The Schleswig-Holstein Question led into two European Conflicts in the 19th century

[Jopa79]

The Jutland peninsula. The Schleswig-Holstein Question led for a two-round military conflict between Denmark and the Confederation of Germany - the First Schleswig War (1848-1851) and the Second Schleswig War (1864). Schleswig (bright red&brown) Holstein (yellow).

Border disputes between neighboring states are pretty common - as well wars between states pretty often have roots due border disputes. In the 19th century a complex set of diplomatic, historical and cultural issues raised tension and pressure about two Duchies - Schleswig and Holstein and their relations to the Danish Crown and the German Confederation.

Since the 12th century (Schleswig became a Danish Duchy) until the 19th Denmark repeatedly tried to integrate Schleswig into the Danish Crown. There was also the question - characterized by the 19th century - of nationality and language. Both - the Danish Crown and the German Confederation justified their claims on to these two Duchies by referring into the past - the fragments of history, cultural practices and dialects. Still, the most decisive question was an international - notably Great Britain opposed the German rise into a sea-power.

Holstein being in this international question also relates to the age-old Treaty of Ribe - in the 15th century Christian I of Denmark became Count of Holstein and he further proclaimed, Denmark should regain the control of lost Duchy of Schleswig and Schleswig-Holstein should never again be partitioned, but always be together.

While the more or less independent dukes ruled for some 400 years in these two duchies, German usually was the language of government, it was spoken in schools and churches, yet Danish was spoken among the majority of peasantry in Schleswig. When arriving to the 19th century the Danish status in Schleswig was vulnerable and continuously weakening - through its strong economic growth also the ethnic German area expanded, the Low-Saxon German immigrants constantly arrived from the south and and the former Danish-speaking families often found it more easy to change their spoken language.

In 1848 Denmark announced to the people of Schleswig the Danish liberal constitution, in which the duchy would still have its autonomous status, but would be integrated into Denmark. Due to this announcement the German majority in Schleswig-Holstein started an open uprising to support an independence from Denmark and search for a close association with the German Confederation. The Prussian Army drove the Danish troops from Schleswig and Holstein, the First Schleswig War had started.

Celebrating the victory - Danish troops return from the war in 1851, Copenhagen.

The First Schleswig War lasted from 1848 to 1851. Who should control Schleswig-Holstein - the war involved foreign troops for instance from Norway, Prussia and Sweden. Under international pressure the war ended signing the London Protocol for a Danish victory over the rebels and the Prussian Army had to withdraw.

The defeat in the war of 1848-1851 meant a failure to form an sovereign and independent state of Schleswig-Holstein, however the unity movement was carried on throughout the 1850's and the early 1860's. As well Denmark tried to integrate Schleswig into the Danish kingdom. The London Protocol had stipulated that the both duchies should be treated the same regarding their relations to the Kingdom of Denmark. The revisions of the Danish constitution of 1848 in the late 1850's and early 1860's led to Holstein's refusal in ratifying. This led to crisis in the parliament in Copenhagen. Eventually it was announced that the constitution and the integration should only apply on Schleswig - not Holstein. This was against the London Protocol and gave Prussia and the German Confederation a casus belli against Denmark.

Prussian victory - the Battle of Als.

The Second Schleswig War of 1864 was again fought of the control of Schleswig-Holstein and Lauenberg. Denmark and the Norwegian-Swedish volunteers fought against the German Confederation, Prussia and the Austrian Empire. The Danish violation of the London Protocol started the war. The war ended in October 1864 with the Treaty of Vienna, Denmark ceded the Duchies of Schleswig, Holstein and Saxe-Lauenberg for Prussia and Austria.

Prussia and Austria took the respective administration of Schleswig and Holstein - about 200 000 of Danes became under the German rule. Following the loss, Christian IX - behind the Danish government backs - offered the whole Denmark could join the German Confederation. However, Bismarck rejected this proposal fearing that the strife between the Danes and Germans could then stay unresolved. The once-existed Duchy of Holstein is today the northernmost state of Germany. In the aftermath of the WWI and during the Versailles Conference Denmark asked to include Schleswig plebiscites about staying a part of Germany or joining Denmark. The request was granted - the southern part of Schleswig voted to remain as a part of Germany, the northern part voted to join Denmark.

 

[Eusebio]

But how did it affect Finland?

 

[Pyoro]

Following the loss, Christian IX - behind the Danish government backs - offered the whole Denmark could join the German Confederation.

Never heard about this. Quite a crazy idea. I like it. "If you can't beat them, join them." Certainly would not have lead to any sort of unhappiness anywhere ^^

 

[Henry IX]

Ah, 19th-century nationalism. Nothing bad ever came from it...

 

[Drakken]

As Lord Palmerston famously said : "The Schleswig-Holstein question is so complicated, only three men in Europe have ever understood it. One was Prince Albert, who is dead. The second was a German professor who became mad. I am the third and I have forgotten all about it."

 

[Gordy]

What's this? Some kind of lecture. I have heard of this conflict, I don't need to read it all again. Could you try to include some of talking point in your threads? There isn't much to discuss here.

 

[Jopa79]

What's this? Some kind of lecture. I have heard of this conflict, I don't need to read it all again. Could you try to include some of talking point in your threads? There isn't much to discuss here.

Eyes are useless when the mind is blind.

 

[Gordy]

Eyes are useless when the mind is blind.

Speak for yourself.

 

[Jopa79]

Speak for yourself.

If you've heard about this conflict - like you earlier said - it doesn't mean everyone else has or nobody likes to read about it because you've done the reading already earlier.

This thread is not a lecture - it's a history article, it's written purely for those whom have an interest in history or in more detailed information.

Pardon me, but as far as I know, there is no rule or requirement for the author to only create threads included with points of discussion, the author is not responsible if there's no discussion in the thread which he/she created neither the author cannot be blamed if someone doesn't find created threads interesting. A thread might be a pleasant while giving subjects for thinking.

However, there is one certain important standpoint around the Schleswig-Holstein Question. It's an absolute example of nationalism and imperialism - how self-centeredness, egoism, self-will and foolishness of diplomats and politicians ruined nations and the price was paid by the fewers, the others. There was also a prospect of an united, sovereign and independent state of Schleswig-Holstein, but the minors' idea was shipwrecked due to the two wars of two major nations competing about something not rightfully in their belongings.

 

[Gordy]

If you've heard about this conflict - like you earlier said - it doesn't mean everyone else has or nobody likes to read about it because you've done the reading already earlier.

This thread is not a lecture - it's a history article, it's written purely for those whom have an interest in history or in more detailed information.

The initial post was just an info dump. I'm not sure who is going to click on this thread who hasn't already heard of the issue. It's not that obscure.

I read it and then went "yeah okay, what response are you hoping for?". Yes, what you posted seems to be about right from what I remember. But what was the point of the thread?

Pardon me, but as far as I know, there is no rule or requirement for the author to only create threads included with points of discussion, the author is not responsible if there's no discussion in the thread which he/she created neither the author cannot be blamed if someone doesn't find created threads interesting. A thread might be a pleasant while giving subjects for thinking.

Requirement no.

But it's a forum for discussion of topics rather than a store of a history articles. I'm not sure what there is to discuss here. It's not going to get locked I wouldn't have thought but there isn't anything here to keep the thread going. Unless someone has a really strong opinion on the subject (which is rather unlikely as it's a dead issue) "Yeah okay" is probably where it will end.

However, there is one certain important standpoint around the Schleswig-Holstein Question. It's an absolute example of nationalism and imperialism - how self-centeredness, egoism, self-will and foolishness of diplomats and politicians ruined nations and the price was paid by the fewers, the others. There was also a prospect of an united, sovereign and independent state of Schleswig-Holstein, but the minors' idea was shipwrecked due to the two wars of two major nations competing about something not rightfully in their belongings.

This is better though. It gives some opportunity for discussion.

Was an independent Schleswig-Holstein ever likely to happen? It's news to me that there was ever any appetite for it.

 

[demanvanwezel]

bismarck also rejected the danish joining the NGF because he was afraid that the danish colonial possesions would illicit english and american resistance to unification

also fun fact: I have a somewhat rough state AH going on where sweden was offered denmark instead of prussia (due to sweden aiding in the 2nd slesvich war due to perceived austrian weakness) and they accepted and thus forming the united kingdom of scandinavia after a while

 

[Jopa79]

Was an independent Schleswig-Holstein ever likely to happen? It's news to me that there was ever any appetite for it.

On December 12th 1863 the New York Times released an article where for instance it was stated the following:

"...the Duchies of Schleswig and Holstein are independent sovereign States in a "personal union" with Denmark, as Hungary was with Austria, but under their own Constitution, and separate from Denmark...With the recent death of King FREDERICK, the last male of the royal house of Oldenburg had passed away, and the Duchies would now, according to their ancient laws and their own desires, become separated from their "personal union" with Denmark, as Hanover, in 1837, was separated from Great Britain."

The New York Times article and the reference to the death of the last male of the royal house of Oldenburg suggests the fact that the two duchies were inherited according the Salic law - among the descendants of a past heiress. However, Fredrik VII of Denmark reached middle age without producing an heir and died in November 1863. Now, the legitimate heir and claimant of Schleswig-Holstein was the prince of the House of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Augustenburg and by his force the divisions of Schleswig-Holstein was determined solely by the law or by the wishes of the people.

Due to the pro-independence movements, the national spirits and the uprising in Schleswig-Holstein it was sure to not to have the consensus to keep the two duchies under the Danish Crown - neither forcing them to adapt the Danish constitution and integrate them to the Kingdom of Denmark, and when Denmark attempted to do so, the duchies searched for close cooperation with the German Confederation to support the effort and tendency to claim the sovereignty. Like Hanover, while its personal union ended with Great Britain in 1837, also Schleswig-Holstein and the prince of Augustenburg could have formed an independent kingdom, but probably it wouldn't had lasted for long while feeling pressure from the major neighbors from the north and from the south.

Ancient laws and their own desires - Treaty of Ribe of 1460 justified the eternal unification of Schleswig and Holstein, the two duchies should be "Forever Undivided". It was proclaimed that the King of Denmark should also be the Duke of Schleswig and the Count of Holstein, however, should the king make any break of this proclaim, the nobility was righteous to revolt. The treaty guaranteed certain privileges for Schleswig-Holstein, but during the 19th century and the nationalist awakening in both - the German Confederation and Denmark, the treaty was mostly used to support their view of the proclaim. The German nationalists claimed that the County of Holstein - once in the Holy Roman Empire - and the Danish Duchy of Schleswig as 'Up Ewig Ungedeelt' should be-in when creating the new German Empire. On the other hand, the Danes, citing the exact same section of an undivided Schelswig-Holstein refused to abandon the lands of the Danish Crown.

It's probably the geographic location which eventually prevented the sovereign independence of Schleswig-Holstein. The same time, culture, history and people's habits were unifying, but also separating. The Danish status in Schleswig and Holstein was weakening, it was displaced by the German economic growth and the German immigrants. Denmark tried to retain its claims and possessions by forcing, but only exacerbating the conflict. But there was also other imperialistic aspirations blocking the Schleswig-Holstein sovereignty. Great Britain showed it's support and sympathy towards Denmark - not wanting to see the German Empire to rise as a naval power. Meanwhile the Russians had indicated their interest - they were very willing and eager to obtain the control of Schleswig-Holstein as the ports of the duchies would be the Russian access and a shortcut for the Atlantic.

 

[bz249]

The map you included contains the Kiel Canal... which AFAIK was finished much later.
However... were there any plans for it? Were there alternative routes outside SH?

 

[Jopa79]

The map you included contains the Kiel Canal... which AFAIK was finished much later.
However... were there any plans for it? Were there alternative routes outside SH?

Eider Canal - also called the Schleswig-Holstein Canal. It was constructed between 1777 and 1784. In 1880 Eider Canal was replaced by Kiel Canal. Both canals share same water routes in certain sections. Eider Canal connected the Baltic Sea to the North Sea. Eider Canal is preserved as important elements of the historical and cultural landscape.

After Sweden was defeated in the Great Northern War the Prince of Sweden and the Duke of Schleswig-Holstein-Gottorp, Charles Frederick fled to the court of Peter the Great of Russia and was later married to Peter's daughter, Grand Duchess Anna. From this marriage was born Charles Peter Ulrich, who succeeded Holstein-Gottorp and later became the Emperor of the Russian Empire.

The Treaty of Tsarskoye Selo was a territorial and dynastic treaty between the Russian Empire and the Kingdom of Denmark. The Danish crown regained the control of Schleswig-Holstein in return for Russian control of the county of Oldenburg. The Treaty of Tsarskoye Selo enabled the Danish construction of Eider Canal in the lands of regained Schleswig-Holstein.

 

[Gordy]

bismarck also rejected the danish joining the NGF because he was afraid that the danish colonial possesions would illicit english and american resistance to unification

Seriously? Danish colonies? What are we talking about here? Greenland / Iceland / Faroes and some odd trading fort here and there in Africa / Caribbean?

 

[demanvanwezel]

Seriously? Danish colonies? What are we talking about here? Greenland / Iceland / Faroes and some odd trading fort here and there in Africa / Caribbean?

it was specificly the danish virgin islands (sold to the US in 1917) which could serve as a trigger to the US (who has yet another european great power in his frontyard despite the monroe-doctrine) also iceland and the faroes can be used as navel bases to harass brittain

 

[Culise]

Seriously? Danish colonies? What are we talking about here? Greenland / Iceland / Faroes and some odd trading fort here and there in Africa / Caribbean?

Yes, plus the Danish Virgin Islands which were sold to the US in 1917. It seems that US concerns about Germany seizing them given their position in the Leeward Islands permitting their use for operations against the Panama Canal was a significant factor in the US decision to accept the Danish asking price. That said, the Panama Canal rather obviously did not exist in 1864, though there was a Panama Railroad running alongside the modern canal route, and I'm not sure US resistance to German unification would be a major factor for a European war fought in the middle of the US Civil War. If Bismark were worried about an extension of territorial influence resulting in hostility from other powers, I'd think it more likely that he would have thought the British or Russians would choke on the possibility of de facto Prussian or Austrian control of the routes in and out of the Baltic Sea.

EDIT: Ah, noted above.

 

[Gordy]

Thanks gents. Now that you put it that way, it makes more sense.

 

[bz249]

Eider Canal - also called the Schleswig-Holstein Canal. It was constructed between 1777 and 1784. In 1880 Eider Canal was replaced by Kiel Canal. Both canals share same water routes in certain sections. Eider Canal connected the Baltic Sea to the North Sea. Eider Canal is preserved as important elements of the historical and cultural landscape.

After Sweden was defeated in the Great Northern War the Prince of Sweden and the Duke of Schleswig-Holstein-Gottorp, Charles Frederick fled to the court of Peter the Great of Russia and was later married to Peter's daughter, Grand Duchess Anna. From this marriage was born Charles Peter Ulrich, who succeeded Holstein-Gottorp and later became the Emperor of the Russian Empire.

The Treaty of Tsarskoye Selo was a territorial and dynastic treaty between the Russian Empire and the Kingdom of Denmark. The Danish crown regained the control of Schleswig-Holstein in return for Russian control of the county of Oldenburg. The Treaty of Tsarskoye Selo enabled the Danish construction of Eider Canal in the lands of regained Schleswig-Holstein.

Apparently the Eider Canal was not an important waterway as it was limited to "boats" (140t maximum).
However I found that the need for a waterway between the North Sea and the Baltics under full German control was already considered/discussed by the time of Schleswig-Holsten War.

That makes an independent SH or SH in partial Danish control pretty much unlikely.