New innovation: Service grants citizenship

[Mr. Wiggles]

1) Roman specific
2) A tribute to stellaris
3) Expensive innovation, down the military tree
4) levies from un-integrated pops (of course not as much as from your primary culture)
5) Bonus to unintegrated pop output
6) Flat bonus to integration speed

Pros:
7) that's how it worked irl
8) adds flavour
9) small suggestion, easy to implement and 0 mental onanism
10) Might be OP

Cos:
11) Might be OP

 

[Nostalgium]

2) A tribute to stellaris

Tribute to Starship Troopers actually, which itself took the system from Rome.

That aside, allowing levies from unintegrated pops would make this the single most OP tech in the whole game, and the only reasonable starting point in military tech. Forget siege, forget discipline, forget literally everything that didn't lead to this innovation. Even with only the flat bonus to integration it'd be very powerful, since a flat bonus to assimilation/conversion is usually more powerful than percentages.

 

[IsaacCAT]

I want to have auxiliaries in game.

Less mercs and more levies from non integrated POPs. They will cost you money like mercs and they will cost you POPs if they were killed, the same as levies. The number of auxiliary armies will be limited by mercs armies limit. Auxiliaries will not increase military experience.

After service those POPs could be made Roman culture directly, if you have that invention/law.

If player wants to levy auxiliares to assimilate POPs, it will have to pay the initial fee plus a minimum of 6 months of the auxiliary standing. Meanwhile the POPs are not producing and are consuming money (like mercs). It is a very expensive way to assimilate POPs.

 

[Nostalgium]

If player wants to levy auxiliares to assimilate POPs, it will have to pay the initial fee plus a minimum of 6 months of the auxiliary standing. Meanwhile the POPs are not producing and are consuming money (like mercs). It is a very expensive way to assimilate POPs.

Six months seems a bit low, really. I don't think the path of citizenship through service in the Auxilla was limited to one campaign season. Maybe auxillaries should be raised like a standing army that remained on retainer for X years, and after those X years, would automatically disband and convert the pops to Roman if you were not currently at war?

 

[IsaacCAT]

Six months seems a bit low, really. I don't think the path of citizenship through service in the Auxilla was limited to one campaign season. Maybe auxillaries should be raised like a standing army that remained on retainer for X years, and after those X years, would automatically disband and convert the pops to Roman if you were not currently at war?

Go tell the soldiers yourself! they are not risking their lives only for the coin, you promised them citizenship!

Alright, make more than 1 year. If less than 1 year they do not assimilate.

(I am thinking on armies between 3K to 15K that represent 2-10 POPS max?)

 

[Mr. Wiggles]

Tribute to Starship Troopers actually, which itself took the system from Rome.

That aside, allowing levies from unintegrated pops would make this the single most OP tech in the whole game, and the only reasonable starting point in military tech. Forget siege, forget discipline, forget literally everything that didn't lead to this innovation. Even with only the flat bonus to integration it'd be very powerful, since a flat bonus to assimilation/conversion is usually more powerful than percentages.

You are acting like innovations that give bonuses to assimilation do not exist...
Make it a percentage, I am not against the idea, it is a matter of balancing things.
Second: you can just click "integrate culture" and get all the levies, seems even worse.
I doubt getting 4k levies here and there would hurt game balance.

Ps. I know who Heinlein is, that's why I chose the reference

 

[Mr. Wiggles]

Go tell the soldiers yourself! they are not risking their lives only for the coin, you promised them citizenship!

Alright, make more than 1 year. If less than 1 year they do not assimilate.

(I am thinking on armies between 3K to 15K that represent 2-10 POPS max?)

Free food, the lovely climate of the british isles, an actual pay and the chance to die for the glory of Rome...who is the madman who would turn this offer down?

 

[IsaacCAT]

Free food, the lovely climate of the british isles, an actual pay and the chance to die for the glory of Rome...who is the madman who would turn this offer down?

Since Roman times the state blackmail has abused poverty against its citizens, no need to blame it to capitalism only.

 

[Mr. Wiggles]

Six months seems a bit low, really. I don't think the path of citizenship through service in the Auxilla was limited to one campaign season. Maybe auxillaries should be raised like a standing army that remained on retainer for X years, and after those X years, would automatically disband and convert the pops to Roman if you were not currently at war?

I think it was something like 20 years, they branded you with fire...officially to help building a sense of cameraderie...in practice, to catch and punish deserters.

At the end if you were lucky to make it out alive(but it was not that more dangerous than living a civilian life, life was brutal anyway) you were granted citizenship, and if you did not squander your pay and loot share you would have been able to return your ancestral home and buy some land

 

[Nostalgium]

Go tell the soldiers yourself! they are not risking their lives only for the coin, you promised them citizenship!

Alright, make more than 1 year. If less than 1 year they do not assimilate.

(I am thinking on armies between 3K to 15K that represent 2-10 POPS max?)

Did some quick googling, and...

"After serving an enlistment of 25 years, the retiring auxiliary soldier was granted Roman citizenship."

Presumably that means they had to serve similar terms as regular Legionaires (16 years + 4 as reserves, later 20+5) to gain their citizen rights.

EDIT:
Maybe you could tie it to the ability to raise Auxillary Legions from non-integrated cultures, with limited troop types based on culture group, and different modifiers than a standard Legion?

EDIT 2:
Maybe the default "Legion Distinction" honour could be swapped for an Auxillary Legion one - so long as the Legion was raised, the home territory gets a +0.1 flat assimilation modifier, but only non-primary culture pops count towards the Legion size.

 

[Mr. Wiggles]

Did some quick googling, and...

"After serving an enlistment of 25 years, the retiring auxiliary soldier was granted Roman citizenship."

Presumably that means they had to serve similar terms as regular Legionaires (16 years + 4 as reserves, later 20+5) to gain their citizen rights.

EDIT:
Maybe you could tie it to the ability to raise Auxillary Legions from non-integrated cultures, with limited troop types based on culture group, and different modifiers than a standard Legion?

EDIT 2:
Maybe the default "Legion Distinction" honour could be swapped for an Auxillary Legion one - so long as the Legion was raised, the home territory gets a +0.1 flat assimilation modifier, but only non-primary culture pops count towards the Legion size.

That's actually a very good idea, I like it

 

[dunka2]

It could be cultural right you can grant to particular groups at the cost of stability, military tradition, and integrated pop happiness. This would provide a soft limit to how many groups you can give it too and balance the benefit I feel.

 

[Bovrick]

Tying in Regional auxiliaries associated with subject states and/or unintegrated Cultures does feel like the natural extension.

Integration speed is a woefully underused aspect of the system at the moment. It goes by so quickly that the associated events and debuffs are a bit pointless. It would be good to see more active ways to manage a longer term process, and pulling Pops of that type into military service should be a key component.

 

[Mr. Wiggles]

It could be cultural right you can grant to particular groups at the cost of stability, military tradition, and integrated pop happiness. This would provide a soft limit to how many groups you can give it too and balance the benefit I feel.

I'd see this solution more fitting for standard empires that are not Rome.
Keep in my mind that this innovation and post were meant specifically for Rome.
They did have a different approach than greeks or persians.

Imho some important cultures like the greek or roman should have special integration mechanics. Hellenization and Romanization were different and had different outcomes.
It is worth nothing that tge institution of romanization and citizenship was a consequence, an adaptation to a spontaneous phenomenon rather than a cause or the end itself.