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Jorlaan

Victorian Rabble Rouser
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Jul 16, 2011
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I am looking to expand further on the US Civil War.
I need recommendations on books for some of the people. There are just so many books on some of them and reviews can vary.
Grant, Sherman and Lee are my primaries right now. Others like Longstreet, Forrest, McClellan and Davis are also appreciated. I already have a book or two on Lincoln although if you think one is particularly good I'm not adverse.

As well I need books about weapons. I know books exist about small arms, rifles and such. Ideally something that goes through the evolution of weaponry throughout the war would be great. I know a general breakdown of this already but more depth would be awesome. Rifles and artillery are the main focus there, but all small arms and weapons of the war are good to have knowledge of.

I have already read Battle Cry of Freedom by James McPherson and found it excellent and very informative on things like politics, economics and a good general history; and am ordering The Civil War by Shelby Foote at some point, it's not cheap even used.
 
Good man. I see your quest for knowledge continues.

You and I began a discussion like this over at Ultimate General: Civil War, and you might like this story.

I was talking to one of my daughter's teachers the other day. He is a published author with a PhD in history from Virginia who is now the director of the school's Humanities department. They are about to move into a section on The Civil War and I told them Game Labs would be happy to donate install codes for UG:CW to anyone who wanted one as an advanced tutorial on Linear Tactics. And he got really excited and admitted his own interest in history came from a Civil War game he played incessantly back in high school. And this, truly, are the value of games like this, they inspire deeper understanding (Or create Wheraboos of all flavors) and teach the individual to look at the larger world around them (Or shave their head and tattoo 88 all over their body).

Few people do historical immersion better than Paradox, and that requires research and listening over a very long period of time. I know I have learned a great deal from their games and this entire community that has grown up around them. And I find it teaches you the ability to articulate both sides of an argument with equal fluency, and thereby learn to understand that much better.

In my own humble opinion based on a lifetime of watching this conflict, a balance of understanding is crucial. You cannot listen to one side and not the other. My family was tied to the rail road industry for generations. We fought for the North, but moved South to build the Missouri Pacific and establish industry to service the trains. I grew up being forced to understand both sides of the situation simoultaneously. My sympathies like with the North and Union, but I have zero problem whistling Dixie on cue with passion and fervor.

I have compassion for the ex-slaves whose lives I have seen up close and personal from infancy forward, who I have lived among my entire life. I also have compassion for the ex-Confederates who had nothing to do with slavery who fought to protect their homes which were bulldozed by the war effort. The South isn't all bad, the North isn't an altruistic army of liberators.

There is an old saying, "There are three sides to every story". This is especially true with this war. Sooner or later, because they always do, someone is going to show up and say that only X is the proper explanation because it is the only one smiled upon by the modern world. At that point, it is your own choice. I encourage you to get everyone's opinion, from multiple time periods, and whenever possible listen to to the words of the individuals who were actually there and what their understanding and motivations were. It is a marvelous exercise in 'Compare and Contrast'. A rich tapestry of humanity.

Focus on the intent of the rail road professionals who brought this matter to a head in the first place and who hammered it to a close: Lincoln, Grant, Sherman. Remember that Sherman's views on race relations resemble what will become known as Aryan Supremacy. And then look what they did with the country when The Great Captain, Grant, had it in his possession after the war. Freedom for the enslaved is an afterthought, it isn't their driving purpose. And it is a pity it was handled in the manner it was.

Make sure you incorporate the Telegraph as a modern weapon into the mix. Feel free to contrast the savvy and elan of Confederate troops with the clueless grasp on reality of the Plantation Class and their totally inefficient form of government. And then you have the marvels of Northern industry hamstrung by political generals who were incompetent at best and lethal to the men under their command at worse.
 
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I did like that story thank you. I always appreciate hearing that people are willing to embrace technology and gaming as teaching aides when applicable. Paradox games in particular have actually shown me some very interesting things that I have gone on to read about. I will not lie that my current (minor) obsession with the US Civil War is due in part to playing UG:CW. That game is just so damn well done, the maps are wonderful and the campaign is so much bloody fun, especially with J&P mod.

I have always had a passion for history, ever since I can remember it has been fascinating to me. From my mom teaching me about Rome and Greece, to becoming rather involved with WW1/2 research over the years which led me to wanting to know how it all got there...and back and back we go.

I firmly believe in education for education's sake. No one "knows enough" IMO, we could all stand to learn more about most things. The more I learn about the world and it's history, the more I learn about the world today, but also about myself. I will never be done, I will read and learn until the day I die. Information changes, we learn new things and what we learned in school becomes outdated and eventually maybe even flat out wrong. Too many people seem to feel that since they graduated, they're done. School is 40+ years behind for some people I debate with, they don't keep up with science or modern history theory, they don't really read anything beyond what reinforces things they already believe; yet theirs is the generation running the world largely and I see the same behavior from the very people in charge. I am a nobody but I will never stop.

As for the Civil War, I do indeed look at both sides, part of why I want books on people from both sides. It was a very complicated war. When asked why he was fighting, one southern soldier responded "because you are here". I always knew if a foreign country invaded my home I would stand up and fight, so what's so different? They saw themselves as having the legal right to succeed, whether they were right or not is a matter of historical and scholarly debate. The war started because of slavery, but it was not a goal at the beginning to end the institution and most of the people who fought weren't fighting for slaves as far as I can tell. The poor southerner was largely fighting because a "foreign army" invaded his home. The poor northerner fought for a myriad of reasons like a steady job, adventure, or maintaining the Union.

The vast level of incompetence shown by many northern leaders in the first couple years is staggering to my eyes and I can envision some scenarios where continued incompetence could have led to a stalemate and an accepting of southern independence. However there was also a vast amount of incompetence in the leadership of the south, first and foremost their president, who seemed to have insisted on doing FAR too much himself, including a great many minor things that a president really needs to delegate. Not to mention the fact that their whole "states rights" approach to nationhood really hurt them in their collective defense and overall ability to get much done.

The railroad, the telegraph, rifled muskets, ironclad warships; many innovations were used to great effect in this war and I do indeed study those things on their own, so I can try and place them in proper historical context and how they shaped the world and the war. I'm currently reading (slowly) a book about the overall history of the railroad. I'm pretty sure it has a specific chapter on the Civil War. But from reading I've already done I know how important it was and how influential a very few people were in it's use during the war in particular. Names I cannot recall offhand but that's why I have my own library, small as it may be it grows every year.
 
There is an abridged version of US Grant's autobiography dealing with the Civil War - Personal Memoirs of US Grant i think is the title of the full book. it's amazing - Grant was famous for being able to write clear, concise orders and his Civil War memoirs are illuminating and invaluable. Clear to the point that you almost don't need maps and so well written people suspected his friend Sam Clemens ghost-wrote them (not true). Absolutely essential resource; not completely even-handed (his biases against McClernand and for Sherman and Sheridan are clear) but pretty balanced overall.

I also recommend the West Point Atlas of the Civil War for the amazing maps. In many cases they include sketches showing what the commanders 'thought' they saw as well as detailed maps showing what the terrain and troop movements really looked like.

if you are looking for a great story-telling of the Civil War story, read Shelby Foote's trilogy. The history part is fairly basic but Foote knew how to spin a yarn, and this is an epic non-fiction account, more readable than Battle Cry of Freedom (which I love and would recommend if you hadn't already read it). The Bruce Catton trilogy is also well-told.
 
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There is an abridged version of US Grant's autobiography dealing with the Civil War - Personal Memoirs of US Grant i think is the title of the full book. it's amazing - Grant was famous for being able to write clear, concise orders and his Civil War memoirs are illuminating and invaluable. Clear to the point that you almost don't need maps and so well written people suspected his friend Sam Clemens ghost-wrote them (not true). Absolutely essential resource; not completely even-handed (his biases against McClernand and for Sherman and Sheridan are clear) but pretty balanced overall.

I also recommend the West Point Atlas of the Civil War for the amazing maps. In many cases they include sketches showing what the commanders 'thought' they saw as well as detailed maps showing what the terrain and troop movements really looked like.

if you are looking for a great story-telling of the Civil War story, read Shelby Foote's trilogy. The history part is fairly basic but Foote knew how to spin a yarn, and this is an epic non-fiction account, more readable than Battle Cry of Freedom (which I love and would recommend if you hadn't already read it). The Bruce Catton trilogy is also well-told.

Do you know the story on this book about Grant?

The Great Captain, former president of the United States, is about to die of throat cancer. Penniless. Mark Twain publishes this book himself and gives ALL the revenue to Grant's estate, forcing Twain to go on a world wide tour to pay back his own personal losses on the deal.
 
Twain hooked Grant up with his (Twain's) publisher. Grant didn't want to write it, thought no-one would buy it, but his death would leave his family penniless and Twain was insistent. The book was an immediate and enormous commercial success, closing out Grant's debts and allowing his family a sizable income. I'm not aware that Twain incurred any loss on it; I thought that was due to a different deal, but I don't know.

Grant finished proof-reading the book as he was dying of throat cancer and forced himself to stay alive despite terrible pain until it was done. The throat cancer was probably due to the cases and cases of cigars sent to him after the Battle of Shiloh, where one newspaperman had him calmly standing beneath a tree and smoking a cigar. That's about as truthful as most newspaper accounts of the day, but it got him a lifetime supply of cigars.

Stories of the 'butcher Grant' began circulating after the Southern apologists started rewriting history around the 'Glorious Cause'. In fact, Grant lost fewer men than Lee - and fewer men in attacks, too. Most of his battles are examples of how to do it right, at least by the standards of the Civil War, and the Vicksburg Campaign is simply masterful. The Overland and Appomattox Campaigns are also worthy of study. The one contrary example is Cold Harbor - which Grant said, to his death, was a tragic miscalculation. I do have enormous respect for Grant as a commander and historian - and rather less as President.
 
Twain hooked Grant up with his (Twain's) publisher. Grant didn't want to write it, thought no-one would buy it, but his death would leave his family penniless and Twain was insistent. The book was an immediate and enormous commercial success, closing out Grant's debts and allowing his family a sizable income. I'm not aware that Twain incurred any loss on it; I thought that was due to a different deal, but I don't know.

Grant finished proof-reading the book as he was dying of throat cancer and forced himself to stay alive despite terrible pain until it was done. The throat cancer was probably due to the cases and cases of cigars sent to him after the Battle of Shiloh, where one newspaperman had him calmly standing beneath a tree and smoking a cigar. That's about as truthful as most newspaper accounts of the day, but it got him a lifetime supply of cigars.

Stories of the 'butcher Grant' began circulating after the Southern apologists started rewriting history around the 'Glorious Cause'. In fact, Grant lost fewer men than Lee - and fewer men in attacks, too. Most of his battles are examples of how to do it right, at least by the standards of the Civil War, and the Vicksburg Campaign is simply masterful. The Overland and Appomattox Campaigns are also worthy of study. The one contrary example is Cold Harbor - which Grant said, to his death, was a tragic miscalculation. I do have enormous respect for Grant as a commander and historian - and rather less as President.

Yes. For the most part I largely agree.

My family was a strong supporter of the Great Captain, and profited mightily by his presidency - but I share the same opinion as you do. A lion on the battlefield with Bill Sherman as his maneuver commander roaming the edges and Phil Sheridan riding the other side. He had an incredibly ability to sink deep into concentration, even in battle, and was unflappable. It was only when nothing was going on and he got bored that he got into trouble and Julia Grant had to be dispatched to keep him in line - Lincoln was very aware of this and kept Julia near Sam the whole time he was C in C of the Union Army. But, Grant's presidency was a head on a totem pole run by moneyed interests and it took until Ronald Reagan to have a more corrupt presidency than Grant's.

Regarding Twain and Grant:

Grant traveled the world after his presidency and lived the high life. He returned home to find his name and his fortune shattered by a Ponzi scheme. He confided this to his friend, Mark Twain, who encouraged him to finish his memoirs of which he did the final edit almost on his deathbed. Twain is the publisher on record through the Charles L. Webster Publishing House and paid for the publishing of Grant's Memoirs himself. The book sold out overnight. Twain gave all the profits to The Great Captain's family, keeping none for himself despite his own financial woes.

Twain was already himself deep in debt because of a prolonged investment in an automatic typesetting machine that showed promise but failed become stable. Twain went bankrupt and refused to touch Grant's money, and went on world tour to recover his finances and allowed a financial manager to put him on a strict allowance until he was liquid once again.

The Publishing company could easily have kept the lion's share of the profits and solved Twain's liquidity problem by paying the writer the usual commission, but Grant is a pillar of this nation and Mark Twain was a man of fine sensibilities and good horse sense.

Let me end by saying there are three sides to every story. I support the North, I grew up in the South, I have seen both arguments first hand and people who argue this side or that side held the moral compass are both wrong. The concept of lumping every individual who tries to rationally represent the South under a massive umbrella pejoratively entitled 'Southern Apologism' is as foolish as selling the false narrative that the United States fought the War of the Rebellion to end slavery. It sounds great, but it is a lie and has absolutely nothing to do with the vast majority of men who spent time in the trenches on either side.

Simply put. The men of the North fought to preserve the Union, the men of the South fought because the Northerners were 'down here'. While there were notable exceptions on both sides - you can put Robert Gould Shaw in one hand and N.B. Forrest in the other - they are exceptions and not the rule.

Slavery is an awful institution and having lived with the result of this war first hand I can tell you it could not have been handled worse. But 'Preservation of the Union' and expansion of the railroad interests seeking to expand commercial endeavors, these are the martial forces that rose up to the challenge thrown down by the Fire Eaters in that hotbed of evil: Charleston, South Carolina - a city founded as a colony of Barbados, a slave port deep in voodoo country where even the church and the homes are painted to ward off spirits, and a place not to make rational decisions that drag an entire nation into war.
 
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I also grew up in the South and have always favored the Northern point-of-view. I've no quibble with anything you've said. And for anyone who doubts, look it up - Reagan had the most administration officials forced out, indicted and/or convicted of any President in history (though the record is currently under siege).

Personally, I think that if the South had waited for an actual, rather than a potential, cause for war, many in the North might have been willing to let them go. But a hothead's gonna do what a hothead's gonna do...

I've touched on it twice - once in 'The Most Hated Man in the Southern States', where the South does win and then centrifugally splinters with some states rejoining the Union and others forming 'rotten-cotton republics', and again in 'A Special Providence', where the South wins de facto independence without a fight and then plunges into a hot war for Kentucky and Missouri (and North Carolina - Victoria 2 is sometimes weird). Overall, I don't think the South could win a war if the North wanted to fight it out, and I don't think a Southern Confederacy would have been stable or sustainable given the men who formed and ran it.

But we are off the topic... I also recommend 'the Bloody Crucible of Courage' by Brent Nosworthy. A detailed look at Civil-War-era weapons, tactics and the interactions thereof.
 
when i was a middle schooler i got really into the civil war, thanks to Mr. Ken Burns.

I asked my mom to subscribe to the TIME-LIFE book series -

iu


We've got every volume still. THEY ARE FANTASTIC. Beautiful art, really good writing, detailed descriptions of the military campaigns. Covers virtually every part of the war, from battles in Indian Country to the constant skirmishing on the Carolina coast. I think there's like 40 volumes.
 
when i was a middle schooler i got really into the civil war, thanks to Mr. Ken Burns.

I asked my mom to subscribe to the TIME-LIFE book series -

iu


We've got every volume still. THEY ARE FANTASTIC. Beautiful art, really good writing, detailed descriptions of the military campaigns. Covers virtually every part of the war, from battles in Indian Country to the constant skirmishing on the Carolina coast. I think there's like 40 volumes.

Time Life series on the Civil War. I let my little brother keep our copy. Edited by Norman P. Ross and his son, a maternal uncle in law and elder cousin respectively. The first is no longer with us, the other in retirement out near where @robw963 lives.

I will send him your regards, Yak. And will tell him to consider it very high praise indeed and will give him your full backstory as I know it. I think he will be amused and proud.
 
Time Life series on the Civil War. I let my little brother keep our copy. Edited by Norman P. Ross and his son, a maternal uncle in law and elder cousin respectively. The first is no longer with us, the other in retirement out near where @robw963 lives.

I will send him your regards, Yak. And will tell him to consider it very high praise indeed and will give him your full backstory as I know it. I think he will be amused and proud.
very cool. probably better that you do it rather than i, as i wouldn't shut up about how good these are.
 
My father left me his collection along with all his Catton paperbacks.