Matignon Agreements (1936)

[Sunforged General]

The Matignon Agreements of 1936 helped increase the standard of living in France by a tremendous amount, increasing wages and introducing paid vacations, as well as strongly guaranteeing the right to collective bargaining. Other benefits include a 40 hour work week, paid 48 hours, and illegality to force workers to work more than 40 hours.

In your opinion did this make France the world leader of quality of life in the 30s? From what I've read, 50-60 hour work weeks were the norm in Hitler's Germany. Meanwhile in Britain and the US, wages were still low due to the lingering depression. In Italy, Unions were crushed, replaced with "labor courts" that sided with employers, and wages artificially kept low by the Labour Charter of 1927. Standard of living in the USSR and Japan were not comparable to the west, let alone France.

 

[Herbert West]

Why does this read suspiciously like an essay question you want us to write in your stead?

 

[Sunforged General]

Why does this read suspiciously like an essay question you want us to write in your stead?

Well I'm not a history major, nor in any history class at this time. What English language history class would even talk about the Matignon Agreements? The Anglo-Saxon world highly downplays French history.

My intent is to draw a comparison between working conditions in late 1930s France vs the rest of the world.

 

[Herbert West]

Well I'm not a history major, nor in any history class at this time. What English language history class would even talk about the Matignon Agreements? The Anglo-Saxon world highly downplays French history.

My intent is to draw a comparison between working conditions in late 1930s France vs the rest of the world.

Then cite some sources.
Provide some PPP salary comparisons.
Make an argument based on something, don't just throw an assertion out there.

I'll start with a really easy one: were these rights actually upheld and enforced, or did they exist merely on paper?

 

[Sunforged General]

Then cite some sources.
Provide some PPP salary comparisons.
Make an argument based on something, don't just throw an assertion out there.

I'll start with a really easy one: were these rights actually upheld and enforced, or did they exist merely on paper?

"In your opinion did this make France the world leader of quality of life in the 30s?" I asked a question..since when do questions require sources?!

As far as I know the Matignon agreements were upheld until Vichy France temporarily abolished them. The French working 40 hours and Germans being forced to work 50-60 hours part comes from "García, Hugo, Mercedes Yusta, Xavier Tabet, and Cristina Clímaco, eds. Rethinking Antifascism: History, Memory and Politics, 1922 to the Present. Berghahn Books, 2016, pp.53-54"

The Depression causing low wages in Britain and US should be obvious.

The Italian anti Union activity and suppression of wages comes from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_Charter_of_1927#Content

The USSR and Japan having lower quality of life than western Europe should be obvious.

 

[Geriander]

These were the early days of Nordic Welfare states so they may be the top compettitors. Hard to find PPP adjusted wage-levels though.

 

[Pero Coveilha]

As far as I know the Matignon agreements were upheld until Vichy France temporarily abolished them.

No, it was upheld until the end of the Front populaire governments (Blum and then Chautemps), ie 1938.

As for international comparisons, I don't have a clue.

 

[Sunforged General]

No, it was upheld until the end of the Front populaire governments (Blum and then Chautemps), ie 1938.

As for international comparisons, I don't have a clue.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matignon_Agreements_(1936)#Legacy

"The délégués du personnel were suppressed under Vichy, and re-established by the 16 April 1945 Act passed by the GPRF provisional government."

 

[Geriander]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matignon_Agreements_(1936)#Legacy

"The délégués du personnel were suppressed under Vichy, and re-established by the 16 April 1945 Act passed by the GPRF provisional government."

Isn't that only the part about union representatives "délégués du personnel" as opposed to the whole agreement?

 

[Pero Coveilha]

Yeah. As for the 40hrs, it was repelled under the Daladier government, as I said.

 

[Henry IX]

The French have been leaders in workers rights for most of the 20th century and during the interwar period they probably had one of the highest standards of living for workers in Europe. However, even with the low wages during the depression, American workers enjoyed a standard of living significantly higher than those found anywhere in Europe. Their wages were higher and the purchasing power of those wages was also higher dollar for dollar. Of course for the massive numbers of the unemployed conditions were very bad, with virtually no state support prior to the New Deal, and this gives rise to images of poverty we are familiar with.

For those workers who continued to hold full time work the depression was often a time of significant material comfort, as the wage stagnation and reductions were smaller than the deflation in living costs, particularly food, leaving them with greater disposable incomes.

In agriculture there was a very different picture with the global collapse of commodity prices leading to widespread rural poverty. In France, although the agricultural sector was hard hit, its generally high levels of mechanisation and comparative efficiency led to a smaller reduction of standard of living than in America. The French also had fairly high agricultural tariffs and were largely self sufficient in food production, which insulated their economy from some of the worst shocks in global food prices.

On the other hand, French industry was left in a very weak position after the Great Depression and the improvement in workers' conditions came a significant price for many sectors. This is part of the reason for the fairly anaemic response of French industry to the increase in military demand in the late 1930s - they lacked the spare capital to rapidly bring on additional capacity once the excess capacity left over from the Depression was used up. All of this meant that unemployment remained a problem for the French economy until the general draft sucked all of the spare workers into the army.

Again, like America this left the unemployed in a dire situation, although for different reasons. Unlike America food prices remained fairly high, which left those without regular work in a situation of potentially serious nutritional deficiency.

 

[khedas]

The French working 40 hours and Germans being forced to work 50-60 hours part comes from "García, Hugo, Mercedes Yusta, Xavier Tabet, and Cristina Clímaco, eds. Rethinking Antifascism: History, Memory and Politics, 1922 to the Present. Berghahn Books, 2016, pp.53-54"

Ok, let me stop you a bit here.

I know many posters are young, but I expected more from this part of the Forums.

For you youngsters that never experienced it, most of Europe used to work 6 days a week (Saturday was a normal workday). It was the US in 1926 (through Ford) that created the 5-day workweek (we called it the 'American Workweek' over here).

But that system was NOT immediately copied throughout Europe, with few exceptions (France being one of them).

It took a LONG time for the 5-day week to carry to all Europe. I remember very well having to work Saturdays like everyone else until the early 1970s (and before that going to school on Saturdays, too), and it only felt bad when we knew that Americans had it different (otherwise it felt 'ok' because it was the 'social norm').

So when you work 8 hours a day for 6 days [and many companies basically required 10 hours or more], 50-60 hour workweeks are common. "Germans being 'forced' to work 50-60 hours a week" is just gaslighting to say "Germans worked the same as the vast majority of Europeans (and most Americans) of the period", the author taking advantage of the fact that most of his readers will be far too young to have any memory of how things were before.

 

[Sunforged General]

Ok, let me stop you a bit here.

I know many posters are young, but I expected more from this part of the Forums.

For you youngsters that never experienced it, most of Europe used to work 6 days a week (Saturday was a normal workday). It was the US in 1926 (through Ford) that created the 5-day workweek (we called it the 'American Workweek' over here).

But that system was NOT immediately copied throughout Europe, with few exceptions (France being one of them).

It took a LONG time for the 5-day week to carry to all Europe. I remember very well having to work Saturdays like everyone else until the early 1970s (and before that going to school on Saturdays, too), and it only felt bad when we knew that Americans had it different (otherwise it felt 'ok' because it was the 'social norm').

So when you work 8 hours a day for 6 days [and many companies basically required 10 hours or more], 50-60 hour workweeks are common. "Germans being 'forced' to work 50-60 hours a week" is just gaslighting to say "Germans worked the same as the vast majority of Europeans (and most Americans) of the period", the author taking advantage of the fact that most of his readers will be far too young to have any memory of how things were before.

The Matignon Agreements making it illegal to make people work more than 40 hours a week in France is a fact. It also gaurented 48 hours worth of pay, for 40 hours of work. It was passed by the popular front, which was an alliance of all the left wing parties in the French govt. In the 1930s, including the French communist party, which had seats in the French Senate.

The Matignon Agreements also strengthened Unions, increased pay, and gaurenteed all French workers at least 2 weeks paid vacation per year. What you experienced in various parts of Europe is irrelevant. I'm pretty sure you were not alive in 1930s France.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matig...une_general_strike_and_the_Matignon_agreements

As for the German work week being common, not really, Britain too had a strong labor movement, And Chamberlain passed some laws reducing the work week, especially for women and children. Meanwhile in Germany, people were pressed to work longer week, to speed up the re-armament process.

 

[Geriander]

As the Wiki article is very short I decided to do some digging. Frace since 1870 by Charles Sowewine, seems to back up that most of the agreement, including the 40-hour work week, was ended by Daladier in 1938. Furthermore, the wage gains from the agreement were eliminated in practise in 1937 by the devaluation of the Franc.

Paid holidays and union representatives were the parts that lasted.

 

[Sunforged General]

As the Wiki article is very short I decided to do some digging. Frace since 1870 by Charles Sowewine, seems to back up that most of the agreement, including the 40-hour work week, was ended by Daladier in 1938. Furthermore, the wage gains from the agreement were eliminated in practise in 1937 by the devaluation of the Franc.

Paid holidays and union representatives were the parts that lasted.

Yes people keep bringing up the fact that Daladier got rid of the 40 hour work week due to the threat of Germany, however, after the war the new French government restored many of the Matignon rights, though I cant find a list of exactly what was restored, or if all of it was.

 

[Geriander]

Yes people keep bringing up the fact that Daladier got rid of the 40 hour work week due to the threat of Germany, however, after the war the new French government restored many of the Matignon rights, though I cant find a list of exactly what was restored, or if all of it was.

In the late 1940’s the French workweek was 48 hours so if it was restored to 40 hours, it didn’t last long.

 

[Gordy]

The Factory's Act (1850) gave British employees Saturday afternoon off.

 

[khedas]

In the late 1940’s the French workweek was 48 hours so if it was restored to 40 hours, it didn’t last long.

Yes, it was the European workweek. Saturdays were workdays - 48 hours week.

In the mid 70s we got half Saturday off, too. Only had to work in the morning. We were so happy.

Also, we didn't just go home when your time was up. We HAD to ask for permission from our superiors to leave, and if they said we had to work more, we stayed and worked.

The Factory's Act (1850) gave British employees Saturday afternoon off.

But at the same time increased the work week to 60 hours. Also, note that these 19th-century Acts ONLY applied to textile mill and Factory workers, NOT to the rest of the population.

http://foundations.uwgb.org/labor-laws/

The need for laws regulating labor was becoming crucial to many working families, so much so that a committee was put together in order to accomplish this. William Cooper, a factory and mills worker, was brought in to be examined by the Sadler Committee on the Bill to Regulate the Labour of Children in the Mills and Factories of the United Kingdom.

 

[Pero Coveilha]

Yes people keep bringing up the fact that Daladier got rid of the 40 hour work week due to the threat of Germany, however, after the war the new French government restored many of the Matignon rights, though I cant find a list of exactly what was restored, or if all of it was.

The 40 hours work week was nominally reinstalled right after the war, but in practice people worked more and more till the 60's and the additional hours were paid as overtime. It's only at the beginning of the 80's that it was fully restored, it even passed to 39 hrs.
Union rights were restored (and even expanded) with the first governments of the 4th Republic.

The Factory's Act (1850) gave British employees Saturday afternoon off.

La semaine anglaise as we called it here.

 

[JodelDiplom]

I went to school in West Germany in the the 1990s and still remember having school on saturday mornings. Only the most boring (to students) and least respected (by other teachers) classes were given to saturday slot so we had music class from 8 to 9h40 and art class from 10 to 11h30 or so. As sixth graders we didn't appreciate such cultivated saturday classes and just sullenly sat through the lessons and gave the teachers a hard time.