cult of Yahweh or Jesus alongside the cults of Vishnu or Shiva or Buddha for that matter? It's all miscellaneous "other".

Hinduism was "invented" by the British raj. India had lots of different relgious "cults" that were related to each other somewhat and differed according to which part of India you wre in. The British bracketed the whole lot together as "Hindu" but there was no such indigenous term or even concept before the 19th century. For some reason that I do not understand the Jains were left out of the Hindu category.

But of course if we are talking about ancient India, India was largely Buddhist for centuries, before reverting back to Buddhist influenced Hinduism.
 
But of course if we are talking about ancient India, India was largely Buddhist for centuries, before reverting back to Buddhist influenced Hinduism.
Eh... Not really.

The only time it had ascendency throughout nearly all of the subcontinent was during the Maurya Dynasty which only lasted for around a century and a half (322 BCE to 180 BCE). Even then, it only gained primacy under Ahsoka in the latter-half of his reign, which meant Buddhism was only the state religion for roughly 7 or 8 decades till the Guptas overthrew them. The only time Buddhism would return near similar level of primacy was under the Pala Dynasty, whose rule lasted for only 4 centuries (8th century CE to the 12th century CE). Yet even then, their suzerainty was for the most part limited to Bengal, with some expansion into what is now modern day Uttar Pradesh. The rest of the subcontinent however was ruled by non-Buddhists, as it was in the centuries preceeding the Palas, with the notable exception of the Anuradhapura Kingdom in Sri Lanka.

Buddhism did have profound effects on "Hinduism" in general though. A rough analogy with Christianity would be to think of Buddha as Martin Luther, but one who succeeded in directly reforming the Catholic faith.
 
For some reason that I do not understand the Jains were left out of the Hindu category.

Like Buddhists, they reject the authority of the Vedas and disbelieve the efficacy of Hindu ritual sacrifices.
 
Just stumbled on this article on Malik Ambar - a slave of Ethiopian extraction who later came to lead a group of mercenaries before coming into the service of the Sultan of Ahmednagar and eventually rising to the rank of Grand Vizier and later Regent. He was particularly famous for fighting the mighty Mughals to a standstill but also for the architectural he left behind as well.

His life bears a rather eerie parallel to that of the famous Samuel HaNagid, an initerant Andalusian Jewish merchant who himself became Grand Vizier to the Taifa of Grenada during the Islamic Golden Age.
 
...unless I'm simply ignorant of it, there doesn't seem to be as much Indian influence in East Africa. No hindu-style temples, nor Buddhism made much of an impact there (if at all?). What we have today is mostly due to the British Empire. Why?

You've already gotten great answers. I'll just mention that if you're interested in this area before the Muslim invasions you really should go to archive.org and get a copy of the Periplus of the Erythraean Sea. Schoff's translation is accurate and terse and has great notes for each item. The crux of your question is answered above: the routes started as coasting trade, giving locals more importance than the Indians.

To add a bit: Even the early monsoon routes aimed for the Gulf of Aden, not the Protoswahili Coast. There were piles of Indian ships at the ports on both sides of the gulf that sat idle waiting for the winds to change, so no doubt there would've been some places for them set aside by the locals. You've had a millennium and a half of Muslim rule to erase their idolatry, but if the area were ever safe enough for archaeological work they'd probably find linga & whatnot in excavations. It may not happen in our lifetimes.