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CK3 Dev Diary #2- The Medieval Map

Hello everyone!

I would like to take a moment to talk about the map of Crusader Kings 3, what the vision for the map is, and how it is different from Crusader Kings 2.

Let’s start with our ambitions. CK2 had several parts of the map that was outdated, and to be frank, a bit underdeveloped. When we started to update the map for CK3, we knew that we wanted to take a pass at everything, do additional research, and update the different areas accordingly. This goes for the entire De Jure title hierarchy, so there are several new kingdoms and duchies present. In terms of scope, the map will roughly match that of CK2. I know I will disappoint those of you hoping for China, but, sadly, it will not be on the map. We will however, have a few new additions: the entirety of Tibet will be present, unlike CK2 where the most eastern parts were excluded, and sub-Saharan Africa is also extended, where we’ve gone all the way to the Nigerian coast.

When setting the map visuals, province layout, rivers, and more, the focus has always been on clarity. The map should be easy to read and get information from. For example, you should be able to read most of the terrain simply by looking at the map, without the need to click on the province, or tooltip it, in order to find that out, while rivers should be easy to see and let you know if you will cross one when moving armies around.

We represent the map on three different zoom levels. When zoomed far out, the map will turn into an actual paper map, allowing for an easy overview and stylish screenshots. Zoom in a bit and you will have the 3D map, with the typical political overlay, great for interacting with your vassals and other realms. Zoom in even further and you’ll see the names of all the counties along with the terrain, as we strip away the realm colors. Perfect for moving armies around and knowing where to pick your battles, without the need to switch around to different map modes (but don’t worry, we still have several map modes for easily accessing different information).

One of the most notable changes is how we handle Baronies. In CK2, Counties were the smallest entity we had on the map, a province if you will, with several Baronies represented through the interface of the County view. In CK3, we took the next logical step and made Baronies into their own provinces. We have been able to create a map with much more granularity and better accuracy. Most Counties will normally consist of two to five Baronies, with some exceptions. The amount of provinces will be noticeable when waging war, as it offers a larger degree of movement for you armies (more on that in the future).

dd_02_baronies.png


To give you a good idea of the increased province density, here is a comparison of the British Islands in CK2 and CK3, being on the left and right side, respectively:

dd_02_ck2_ck3_comparison.png


Before you all go nuts about playable baronies: No. You cannot play as a Baron. The lowest playable rank will still be that of a Count. The emphasis will therefore be on the Counties rather than the individual Baronies. As such, Baronies exist with a few things in mind. For example, they can never leave a county. This means Counties stay the same over time, avoiding weird splits where a single barony goes independent or to another realm (reducing that hideous border-gore ever-so-slightly). The number of Baronies within a County is one factor that represents its wealth and how “good” it is. Another important factor is the terrain. A County with a lot of Desert will not be as beneficial as one with a lot of Farmlands for example.

Speaking of terrain, we have several different terrain types spread out across the map. Instead of having a single terrain spread out across large areas of the map, we differentiate between similar terrain types by separating them, such as Forest and Taiga, or Plains and Drylands. Not only does it make the map look and feel distinct in different parts of the world, they also have a different impact on gameplay.

dd_02_england.png


dd_02_maghreb.png


Then we have Impassable Terrain. These are far more frequent, and in many cases much larger, than you will be used to from CK2. We’ve essentially used these for any area that we consider uninhabited enough to warrant it not being part of an existing County. Some areas have plenty of smaller impassable provinces, such as the mountains surrounding Bohemia, while others have fewer and far larger pieces of inhospitable land, such as the deserts of Arabia and Syria. Impassable Terrain cannot be traversed by armies, often creating bottlenecks that you’ll have to pass through or perhaps even choose to go around, should it be heavily fortified.

dd_02_impassable.png


That’s it for now. I hope you enjoyed this early sneak peak of the map and I'll be sure to show more to you in the future!
 
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Is culture and religion at the barony level or still at the county level?
It is at the county level from what I have been able to tell.

If you look at the image bellow, you can see it look like the top half is county information (like Imperator: Rome province information) while the bottom half is about the barony.
index.php
 
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So you add all of these new and detailed provinces, and then spect us not being able to play with them?. Really disappointed by that decision. I hope is at least not hardcoded so modders can fix this stupid decision
Well, baronies are just too small to be playable, you would need mods to gain any kind of land, first of all your military power would be minimal, your chances of marrying into any count level family would be hard, let alone marrying into a duke or higher tier family, there is no plus to playing as a baron.
 
Well, baronies are just too small to be playable, you would need mods to gain any kind of land, first of all your military power would be minimal, your chances of marrying into any count level family would be hard, let alone marrying into a duke or higher tier family, there is no plus to playing as a baron.
I disagree with "there is no plus to playing as a baron".
Baron level is like playing on legendary at the beginning, and it might be a very slow start, but this is truly were your diplomacy, intriguing skill shine.
Or you could pray to god, stay loyal, serve in the army and survive until awarded a county.. Or pray even harder and get a family member to become a bishop and accumelate power within the church, and among very pious lords and ladies.

Anyways, diplomacy, intrigue, it could be a game where you gather barons to overthrow you count, if thats not viable you have to find a secret, and a hook etc to get up the ladder.
Allowing barons to be payable in the future creates a longer feudal ladder to climb, I see no problem in having the option to try it.
 
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I disagree with "there is no plus to playing as a baron".
Baron level is like playing on legendary at the beginning, and it might be a very slow start, but this is truly were your diplomacy, intriguing skill shine.
Or you could pray to god, stay loyal, serve in the army and survive until awarded a county.. Or pray even harder and get a family member to become a bishop and accumelate power within the church, and among very pious lords and ladies.

Anyways, diplomacy, intrigue, it could be a game where you gather barons to overthrow you count, if thats not viable you have to find a secret, and a hook etc to get up the ladder.
Allowing barons to be payable in the future creates a longer feudal ladder to climb, I see no problem in having the option to try it.

I respectfully disagree. I think playing as a Count, depending on where, can be considered like playing on legendary in the beginning as it is. So many people stay as Counts in their play-through because it's difficult to move up in rank in some of these areas. If you're lucky, maybe you'll get to Duke in a few generations, but the point is still the same.

I think the main reason Barons will be unplayable is due to resource limitations. Having to include courts and family lineage for every single Baron in the game just astronomically makes the game's resources larger. It's just simply not efficient and isn't much "bang for your buck" so to speak.

Plus, as there isn't THAT much you can do as a Count, a Baron would be even worse when it came to action. As a Baron, you would have to rebel against your own Count because you couldn't fabricate claims against other Barons. It's extremely limited and doesn't make much sense. But I only say this as a small fact because it's up to the player if they want to go through that torture. Nevertheless, it's more due to resource limitations I believe than anything else.
 
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I respectfully disagree. I think playing as a Count, depending on where, can be considered like playing on legendary in the beginning as it is. So many people stay as Counts in their play-through because it's difficult to move up in rank in some of these areas. If you're lucky, maybe you'll get to Duke in a few generations, but the point is still the same.

I think the main reason Barons will be unplayable is due to resource limitations. Having to include courts and family lineage for every single Baron in the game just astronomically makes the game's resources larger. It's just simply not efficient and isn't much "bang for your buck" so to speak.

Plus, as there isn't THAT much you can do as a Count, a Baron would be even worse when it came to action. As a Baron, you would have to rebel against your own Count because you couldn't fabricate claims against other Barons. It's extremely limited and doesn't make much sense. But I only say this as a small fact because it's up to the player if they want to go through that torture. Nevertheless, it's more due to resource limitations I believe than anything else.
Yeah I can agree with that, it is a resource limitation. It's npthing I would play, but people are so different. Some like to play GTA and wreck a whole city single handily, other like to die over and over again fighting one enemy in Dark Souls.. Some people like pain, some like to dominate.. xD
 
I've seen on a CK3 screenshot (
1:49) 3 misspelt Hungarian provinces.
Poszony - correct: Pozsony; Trenscen - correct Trencsen; Hewes - correct Heves.
 
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I've seen on a CK3 screenshot (
1:49) 3 misspelt Hungarian provinces.
Poszony - correct: Pozsony; Trenscen - correct Trencsen; Hewes - correct Heves.
I have made a longer post about that, mentioning even more misspellings:

I have also started a thread about the Gutkeled dynasty of the Pechenegs, and why is it comically inaccurate:
 
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Release is not until September, so I'm guessing that some further passes of spelling etc. are to come, but pointing it out is helpful. Remember, too, that medieval spellings frequently differed from more modern ones.
 
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Release is not until September, so I'm guessing that some further passes of spelling etc. are to come, but pointing it out is helpful. Remember, too, that medieval spellings frequently differed from more modern ones.
There is a huge difference between archaic spelling and incoherent, totally wrong spelling. And also at most places, if not all, CK uses modern orthography for toponyms, thus spelling disasters, so technically using "medieval" spellings (I'll have to state here that none of the spellings mentioned by Frigabus and I could be regarded as archaic variants, they are just typos) along with modern ones makes the toponyms of the map really inconsistent
 
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As I said, pointing out spelling errors (typos or whatever they might be) is helpful. Getting pissy about either it or my attempt at explanation/mollification is, on the other hand, not.
 
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As I said, pointing out spelling errors (typos or whatever they might be) is helpful. Getting pissy about either it or my attempt at explanation/mollification is, on the other hand, not.
I didn't mean to sound pissy, so sorry if that was your impression
 
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I didn't mean to sound pissy, so sorry if that was your impression
No worries; getting mood and nuance across in text communication is difficult. I'll assume it didn't sound pissy in your head, and maybe it shouldn't have done in mine ;)
 
Magna Hungaria (the Latin words mean literally Ancient Hungary, not Great Hungary) is the supposed homeland of the Hungarians. In 1235, Julian, a Dominican friar, left Hungary in search of Magna Hungaria. He found Hungarians living two days travel of Bolgar, the capital of the Volga Bolghars. They were able to communicate in Hungarian. They still followed the ancestors’ religion. In 1238 they were swept away by the Mongol invasion almost without trace.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friar_Julian https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magna_Hungaria

Suggestion: a county south of Bolghar could be Pagan Hungarian with a not independent chieftain.
 
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The Duchy of Jedisan should be called ’Etelköz’ when under Hungarian rule which is the case in 867. The neighbouring duchy of Levedia (Levédia) also has a Hungarian name. It would be a great pleasure for every Hungarian. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_prehistory#Etelk.C3.B6z_.28c._850.C2.A0.E2.80.93_c._895.29

Levedia (and Etelköz) are unidentifieable, and should not be in game at all. The DAI calls Levedia a 'tópos', place. Which certainly doesn't merit it being a Duchy of all things. Levedia might as well have been a village for all we know. The later reference to it from the GH doesn't help its case at all either, as that work has very little truth in it. There is no reason to have either in game as Duchies.
 
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Levedia (and Etelköz) are unidentifieable, and should not be in game at all. The DAI calls Levedia a 'tópos', place. Which certainly doesn't merit it being a Duchy of all things. Levedia might as well have been a village for all we know. The later reference to it from the GH doesn't help its case at all either, as that work has very little truth in it. There is no reason to have either in game as Duchies.
You are right again they cannot be exactly identified. BUT: there's no other contemporary name for these steppe territories south of the Slavic tribes. Any Slavic or Rumanian name for most of the counties and duchies between the Carpathians and the Don is absolutely historical. But a name must be given and if the Hungarians lived in 837 between the Dnieper and the Dniester as we see on the CK3 map than they might call it Etelköz.
 
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Magna Hungaria (the Latin words mean literally Ancient Hungary, not Great Hungary)
This just isn't true. Magnus -a -um unambiguously means 'great'. Vetus, priscus -a -um, antiquus -a -um, can all mean 'old', 'ancient'.

nd
 
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