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EricMN93

Captain
5 Badges
Apr 25, 2019
410
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  • Crusader Kings II
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Crusader Kings III
Imperator Rome is getting better and better and the news looks very good but I have the feeling that small nations are left behind.


Historically, small nations made "confederations and" federations "that allowed them to hold out for a while against great powers. I think that that section could be improved much more.

Defensive leagues

We currently have the defensive leagues but there are traps and little tricks to eliminate a defensive league.

Forming a defensive league should unlock a new mechanic in the government or military tab called council.

Advice:

This mechanism will only be available for city states and local powers of the same cultural group, in it laws can be approved and each member can vote in favor, against or abstention.

Council Laws (Defensive League)

1-Add member
IF someone wants to join the league all members must vote, it will depend on their relationships with the new member to vote in one way or another.

2-Expel member:

Any member can elect another to be expelled, the rest of the council will vote depending on their opinion with the affected member.

3-Internal peace:

Members will choose whether wars can be declared internally or not.

4-Advance the relationship.

Members will vote whether to advance in a better union beyond a defensive league.

If the majority of members vote yes and someone votes no, this member may choose to leave the league or accept the result.


* To activate the council there must be a defensive league with a minimum of three members.

* Members may make alliances, wars and external treaties independently.

* If someone attacks a member of the league, everyone will come to the aid, as it happens now.

* IF there are only 2 members alive the league will automatically disband

Tips section idea example:

liga defensiva.png


Simaquia


The simmachy (συμμαχια - "fight together", in the Greek language-) is an institution of Ancient Greece that, in the original sense of the term, functions as a «collaboration for combat».
It is a military alliance concluded between two or more polis (independent city-states) with the aim of going to war against a common enemy or providing mutual aid in the event of an attack against one of the allies.

The Simaquia is a natural evolution of a defensive league, in it the council (synedrion) made the decisions that affected the entire alliance and the figure of the "hegemon" could also be established.

In the game the defensive league council would change to synedrion (maybe it could have other names, depending on the culture) and in it more important decisions would be made with unique mechanics.

Apart from the previous laws there would be these:

1-Declare a common enemy.

A common enemy will be chosen and all members will be able to vote for, against or abstain. If the majority of the alliance votes in favor, all members will be forced to go to war (both offensively and defensively) against that common enemy.

2-Internal trade

IF this law goes ahead, the members of the alliance must necessarily trade internally and when nobody needs anything, continue trading externally.

3-Common external ally

If it comes out in favor, the Simaquia will have a common external ally. The ally must help any member of the alliance and vice versa.

4-Declare hegemon / withdraw the hegemon (Depending on the culture it could be called different)

A member of the alliance will be chosen to become the military leader.

If this law is approved, the hegemon will control all the armies / levies of the alliance in times of war. Each civilization will continue to pay for its armies

Having losses, disbanding units, spending a long time at war will reduce relationships with affected members.

Winning wars and having few casualties will heighten the opinion of the allies.

Being hegemon will allow you to unlock unique diplomatic relationships with alliance members.

Hegemon:

The hegemon is the "leader" of the simachy, although it continues to depend on the support of the other members.

Support: All members of the Simaquia will have a level of support with the hegemon. Anger -100 to +100. Giving benefits to allies will increase their support, hurting allies will reduce their support.

Hegemon interactions:

1-Give territory.
A territory will be delivered. Support will increase +25
2-Give gold.
The hegemon will give an amount of gold x to the member.
Variable positive support (depending on the amount of money)
3-Duty please:
The hegemon will owe the member a favor.
4-Move pops
The hegemon will give x amount of slaves to a member (must be adjacent territories)
+10 support

In exchange of...

Any hegemonic interaction will have a hand on the side. This option means that this action will be taken in exchange for the next decision being supported by the synedrion.

The member may accept or refuse, like any other diplomatic interaction.

* Taking the action "in exchange for" ... will replace the bonus of the diplomatic action with an equivalent penalty.

Example:

Give territory in exchange for ... -25 support.

What is the support for?

It is used to centralize or decentralize the government in the synedrion tab.

In case of having low support and having a bad opinion of the hegemon, they can propose to choose another hegemon, rebel or leave the alliance.

Centralization

They are laws that can only be proposed by the hegemon and that the rest of the members must vote. Simply by having a majority, the law can be applied, but members who vote against it could lose support and make decisions.

Unlike other laws, centralization does not depend on YES or NO, there are three options and members can choose one or the other, something similar to the economic tab to understand us.

Control of the economy.
1-Individual.
Each civilization will control its economy.
2-Collective.
Each member will give 50% of their monthly money to the alliance and it will be distributed by the hegemon.

In practice, it represents that the hegemon gets more money but must distribute it better to prevent members from losing support.

3-Controlled.

The entire economy will be controlled by the hegemon.

Diplomacy:
1-Individual.
Each member controls their diplomacy.
2-Advisory.
Each diplomatic decision of a member will be voted on by the syndreion.
3-Restrictive.
Only the hegemon can decide what to do and what not to do.

Control

1-Individual:
Each civilization is independent and can leave the alliance at any time.
2-Vassals.
All members accept the authority of the hegemon by becoming vassals.
3-Union. All members will unite in a new greater civilization. The type of government of the hegemon will be maintained and a new label will be created depending on the culture and characteristics of the hegemon.

Death of the hegemon

The view of the council and the simaquia will be seen by civilizations, however when their ruler dies, relations will be restarted (only in case of being a monarchy or a tribe).

When the ruler of the hegemon country dies or is removed from office, the position will be vacant.

A new one can be chosen. In the absence of the hegemon, everything will be voted on in the council as well as in the defensive union.


These ideas can be used both for the Greek world and to represent barbarian confederations, an alternative history style that could have happened with vercingentorix.

These are just some very superficial ideas to make small states more attractive, feel free to contribute your ideas.

simaquia.png
 
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I like very much the idea, I think tribes should go this way for sure.

When you are ready, please post this on the Senatus Populusque.
 
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I was hallucinating, I say to see if all this time my suggestions have been in vain hahaha

From the nick I see that we are from the same territory, greetings from Olot (Girona););)
 
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Centralization

They are laws that can only be proposed by the hegemon and that the rest of the members must vote. Simply by having a majority, the law can be applied, but members who vote against it could lose support and make decisions.

Unlike other laws, centralization does not depend on YES or NO, there are three options and members can choose one or the other, something similar to the economic tab to understand us.

Control of the economy.
1-Individual.
Each civilization will control its economy.
2-Collective.
Each member will give 50% of their monthly money to the alliance and it will be distributed by the hegemon.

In practice, it represents that the hegemon gets more money but must distribute it better to prevent members from losing support.

3-Controlled.

The entire economy will be controlled by the hegemon.

Diplomacy:
1-Individual.
Each member controls their diplomacy.
2-Advisory.
Each diplomatic decision of a member will be voted on by the syndreion.
3-Restrictive.
Only the hegemon can decide what to do and what not to do.

Control

1-Individual:
Each civilization is independent and can leave the alliance at any time.
2-Vassals.
All members accept the authority of the hegemon by becoming vassals.
3-Union. All members will unite in a new greater civilization. The type of government of the hegemon will be maintained and a new label will be created depending on the culture and characteristics of the hegemon.

Death of the hegemon

The view of the council and the simaquia will be seen by civilizations, however when their ruler dies, relations will be restarted (only in case of being a monarchy or a tribe).

When the ruler of the hegemon country dies or is removed from office, the position will be vacant.

A new one can be chosen. In the absence of the hegemon, everything will be voted on in the council as well as in the defensive union.

This could be the alternative evolution for tribes (and my preferred one). Instead of going Republic or Monarchy, they could choose to go for this tribal federation at the same level than Empires for Republics or Monarchies.

Tribe -->Monarchy/Republic --> Empire
|__> Loose Federation ---> Strong Federation
 
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Currently we see how the tribes and small states are simply to be eaten, this is a mistake, there are many players who want to play high, I think these ideas could help improve that experience.

Historically they make sense.

Examples:

The League of Delos in Greece or Vercingertorix in Gaul.

Besides, I think that playing as a federation would help to feel the game different, more diplomatic style.
 
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If the hegemon / champion gets support to declare the law of union within the control section, an event will be activated.

We will have two options:

1-All tribes will unite in a new type 2 or 3 tag and the Simaquia tab will disappear.

All armies, income, expenses and internal problems will be inherited by the hegemon. The important families will continue to be those that existed in the hegemon's civilization, since it represents that the rest of the tribes accept their rule. The rest of the families of other clans will become minor characters ...

There will surely be quite a few disloyal characters (simulating the complexity of uniting different tribes)

* IF the player is not the hegemon / champion, his game will end with the unification, so as not to lose the game his only option will be to leave the alliance, although the rest of the tribes may continue with the fusion.

2- The merger will be denied and the Simaquia will continue to apply the vassal law of the control section.

Here it would be interesting to have more options and elements to make the style of play with vassals more attractive, I hope that in patch 2.0 they will introduce the changes that they postponed from patch 1.5

This style of play would reinforce the growth in high and diplomatic to make that small states can survive and expand in front of great powers in the form of simaquia / special alliance.

I mentioned it before but if one of the members of the alliance expands too much they will be automatically expelled.

These ideas are intended to be an interesting opportunity to play with small nations.


Merge event example

Unificación.png
 
Imperator Rome is getting better and better and the news looks very good but I have the feeling that small nations are left behind.


Historically, small nations made "confederations and" federations "that allowed them to hold out for a while against great powers. I think that that section could be improved much more.

Defensive leagues

We currently have the defensive leagues but there are traps and little tricks to eliminate a defensive league.

Forming a defensive league should unlock a new mechanic in the government or military tab called council.

Advice:

This mechanism will only be available for city states and local powers of the same cultural group, in it laws can be approved and each member can vote in favor, against or abstention.

Council Laws (Defensive League)

1-Add member
IF someone wants to join the league all members must vote, it will depend on their relationships with the new member to vote in one way or another.

2-Expel member:

Any member can elect another to be expelled, the rest of the council will vote depending on their opinion with the affected member.

3-Internal peace:

Members will choose whether wars can be declared internally or not.

4-Advance the relationship.

Members will vote whether to advance in a better union beyond a defensive league.

If the majority of members vote yes and someone votes no, this member may choose to leave the league or accept the result.


* To activate the council there must be a defensive league with a minimum of three members.

* Members may make alliances, wars and external treaties independently.

* If someone attacks a member of the league, everyone will come to the aid, as it happens now.

* IF there are only 2 members alive the league will automatically disband

Tips section idea example:

View attachment 653363

Simaquia


The simmachy (συμμαχια - "fight together", in the Greek language-) is an institution of Ancient Greece that, in the original sense of the term, functions as a «collaboration for combat».
It is a military alliance concluded between two or more polis (independent city-states) with the aim of going to war against a common enemy or providing mutual aid in the event of an attack against one of the allies.

The Simaquia is a natural evolution of a defensive league, in it the council (synedrion) made the decisions that affected the entire alliance and the figure of the "hegemon" could also be established.

In the game the defensive league council would change to synedrion (maybe it could have other names, depending on the culture) and in it more important decisions would be made with unique mechanics.

Apart from the previous laws there would be these:

1-Declare a common enemy.

A common enemy will be chosen and all members will be able to vote for, against or abstain. If the majority of the alliance votes in favor, all members will be forced to go to war (both offensively and defensively) against that common enemy.

2-Internal trade

IF this law goes ahead, the members of the alliance must necessarily trade internally and when nobody needs anything, continue trading externally.

3-Common external ally

If it comes out in favor, the Simaquia will have a common external ally. The ally must help any member of the alliance and vice versa.

4-Declare hegemon / withdraw the hegemon (Depending on the culture it could be called different)

A member of the alliance will be chosen to become the military leader.

If this law is approved, the hegemon will control all the armies / levies of the alliance in times of war. Each civilization will continue to pay for its armies

Having losses, disbanding units, spending a long time at war will reduce relationships with affected members.

Winning wars and having few casualties will heighten the opinion of the allies.

Being hegemon will allow you to unlock unique diplomatic relationships with alliance members.

Hegemon:

The hegemon is the "leader" of the simachy, although it continues to depend on the support of the other members.

Support: All members of the Simaquia will have a level of support with the hegemon. Anger -100 to +100. Giving benefits to allies will increase their support, hurting allies will reduce their support.

Hegemon interactions:

1-Give territory.
A territory will be delivered. Support will increase +25
2-Give gold.
The hegemon will give an amount of gold x to the member.
Variable positive support (depending on the amount of money)
3-Duty please:
The hegemon will owe the member a favor.
4-Move pops
The hegemon will give x amount of slaves to a member (must be adjacent territories)
+10 support

In exchange of...

Any hegemonic interaction will have a hand on the side. This option means that this action will be taken in exchange for the next decision being supported by the synedrion.

The member may accept or refuse, like any other diplomatic interaction.

* Taking the action "in exchange for" ... will replace the bonus of the diplomatic action with an equivalent penalty.

Example:

Give territory in exchange for ... -25 support.

What is the support for?

It is used to centralize or decentralize the government in the synedrion tab.

In case of having low support and having a bad opinion of the hegemon, they can propose to choose another hegemon, rebel or leave the alliance.

Centralization

They are laws that can only be proposed by the hegemon and that the rest of the members must vote. Simply by having a majority, the law can be applied, but members who vote against it could lose support and make decisions.

Unlike other laws, centralization does not depend on YES or NO, there are three options and members can choose one or the other, something similar to the economic tab to understand us.

Control of the economy.
1-Individual.
Each civilization will control its economy.
2-Collective.
Each member will give 50% of their monthly money to the alliance and it will be distributed by the hegemon.

In practice, it represents that the hegemon gets more money but must distribute it better to prevent members from losing support.

3-Controlled.

The entire economy will be controlled by the hegemon.

Diplomacy:
1-Individual.
Each member controls their diplomacy.
2-Advisory.
Each diplomatic decision of a member will be voted on by the syndreion.
3-Restrictive.
Only the hegemon can decide what to do and what not to do.

Control

1-Individual:
Each civilization is independent and can leave the alliance at any time.
2-Vassals.
All members accept the authority of the hegemon by becoming vassals.
3-Union. All members will unite in a new greater civilization. The type of government of the hegemon will be maintained and a new label will be created depending on the culture and characteristics of the hegemon.

Death of the hegemon

The view of the council and the simaquia will be seen by civilizations, however when their ruler dies, relations will be restarted (only in case of being a monarchy or a tribe).

When the ruler of the hegemon country dies or is removed from office, the position will be vacant.

A new one can be chosen. In the absence of the hegemon, everything will be voted on in the council as well as in the defensive union.


These ideas can be used both for the Greek world and to represent barbarian confederations, an alternative history style that could have happened with vercingentorix.

These are just some very superficial ideas to make small states more attractive, feel free to contribute your ideas.

View attachment 653364
IMO this should work something like sphere of influence in Vicky II. If it worked that way it's be hella cool and immersive.
 
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IMO this should work something like sphere of influence in Vicky II. If it worked that way it's be hella cool and immersive.

I have not played Victoria 2 but I understand that it is a very good simulator.

I think that there would be no problem if this system of alliances and symaquia was more simulated or in other different ways, the important thing is that small nations can survive and prosper realistically.
 
This is fantastic. An implementation on such a sophisticated level as described here would open up a whole new style of play effectively, and even just implementing some of the core ideas should make defensive leagues much more important.

---

Edit:

It strikes me that this system might also be used to better represent, and give an interesting flavor to, the Etruscans as well.
 
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A well thought out, and well presented, idea. We definitely need diplomatic leagues as an alternative playing style, as well as giving smaller states something to do.

But, to jump right into it, I don't think this will truly result in a different gaming experience. The internal management options are too limited, and I imagine forming such a league and gaining new members would amount to improving opinions until they like you enough? That would add little more than push button to get result, and in the end doesn't change the map painting through aggressive expansion aspect of the game (though the aggression now is pushing the 'improve opinion' button).

Elsewhere I proposed a system of cultural influence which would form the foundation of leagues: rather than investing in military might, one could invest in cultural and religious festivals, sporting events and infrastructure to attract 'great people' and establish cultural dominance over neigbouring states. Not to say that my suggestion is the bestest and most briliant thing ever, but I feel to make leagues and diplomacy truly interesting, there needs to be something more to strive for than just becoming the most powerful. I feel a system where one strives to become cultural hegemon might be something different and interesting.
 
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A well thought out, and well presented, idea. We definitely need diplomatic leagues as an alternative playing style, as well as giving smaller states something to do.

But, to jump right into it, I don't think this will truly result in a different gaming experience. The internal management options are too limited, and I imagine forming such a league and gaining new members would amount to improving opinions until they like you enough? That would add little more than push button to get result, and in the end doesn't change the map painting through aggressive expansion aspect of the game (though the aggression now is pushing the 'improve opinion' button).

Elsewhere I proposed a system of cultural influence which would form the foundation of leagues: rather than investing in military might, one could invest in cultural and religious festivals, sporting events and infrastructure to attract 'great people' and establish cultural dominance over neigbouring states. Not to say that my suggestion is the bestest and most briliant thing ever, but I feel to make leagues and diplomacy truly interesting, there needs to be something more to strive for than just becoming the most powerful. I feel a system where one strives to become cultural hegemon might be something different and interesting.

In the end this is not a competition, it is about creating ideas that help improve the game. That they take the best ideas related to improving leagues and small civilizations and that they establish a fun, immersive system with personality, in this way we all win. ;)
 
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